Trailer Life ATS article

[illflem]

Originally posted by rrausch

Moderators, why do you allow this?

Robert, because if we close down/edit threads members complain about censorship. As long as there are no personal attacks or slander I see no problem with the subject drifting off course. They are just opinions, everyone's got one.

 

[pwr2tow]

I think it is great we can all come on a site and debate about a product, censorship has no place in a paid membership. The problem lays within when a vendor or company spokes person comes on and starts in along on the debate. Ever seen how the threads go after a company spokes person has been on the board, it takes off like everyone got a shot of adrenalene. The guys from company Z now have a spokes person in their corner and everything they say is gospel according to them. The spokes person from company Z sits back and laughs at everyone because now his product is getting all the attention and if he interjects careful marketing tac tics it can be nothing but good for his company, free advertiseing, at this point we have all lost because the ideas are not always kosher, the product can be described in many ways which leads one to interject their own sence of well being, the guys promoting the product are makeing themselves look rediculous, while everyone else sits on the side lines wondering what is right and what is wrong with the end results of the company Z walking away looking favorable because why would anyone promote a product that they don't have faith in.



Advertiseing is for marketing not freedom of speach on a paid membership. The TDR has places for people to promote their products, we do not need them in general discussions. Companies should stay in the advertiseing part of our paid subscription forum. Companies should stay out of the discussion part of our forums. Companies should be allowed to introduce a new product and then you go do your research by calling them or going to their web site.



Companies should be allowed to help us make wise decisions but not promote their products. When I first joined the TDR this was an unwritten rule and all the good vendors, company spokes persons followed it. Since then they were hounded by one company relentlessly with obscour questions so one by one they left. Even the ones that had no products of the one that did all the tanting left because they felt it was rediculous to be treated that way.



When was the last time you seen a spokesperson from TST, BD, ATS, Suncoastconverters, Edge Products, Janetty racing, and a host of others I can not remember right now help us in general discussions. The information I received from these other companies far out weighed anything I could learn from one company and all we have left is one company because the administrator and moderators let it happen.



Sorry to rant so long I had to get it off my chest.



Ron



EDIT:: Changed the word (anyone) to (spokesperson) in last paragraph.

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

Yeah, I know I have too much time on my hands. Reading this thread got me curious and I checked out the number of posters, posts, and transmission affiliation (checked the profiles).



The score card to date (including this post) is:



ATS: 3 posters, 15 posts

BD: 1 poster, 14 posts

DTT: 11 posters, 17 posts

5 speed: 1 poster, 1 post

unknown: 3 posters, 5 posts



I offer no conclusions, just the count observation.

 

[SlyBones]

Well ya know what I find interesting, is Snow Man's original post did not pick on ATS. It questioned earthroamer's motives ( my interpretation ). Then a few came and defended Earthroamer, which seems reasonable. The first people to actually start bashing and attacking a group of people, are the same one that are sitting here at the end asking the moderators how this could happen.

 

[TDRadmin]

Thread Edited

I am very sorry, but I had to delete about 20 posts on this thread. Some of those deleted were OK, but they no longer made sense after others had been cut.



I also deleted some actual material within a few posts, but each deletion has been noted.



No "edits" of material were made.



I can only speak for myself, but these transmission threads could be very informative IF ONLY THE CHEERLEADING AND BADGERING (or perhaps I should say cheerleadERS and badgerERS would shut up).



By the way, I've never seen so many soapboxes out in one place. For example, you'll never agree on (or actually be able to enforce) the policy, "all those who are sponsored must disclose. " Sorry, it won't happen. Not a perfect world. I'd bet five folks in a room couldn't even agree on the definition of "sponsored. " Is it worth the debate? Who knows.



Continue on, but stay on topic.



Stay technical.



And QUIT, I mean QUIT attacking those who oppose you or simply hold another opinion.



Later gators! And have fun.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by Boldt's Wagon

Yeah, I know I have too much time on my hands. Reading this thread got me curious and I checked out the number of posters, posts, and transmission affiliation (checked the profiles).



The score card to date (including this post) is:



ATS: 3 posters, 15 posts

BD: 1 poster, 14 posts

DTT: 11 posters, 17 posts

5 speed: 1 poster, 1 post

unknown: 3 posters, 5 posts



I offer no conclusions, just the count observation.

Great post BW. I think that just about sums it up.

 

[Snow man]

Slybones,I am in full agreement with you. I havent even see the article yet. I didnt bash anyone or put ATS down at all,just a question of motive. I just put 2 and 2 together.

 

[pwr2tow]

No matter how much the dog pack wants to diminish the situation they are the first ones to come on and disrupt a thread that was started by an ATS supporter.



Not affiliated with any company, and I buy BD parts.



Ron

 

[MCrossley]

Originally posted by Chipstien

Great post BW. I think that just about sums it up.

You know I have been silent for a couple years since I got tired of the arguments but being unemployed I have recently had a little time to read some and write some I agree that a lot of times these threads head off topic I would also like to point out that the funny thing is that there seems to be one person in particular (who I am not going to mention names) seems to be right there ready to argue against the DTT owners although he says we start the arguments. I read this post as a question about EarthRoamer which I think is a valid question but yet it got turned into this ******* match between ATS and DTT owners by a person who seems to do this on any forum made availble in regards to transmissions I also find it very interesting that there is only 3 ATS posters to 11 DTT I wonder why only 3? Oh well back to work got to do something productive. By the way I payed full price for my transmission when DTT first came on the market and being screwed by BD that was the logical choice; here I am almost 3 years later and I don't care about the polotics I still think I have the best transmission for my application I do not put down ATS or their transmissions if they work Great then everyones happy.

 

[Bob Wagner]

welcome back mike

 

[pwr2tow]

Originally posted by MCrossley

I also find it very interesting that there is only 3 ATS posters to 11 DTT I wonder why only 3?

Since this was a thread letting ATS people and anyone else interested know about an article writen on the ATS transmission subject... . I also find it interesting that there is according to your figures 11 DTT feather ruffles to 3 ATS supporters. I guess it shows who likes to argue and who takes a more civil stance about such issues. By the way I buy bd-power parts and love them.



Ron

 

[Edward]

Hey guys can we lighten it up some. Or is it everyone's intent to have yet another transmission thread closed down? We all know what the outcome will be if the discussion continues on it's present course. Lets have lively and spirited debate with out the personal innuendos and out right mud slinging. No one needs a strike. Just a thought, take it for what it's worth.



Edward

 

[BFC]

Full contact transmission threads!! That's what we need! Wonder what it is about auto's that makes everybody go nuts? Must be something in ATF fluid that affects judgement, LOL!

 

[MCrossley]

BFC I know what you mean but I would be willing to put money on it (not that I have any) that these discussions would not be half of that if it were in person some people say a lot more behind a keyboard than in real world contact; and as some know in pasts times that I stand behind what I say in person as well as behind the keyboard. Edward no mud slinging from me I have stated my opinion and I am not arguing with anyone.

 

[JR2]

I think this whole discussion happened a long time back... . click here to see how it went last time. I think its very interesting to see the differences in the two threads.



From my viewpoint if you are getting stuff for free then you are compromised in some way. That does not mean you don't have valid points to make and that you should not be allowed to make them, just that I don't have to believe you. There are sponsored guys on here that I trust and there are sponsored guys that I don't trust. The same is true for the normal members.



With that said I tend to listen to the guys who walk the walk, not the guys who just talk the talk... . as you know its one thing to say a transmission will hold 17 billion ft/lbs of torque and its another to have more than one truck running over 700 hp and 1200 ft/lbs of tq. on the road every day.



Remember this is my opnion and just like your opnion it could be wrong.





as a side note, welcome back to the board MCrossley, wish you where here under better circumstances but it sure is nice to see some of the "older members" back.

 

[Edward]

MCrossley



No need to deny any personal accusations because none were made. Everything is up and in the open and we get to decide for our selves who is doing what. My intent was to change the course of the debate. I hope it works, time will tell.



Edward

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by JR2



From my viewpoint if you are getting stuff for free then you are compromised in some way. That does not mean you don't have valid points to make and that you should not be allowed to make them, just that I don't have to believe you. There are sponsored guys on here that I trust and there are sponsored guys that I don't trust. The same is true for the normal members.

JR2

I am in an agreement with you but I add another group you didn't mention. Installers/dealers or guys selling the stuff they are promoting. If someone is telling me why X is bad and he sells Y then I want to know that up front. If it is not disclosed and I find out he is running down X product to steer me to what he sells well sorry my wallet just snapped closed and for him/her it will stay that way. If a person is telling me how great this gizmo is and why I need it then at the end of the conversation I find out he or she now wants to sell me one, the same would be true. I will not deal with those types of people to me it is a breach of integrity. I will use your term they are compromised. Being compromised is not a bad thing. When I talk to a sails person at the truck dealership I know this person wants to get inside my wallet and they are compromised. Not a bad thing to know if you know it up front. Will I talk to them? Will I consider what they say? Yes to both questions. Will I filter what they say? Darn right I will. There are too many up front and honest people out there to spend my time, money and energy dealing with businessmen and women who lack integrity.



Edward

 

[MCrossley]

Thanks JR2 I appreciate the welcome back, yeah not many of us old timers left most of us left because of the bickering on this board for more than the transmission threads but I also tend to still enjoy seeing whats going on in here, after all you could be a member of the Ford group and the new 6. o PSD right? So as I like to say things could be worse...

 

[pwr2tow]

I truly don't believe there are any transmission war threads, I think it all comes down to one company trying to persuade everyone on the TDR to buy their products.



I have no problem with a company telling us about a product but that's where they should leave it, just tell us and go, don't sit on this paid membership site and drill us to no end about something. It begins to look more like free advertising and that is not what the TDR is about. If someone wants advertising go to the advertising section and pay for it along with everyone else.



As far as parts go I don't care who's parts anyone use's, I am not a firm believer in anyones parts as all parts are man made and will break with enough stress or time. I really could care less if anyone uses bd-power parts. I really could care less if bd-power went out of business. What I do care about is new members coming on this site and being subjected to one sided selling techniques from one company. If the members who say they care the most about the other members would give open information on a variety of makers of the same parts then I think any thread war could be avoided. I have done this in just about every thread where someone asks for information about a product, yet I do not see it coming from one select group on the TDR.



This is my opinion, and like farts, some stink and some don't.



Ron

 

[Wayno]

Originally posted by Bob Wagner

the TL article is basically the same swails printup that was in the TDR magazine.



nothing new except Bill is now driving a Ferd

Hey Bob W. do you know how well Bill's new Ferd is holding up . Better than a friend of mine's 2002 4x4 is holding up I hope . He went through three transmission's before he had 10,000 miles on it and he had never pull a trailer with the truck . I told him not to buy that d@m old Ferd .