Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) transfer case???????????

[b.ferrara]

question about transfer case, have done alot of work to truck. I had the transmission done by Dan from quad 4x4 out in Montana, and it's finally right. I have a slipping feel but only in 2 and 4 high not 4 low. Just a little slip once in awhile but in the past starts out just like now and progressively gets worse. I think its the transfer case but could it be something else?

 

[rattle trap]

there really isnt anything to slip in your transfer case.

lemme run this theory by you and you can see if you like it or not.

in high range you have a 1:1 ratio in the t case so transmission and diff are your only gear reduction. in low range you have extra gear reduction so there is less load on the transmission.

what im getting at is i believe you are experiencing the very early stages of transmission slippage, possibly something as simple as a sticking valve body.

sound feasible/logical to you?

 

[b.ferrara]

its a 5 speed not an auto, I hope its not the transmission don't want to have to go trough that again

 

[rattle trap]

my apologies.



so how new is the clutch? is the flywheel new as well?



i know it sounds horrible, but the transfer case doesnt have clutches to slip.



without any speculation or personal guessing, what is the exact situation and complaint? i dont want to underestimate you, just making sure that the slip you notice isnt something else, and to get an idea of the conditions surrounding the issue.



am i understanding correctly that it is only seeming to slip from a stop? is it everytime? do you use 1st gear?



is this problem only recently noticed or every since the install?

 

[b.ferrara]

when I bought the truck it was doing it, I drove the truck for 3k before fixing it. It steadily got worse, when i had it fixed I was told it was the transmission, it was great for about 8k and started again, then was told transfer case, had it done and 11k started again. went to somebody else to have it done right and that turned out to be a big mistake, anyway I've done the transmission twice the transfer case twice and the rear. Ive been driving every day for the last week and haven't noticed it, but it was doeing it when first finished, just driving along and little shutter or slip, clutch is new pro gold. Only thing not new is front diff.

 

[b.ferrara]

I really dont think its the transmission, the local guy did it once for me then I had it done by somebody i thought was going to solve problem and then sent it to Montana to have it done right, it has to be something else.

 

[b.ferrara]

it onyl does it in 2high and 4high never 4 low, I'm out of guesses I have no clue anymore at what it might be. its a beautiful truck and i have too much in it to get rid of it. To set up a new truck with my mods would cost me big money.

 

[rattle trap]

so if the clutch is new, it could easily just be the clutch breaking in or bedding.



was the flywheel resurfaced or replaced?



like i mentioned before your transfer case axles and driveshaft have nothing inside to slip or chatter.



and in low, some of the pressure is taken off the clutch.



so with your further background information, this might just have been the clutch breaking in. just like replacing brake pads. at first they squeek and slip a little until they bed in with the machined surface.

 

[CumminsPower98]

I'm wondering if you might actually be feeling a driveline shudder from a u-joint problem or the driveline angles are off a little. If something really is slipping then the clutch is the only part in the system that can slip, as posted before.

 

[b.ferrara]

thanks for the replies, I'm going to drive it and see what happens, hoprfully it'll be the clutch working itself in.

 

[rattle trap]

hey b ferrara, i understand the discomfort to even think such a thing could be the issue after spending money time and effort to fix this before.



i didnt notice a specific mileage since the last repair. if it is under 1000-2500 i wouldnt be too worried. if you re over that, its beyond normal expected break in times.



it seems you have had many issues with the same thing. i am hoping that these shops are resurfacing/replacing your flywheel. a glazed/warped flywheel+ new clutch is counter productive.



im not a diesel 5 speed guy but i know with my gas powered cars, flywheel service is part of any clutch job.



so if you re still low miles, you might be ok.

 

[b.ferrara]

OK! too everyone thats been watching this thread, it's still doing it. I've had the truck 5 years and it's never been good for more than 6 months or 11k miles at one time. I bought the truck with this problem, had a local guy fix it, it was good for about 8k then started again, re-built under warranty, started right away,he told me transfer case, fixed that about 11k started again. Decided to go to a guy in Jersey who I got from TDR, put new transmission and transfer case and clutch, started about 200 miles later, had the transmission under warranty from blumenthals shipped to quad 4x4 and had the torque king or whatever its called put in, shipped to me installed and started immediately.

I just had truck out for ride, definately not right, feels and sounds like slip and bang, could it be the transmission again? like i said only 2 & 4 high not 4 low.

any ideas let me know, thanks in advance Bill

 

[b.ferrara]

oh yeah, I even put a new set of gears in the rear.

 

[SRath]

"I have a slipping feel ... "



Is this "feel" like an automatic beginning to slip? Please expand on what this "feel" is like. It has been repeatedly said here, but the ONLY thing in your driveline that can "slip" is your clutch. The rest is all gear and chain (t-case) driven. If it is your clutch, you should be able to smell it and you should have seen signs of slippage (burn/hot spots on your flywheel and disc and pressure plate) when you installed the quad4x4 nv4500.



You did replace or have the flywheel correctly resurfaced, didn't you?Some shops resurface flywheels incorrectly using the wrong machine. I never knew this before buying a Southbend Clutch. For better info on this, contact Southbend Clutch. They are very specific about how a flywheel should be prepared for use with one of their clutches.



I have tried to think of a scenario where even slight pressure could somehow inadvertantly be applied to your hydraulic clutch linkage and throwout bearing without it coming from your left foot, but none come to mind.



You do drive with your left foot flat on the floor, don't you? Too many people rest their foot lightly on the clutch pedal and that is bad. Same thing goes for resting your right hand on your shifter.



The lightest pressure on the pedal will cause your throwout bearing to ride on your pressure plate fingers. The lightest pressure on the shifter handle will cause premature shift fork wear for the same reason. You have a huge leverage advantage.

 

[b.ferrara]

I never rest my foot on pedal, always on floor. Clutch is not burning, it does feel like an auto beginning to slip but then it makes a noise like someone is banging the side of the transmission with a sledge hammer. I can't believe it's still doing it, it's the same thing every time, good for a little while and then starts again. It's like the whole shaft is just sliding back and forth inside the transmission.

The only thing i didn't re-do yet is the front diff which should be turning in 2wd anyway. I was thinging this morning about it being a plow truck, 4 low and 4th and plow the driveway. Really a shame, its such a nice truck other than the driveline except for the motor of course

 

[b.ferrara]

I need to find someone who really knows these trucks and can figure it out.

 

[rattle trap]

there are certain coincidences which are confusing you like the fact slip isnt noticed in 4low.



WHO physically installed the transmission and clutch back up into your truck?



said it before, ill mention it again. they likely didnt properly prepare the flywheel. its like installing new brake pads on a warped/pitted/glazed brake rotor.



i dont know cummins clutches since my trucks are and always will be auto. but i do know a bit about cars with flywheels and know that many call for different specs. some need to have a ridge machined in, others require specific finishes, and ALL require a flat, true, CLEAN mating surface.



the banging noise does throw me off.

 

[SRath]

Well, b. ferra, the only thing that fits that description would be a t-case chain slipping on the gears. But I would think it should have grenaded by now if it were that stretched! Maybe the gear teeth are sheared and the chain does not even jump... just slips? That would also explain the problem only being in HI range if it is the HI gear that is stripped. You better get that t-case to a good shop asap! Have you checked the oil in it for chunks and metal filings?

 

[rattle trap]

Well, b. ferra, the only thing that fits that description would be a t-case chain slipping on the gears. But I would think it should have grenaded by now if it were that stretched! Maybe the gear teeth are sheared and the chain does not even jump... just slips? That would also explain the problem only being in HI range if it is the HI gear that is stripped. You better get that t-case to a good shop asap! Have you checked the oil in it for chunks and metal filings?

he said it also happens in 2wd. im not so familiar with the 241, but i do believe they use a plantary gear set which handles both ranges? or am i wrong. also i was under the assumption the 241 only uses 1 chain, meaning a bad chain affects both ranges of 4x4.



id still say the slip just isnt noticed in low since 2. 72x the load is taken off the clutch. bet it would slip in low 4th or low 5th.

 

[SRath]

It's the "bang" he describes in his last description that leads me to believe the chain may be slipping on the gears somehow. Clutches may slip, but they don't go "bang!".



You are probably entirely correct about the 241's inner workings; I'm an NP205 man all the way and have never had any interest or experience with chain-drive t-cases. I'm "rebuilding" my own 241 by replacing it with an NP205. Chains and aluminum cases are for motorcycles IMO.



If it were my truck, with a new "everything" between the t-case and cummins, especially since the transmission was rebuilt by one of the best there is, I would definitely be looking inside that t-case given his serious symptoms.