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Standard Transmission in Ft Worth has the proper oil for your trans for 54 dollars per gallon (the proper amount, BTW)
It is called Castrol Syntorq. I would advise using it and not other types or brands. Some guys are having luck with other synthetics.
Syntorq is a synthetic too.
The transfer case uses ATF. The plus 3 is fine.
Don~
It is called Castrol Syntorq. I would advise using it and not other types or brands. Some guys are having luck with other synthetics.
Syntorq is a synthetic too.
The transfer case uses ATF. The plus 3 is fine.
Don~
Been using Royal Purple MaxGear 75W90 for the last 100,000 miles on my 96. My truck has 135,000 and still has the original 5 gear without any mods. The oil is a full synthetic high performance gearoil rated for both API GL-4 and GL-5 applications. Retail price is 8. 99 per quart. I also use it in my racecar under very high temperatures and speeds and it works great. Tech information should be available at www.royalpurple.com.
Where it's available online can be found at their retail website which is www.synerlec.com. The "where available list" should come up if you click on the online store section. I want to say Jegs Performance parts and Carparts.com offer it online. Some Napa stores and other performance shops.
I know Hammer, but I can't help it!
Amsoil Series 2000 75w-90 has been proving itself quite well in these transmissions for years.
It is easy too find, and can be bought for under $10 a qt.
When the dealership finds out what to use, they will charge you over $20 a qt,and insist,"this is the ONLY lube you can use"
They will be wrong.
Check out my sig, this has been a topic for debate for sometime. \
Gene
Amsoil Series 2000 75w-90 has been proving itself quite well in these transmissions for years.
It is easy too find, and can be bought for under $10 a qt.
When the dealership finds out what to use, they will charge you over $20 a qt,and insist,"this is the ONLY lube you can use"
They will be wrong.
Check out my sig, this has been a topic for debate for sometime. \
Gene
If you read the little sticker on the side of the transmission it will say to use the Syntorq only or risk the warranty being voided. Many reputable transmission rebuilders will tell you to use Syntorq. The manufacturer tells us to use Syntorq.
Standard Transmision (the guys that rebuilt mine recently) recommend Syntorq as well.
Heat is the big factor in the NV4500 trans and the Syntorq is great at keeping it in check.
Tests have shown that many of the other synthetics have heated up faster than Syntorq.
MGM, if you would like to send me down some Amsoil I will bear the cost of a dyno test with both the Syntorq and the Amsoil. I will install a temp gauge in the transmission and we will see which one heats up faster once and for all. If the Amsoil is better at keeping the heat in check I will be the first to admit it. Whatcha say?
Don~
Standard Transmision (the guys that rebuilt mine recently) recommend Syntorq as well.
Heat is the big factor in the NV4500 trans and the Syntorq is great at keeping it in check.
Tests have shown that many of the other synthetics have heated up faster than Syntorq.
MGM, if you would like to send me down some Amsoil I will bear the cost of a dyno test with both the Syntorq and the Amsoil. I will install a temp gauge in the transmission and we will see which one heats up faster once and for all. If the Amsoil is better at keeping the heat in check I will be the first to admit it. Whatcha say?
Don~
You might want to call Amsoil in advance though and clear it with them. They may not like the idea to much
If you willing to put your product up against the so called higher priced oil in a heat test on the dyno I am willing to put the money up for the temp sender and installation time. Matter of fact, I will leave this old junky, worn out, Syntorq in there for the test. Drain it out and put in your brand new, lower priced, Amsoil and see which can take the heat or should I say, make the heat?
Don~
If you willing to put your product up against the so called higher priced oil in a heat test on the dyno I am willing to put the money up for the temp sender and installation time. Matter of fact, I will leave this old junky, worn out, Syntorq in there for the test. Drain it out and put in your brand new, lower priced, Amsoil and see which can take the heat or should I say, make the heat?
Don~
Thanks for the offer Don!
AND IF KWIK KURT SENDS ME A B-1 TURBO, I'LL TEST IT FOR HIM ON THE PULLING TRACK TOO! LOL!
I don't ned you to do any "testing" though, I have all I need.
Trying to test transmission lube drag on a dyno is joke after reading Joe's article.
If you have been reading the dynos threads, we can't even agree that dynos are acurate testing horsepower, let alone something as close as this.
Joe's tests showed me the drag and heat were virtually the same, not that there was a clear winner.
Your "tests" may show that other syns heat up a hair faster, but it does NOT show what lube will be there for the long haul. I have seen with my own eyes that the Castrol is NOT a 100,000 mile,or 'LIFETIME" lube as the MANUFACTORER calls it!
There are many things to consider when you pick a lube. Not just one test.
And BTW, Enterprise Engine, we all know their record in high performance Dodge parts,the shop who rebuilt mine, switched to Amsoil after they saw mine compared to all the others they had done.
So we have companies that make their living selling rebuilt trannys, Dodge who is making 200% profit on the oil vs, a company that owns two of the most powerful trucks on the planet, and ABUSES them.
I'll stick with the track/road tests/real world tests.
If we start splitting hairs on what DODGE tells us to do/not to do, this entire membership will be driving STOCK trucks!
I BOMBed my truck, and I BOMBEd the lubricants!
Do a search if you want more details, I'm not wasting my time typing it all agin.
Gene
AND IF KWIK KURT SENDS ME A B-1 TURBO, I'LL TEST IT FOR HIM ON THE PULLING TRACK TOO! LOL!
I don't ned you to do any "testing" though, I have all I need.
Trying to test transmission lube drag on a dyno is joke after reading Joe's article.
If you have been reading the dynos threads, we can't even agree that dynos are acurate testing horsepower, let alone something as close as this.
Joe's tests showed me the drag and heat were virtually the same, not that there was a clear winner.
Your "tests" may show that other syns heat up a hair faster, but it does NOT show what lube will be there for the long haul. I have seen with my own eyes that the Castrol is NOT a 100,000 mile,or 'LIFETIME" lube as the MANUFACTORER calls it!
There are many things to consider when you pick a lube. Not just one test.
And BTW, Enterprise Engine, we all know their record in high performance Dodge parts,the shop who rebuilt mine, switched to Amsoil after they saw mine compared to all the others they had done.
So we have companies that make their living selling rebuilt trannys, Dodge who is making 200% profit on the oil vs, a company that owns two of the most powerful trucks on the planet, and ABUSES them.
I'll stick with the track/road tests/real world tests.
If we start splitting hairs on what DODGE tells us to do/not to do, this entire membership will be driving STOCK trucks!
I BOMBed my truck, and I BOMBEd the lubricants!
Do a search if you want more details, I'm not wasting my time typing it all agin.
Gene
Hammer
TDR MEMBER
Got to love someone whose so brainwashed that they only believe DC on this,,I myself do not care how many transmissions Standard has rebuilt or the fact they inform you(or show you)that improper lubes have done it,,Gets tiring to see that all you can do is blame"improper lubes" on their NOTED poor design of the NV4500,,One thing is for sure,when applying more than stock hp and torque to a transmission thats rated for alot less I myself only want the best protecting it,,I agree with MGM on your "dyno test" it will prove nothing,,For those who understand AMSOIL and its proven performance and quality,no explanation is needed,For those who continually criticize their product with no basis to back it up,no more explanations will be given.....
Hey Gene-Maybe Don will send you his address and we can send him a "I support John Force" graphic for his truck.....
Hey Gene-Maybe Don will send you his address and we can send him a "I support John Force" graphic for his truck.....
Dern, I was hoping to finally put the arguement to rest.
I still have a few questions though.
Where is the big savings, in dollars, to the consumer to use the Amsoil over the Syntorq? Syntorq is 54 bucks a gallon. Amsoil is roughly 40 bucks a gallon. Is 14 bucks the big dollar difference in price you guys are preaching? Castrol has all this money to freely give to John Force from Syntorq sales?
Dynos may not load the engine and drivetrain like the road would, that I agree. How else could you keep the tests the same?
Driving on the road could never be duplicated easily. Traffic, stop light timing, etc. is always different. The oils on the dyno would be subjected to the same stresses. This way we have controlled testing.
Im of the opinion that the Amsoil will heat up faster and exceed the safe limits of the transmission design. Rheologically the Amsoil is not close enough to the Castrol Syntorq. The climbing and/or clinging properties of the Amsoil does not allow it to adhere to the gears. Remember the NV4500 is splash lubricated.
Would the Amsoil require the truck to be moving around to splash the oil around during cornering?
Do either of you really feel that DC is making a ton of money from oil sales? That position sounds kinda dim to me.
I still feel the dyno test would show which lubricant would heat up faster under controlled conditions. I have a good feeling the Amsoil will fail miserably at controlling heat.
Gene, your Syntorq could have been contaminated from all sorts of things. You, of all people should know that. I do agree that Syntorq or any oil should not be left in for 100,000 miles.
You are quite the salesman it seems. If Enterprise went to using Amsoil for the NV4500 after just seeing the condition of your oil alone, you are truly the best salsman I have known.
Hammer, the term brainwashed is applicable to both you and Gene as well on the Amsoil. You ignore the heat tests and HP drag tests from Joe under controlled conditions. The FACT that the manufacturer of the transmission, rebuilders, DC all say to use the Syntorq. New Venture Gear wrote a spec for transmission oil and the Castrol meets the spec. Now whos really brainwashed?
Me, the guy who has nothing to gain from the sale of Castrol? Or Gene and you who sell Amsoil?
You are one of Genes dealers correct? You know, the guy who gets the stuff a tad cheaper that is under the guy who signed him up, who is under the guy who signed him up, and on and on. Like building a tetrahedron or pyramid
Lets test the oil and see which one can provide the protection we need.
Don~
I still have a few questions though.
Where is the big savings, in dollars, to the consumer to use the Amsoil over the Syntorq? Syntorq is 54 bucks a gallon. Amsoil is roughly 40 bucks a gallon. Is 14 bucks the big dollar difference in price you guys are preaching? Castrol has all this money to freely give to John Force from Syntorq sales?
Dynos may not load the engine and drivetrain like the road would, that I agree. How else could you keep the tests the same?
Driving on the road could never be duplicated easily. Traffic, stop light timing, etc. is always different. The oils on the dyno would be subjected to the same stresses. This way we have controlled testing.
Im of the opinion that the Amsoil will heat up faster and exceed the safe limits of the transmission design. Rheologically the Amsoil is not close enough to the Castrol Syntorq. The climbing and/or clinging properties of the Amsoil does not allow it to adhere to the gears. Remember the NV4500 is splash lubricated.
Would the Amsoil require the truck to be moving around to splash the oil around during cornering?
Do either of you really feel that DC is making a ton of money from oil sales? That position sounds kinda dim to me.
I still feel the dyno test would show which lubricant would heat up faster under controlled conditions. I have a good feeling the Amsoil will fail miserably at controlling heat.
Gene, your Syntorq could have been contaminated from all sorts of things. You, of all people should know that. I do agree that Syntorq or any oil should not be left in for 100,000 miles.
You are quite the salesman it seems. If Enterprise went to using Amsoil for the NV4500 after just seeing the condition of your oil alone, you are truly the best salsman I have known.
Hammer, the term brainwashed is applicable to both you and Gene as well on the Amsoil. You ignore the heat tests and HP drag tests from Joe under controlled conditions. The FACT that the manufacturer of the transmission, rebuilders, DC all say to use the Syntorq. New Venture Gear wrote a spec for transmission oil and the Castrol meets the spec. Now whos really brainwashed?
Me, the guy who has nothing to gain from the sale of Castrol? Or Gene and you who sell Amsoil?
You are one of Genes dealers correct? You know, the guy who gets the stuff a tad cheaper that is under the guy who signed him up, who is under the guy who signed him up, and on and on. Like building a tetrahedron or pyramid
Lets test the oil and see which one can provide the protection we need.
Don~
Tran's fluid
The lube you use/hype could effect your cash flow +/- depending which end of the chain your on!!!
Now why would syntorq be high in price?? lets think about it. .
NV wanted a lube to work in there product,with the metals used and contact mfg's and said what do you have,then there are test that need to be run(lab work/R&D) these cost have to be recop'ed, All parties want a profit out the door(mark up). Now
If we change something in our research(R&D) we have a nother product to market that may do the job which sell's over the counter under a different name and classifaction for $$ less per qt/fill.
Do we suppose that is why i have 0ver 700k on syntec (made by the same mfr) which i installed at 4k(flush of all fluids front to back to rcmove mfg particales) and still have oem bearings,and clutchpacks in place???? Now if you read the grade on the lable one is G4 the other 5... simple additive multiplication. .
The last time i bought a case it was $7 per gt??? 4 x 7 = ??
I do use a non over the counter eng oil which if sold over the counter would run 12-13 $ or thru a dist system as am's or higher
I due use there rear end lube 85w90 and would put it in the transmission but know there GL5 would cause the deposits which doesnt happen in the case of a fuller /eaton transmission.
Nothing like a real world test$$$...
The lube you use/hype could effect your cash flow +/- depending which end of the chain your on!!!
Now why would syntorq be high in price?? lets think about it. .
NV wanted a lube to work in there product,with the metals used and contact mfg's and said what do you have,then there are test that need to be run(lab work/R&D) these cost have to be recop'ed, All parties want a profit out the door(mark up). Now
If we change something in our research(R&D) we have a nother product to market that may do the job which sell's over the counter under a different name and classifaction for $$ less per qt/fill.
Do we suppose that is why i have 0ver 700k on syntec (made by the same mfr) which i installed at 4k(flush of all fluids front to back to rcmove mfg particales) and still have oem bearings,and clutchpacks in place???? Now if you read the grade on the lable one is G4 the other 5... simple additive multiplication. .
The last time i bought a case it was $7 per gt??? 4 x 7 = ??
I do use a non over the counter eng oil which if sold over the counter would run 12-13 $ or thru a dist system as am's or higher
I due use there rear end lube 85w90 and would put it in the transmission but know there GL5 would cause the deposits which doesnt happen in the case of a fuller /eaton transmission.
Nothing like a real world test$$$...
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
I'm wondering how you know the Amsoil product,(gear lube)does not have the "clinging" properties to adhere to the gears? Also, I thought all standard transmissions use a "splash" type oiling system. I don't think any of them have a pump, do they?
As I reacall reading some time back, Amsoil was the first manufacturer to put a synthetic gear lube on the market, I beleive it was in 1978 sometime. Do you not think they (Amsoil) would not have tested their products for "clinging" and "lubricating" properties?My 2 cents worth
Amsoil user for over twenty years!
Wayne
Wayne,
You and Gene have something in common. You both feel the Amsoil will work in the NV4500 and you both sell it. Geeeesh!
Would you like to send the oil for a controlled test on the dyno?
I would sit down and eat a big plate of crow if I am found to be wrong about the heat problems associated with Amsoil in the NV4500.
Is the ZF trans in the Ford using a pump to move oil around?
Don~
You and Gene have something in common. You both feel the Amsoil will work in the NV4500 and you both sell it. Geeeesh!
Would you like to send the oil for a controlled test on the dyno?
I would sit down and eat a big plate of crow if I am found to be wrong about the heat problems associated with Amsoil in the NV4500.
Is the ZF trans in the Ford using a pump to move oil around?
Don~
Question
I have a question on this... .
Since the series 2000 75W90 was put on the market AFTER the NVG4500, does anyone know if it was intended by Amsoil to be suitable for the transmission?
I see a potential difference between this oil and some others since it came out after the transmission did vice before.
Just another angle.
I have a question on this... .
Since the series 2000 75W90 was put on the market AFTER the NVG4500, does anyone know if it was intended by Amsoil to be suitable for the transmission?
I see a potential difference between this oil and some others since it came out after the transmission did vice before.
Just another angle.
Amsoil is intended for everything if you go by what they say. The word "Universal" is used by them frequently.
Universal ATF. Universal this and Universal that.
One size fits all. Its quite an incredible collection of products according to them.
Amsoil has never said the additives in their oil wont harm the yellow metals. Not outright anyway. The salesmen will tell ya its not harmfull.
Torco states outright the yellow metals and composite parts in the NV4500 will not harmed by their oil.
Further, the Amsoil is not close enough rheologically to the Syntorq to be considered an alternative.
Standard Transmission has rebuilt thousands of these transmission for guys that use their trucks to HOT-SHOT loads all over the country. Standard has tried other lubricants to get away from the higher cost of Syntorq in the past with terrible results. Results they had to cover under warranty. They have the cost of the Syntorq down to 54 bucks a gallon. Not the 26 dollars a quart I was paying for it from Dodge.
Oil is cheap compared to the cost of a rebuild. The down time alone is hard for me to take. Use Syntorq and change it more often than the manufactures recommends. Problem solved and no wondering if the Amsoil will slowly eat away at softer transmission parts or run high temps.
Don~
Universal ATF. Universal this and Universal that.
One size fits all. Its quite an incredible collection of products according to them.
Amsoil has never said the additives in their oil wont harm the yellow metals. Not outright anyway. The salesmen will tell ya its not harmfull.
Torco states outright the yellow metals and composite parts in the NV4500 will not harmed by their oil.
Further, the Amsoil is not close enough rheologically to the Syntorq to be considered an alternative.
Standard Transmission has rebuilt thousands of these transmission for guys that use their trucks to HOT-SHOT loads all over the country. Standard has tried other lubricants to get away from the higher cost of Syntorq in the past with terrible results. Results they had to cover under warranty. They have the cost of the Syntorq down to 54 bucks a gallon. Not the 26 dollars a quart I was paying for it from Dodge.
Oil is cheap compared to the cost of a rebuild. The down time alone is hard for me to take. Use Syntorq and change it more often than the manufactures recommends. Problem solved and no wondering if the Amsoil will slowly eat away at softer transmission parts or run high temps.
Don~
I have a standard trans rebuilt unit in my truck. I use syntorq in it. I change transmission oil at 24K miles. I was just trying to see what niche the series 2000 was trying to fill. There are lots of NVG4500s out there in dodge and chevy applications. I was just wondering.
BTW syntorq is not much fun in colder temps.
BTW syntorq is not much fun in colder temps.
controlled test
One thing about the subject they are just that... controlled>>>>the Real world is where we operate. Load(temp/load/driver/dirt/use-abuse/shock/maintance practice)the only one that can be factored in are outside temp. TO a Point.
See a hill--ford--chev--freightliner blow them off the Rock-Three sisters, Grapevine , Flatlands overgrossed ect... .
Clinging lub Pat. 'nt,Pre dated by climbing lube of the 60's just a reclassifactation/add'tv of the package. Or a way to get around a pat (7 years) lic to recop cost and make investers happy.
The heaver of the lube the higher the case heat. Or the nonabilaty of a product to do the job results in high heat/lack of lubericity. You can add pumps and filters and still same result. To say the least of design,case in point Getruge (sp) transmission/know'n for bearing failure,lack of space to provide a high flow of lube to areas with out the additation of a pump . . Unneeded in the case af a NV4500.
One thing about the subject they are just that... controlled>>>>the Real world is where we operate. Load(temp/load/driver/dirt/use-abuse/shock/maintance practice)the only one that can be factored in are outside temp. TO a Point.
See a hill--ford--chev--freightliner blow them off the Rock-Three sisters, Grapevine , Flatlands overgrossed ect... .
Clinging lub Pat. 'nt,Pre dated by climbing lube of the 60's just a reclassifactation/add'tv of the package. Or a way to get around a pat (7 years) lic to recop cost and make investers happy.
The heaver of the lube the higher the case heat. Or the nonabilaty of a product to do the job results in high heat/lack of lubericity. You can add pumps and filters and still same result. To say the least of design,case in point Getruge (sp) transmission/know'n for bearing failure,lack of space to provide a high flow of lube to areas with out the additation of a pump . . Unneeded in the case af a NV4500.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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