Triple Disc VS Single Disc TC

[fleahead]

When considering buying a triple or single disc TC, what advantage does either have. My presumption would be that 3 is better than 1, and it costs more. The shop doing my install recommeded the single. He said he has the single disc in his pulling truck, putting over 1100 lb of torque to it, and has never had a failure. So what would be a circumstance where a triple would be needed?

 

[LSMITH]

I bought a single disk. If you can't hurt it running 700+HP and forcing lockup on the dragstrip how is the average guy going to even challenge it? He isn't. If one will hold anything you ever throw at it what are the other two going to do for you?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

680 hp and 1200+ on T/Q with forced lockups... . are you talking about me



Jim

 

[fox]

Why complicate a torque converter with extra parts that can rattle/brake??

The stock clutch size in these converters is larger in area than the front /rear clutches ( stock ) so if something slips it usually isn't the converter clutch!!!

Just do it with strong fluid coupling and let things work as they are designed.

My truck will scratch the tires witha WOT up shift to 2nd in fluid coupling, I don't want or need to lock the converter to get it to hold the Cummins!!

 

[jwilliams3]

Fleahead,

Which pulling truck is it?



I run a Triplelok converter, no complaints here. I like the extra clutch area a triple provides.

Why do the sled pullers run multiple disk clutches?



--Justin

 

[Snow man]

fleahead,i have a single disc,and its holding over 1200 ft lbs easily. I agree with L Smith . Something to thing about also is the guys running the 3disc,and the single disc with billet front covers seem to have a very high rate of flexplate failures. Keep this in mind. The single disc setup is the best way,IMo for now.

 

[fleahead]

The guy I am dealing with is Rick at R&R Rebuilders, Marietta, OH.

 

[JohnE]

The idea behind a triple disk lockup clutch is to put 100% of the engine power to the rear wheels. For example, 90% efficiency means 10% loss as heat. I think everyone agrees heat is one of the most damaging elements of an automatic transmission system.



I went with a triple disk lockup clutch. It is combined with a good fluid coupling torque converter so the combination works well together. It holds without slipping while in the sweet spots for horsepower and torque which is what I want for daily driving and towing conditions.



My factory torque converter was in very poor condition when it was replaced for the triple disk converter. The lockup clutch material was burned to the point where it did not hold lockup past medium acceleration.

The transmission was actually in very good condition.



Snowman;

Please explain your comment: " Something to thing (sic) about also is the guys running the 3disc,and the single disc with billet front covers seem to have a very high rate of flexplate failures. " ?

I know there are reported flexplate failures, but wasn't aware that it was attributed solely to billet covers?

ANY improperly assembled torque converter will cause problems, be it factory or ANY kind of aftermarket product.

 

[Snow man]

,The triple disc tc's and all billet covered TCs break flexplates quite frequently. This is a fact,it can be proven if you took an honest poll. . The only time the stock style breaks them is in real HP trucks ,like over 700hp. It is common for mildly bombed trucks to break flexplates when running the triple disc tc,or any billet covered TC. The weight of the TC has something to do with it. John, your statement about the triple. disc giving 100% transfer of power is true,but so does the single disc. Again there is no difference,i can accelerate in any gear,any throttle,it never slips,mine is set to lock in 3rd ,and it does not ever slip or do anything but transfer all the power. Like i said its been in my truck for 2 yrs,and my pan is clean when i service it,and its been performing excellent. as for heat,all TC's generate heat out of lockup,that heat is normal and part of the normal operation,as long as your coolers are working,,and you dont sit in gear forever at a stop,its a non issue. I know this may sound wrong,but I think the triple disc tc ,is the fix for a problem that doesnt exist. Like the banks Hi ram,it looks cool,but honestly where is the benefit? It may make you feel better,but is it honestly doing anything for you that the single disc tc isnt. The downsides to the triple and billet covered tc is they cost more,they usually dont have as good a fluid coupling,and the biggest thing is the flexplate issues. This is why i feel the single disc is better.

 

[Jetpilot]

When we talk about converter efficiency and "getting 100% of the power to the ground" please remember that the only time one really wants/needs 100% power to the ground would be when 100% of available throttle has been applied. Also all torque converters supply 100% of the power to the ground when in lockup.



Heat is not normally a problem with a good TC and transmission. The amount of time that a TC is locked vs. unlocked is negligible. Lets say your TC locks in 2nd gear with vendor A and vendor B uses the normal lockup sequence of 3rd gear, how much heat is actually generated by this later lockup sequence of the TC?



The main difference between different manufacturers is the approach to when lockup is applied..... One company believes that fluid coupling saves on undo wear on the transmission and drive train components. The other approach is to apply lockup early with the theory that this is the best.







fleahead



I recommend driving a truck equipped with the different brand TC and transmissions you are considering. You be the judge, in the end you will be the one driving it so get whats best for you. To answer your question on if a single disc TC will hold the power, my truck makes 750+ HP and 1500+ lbs torque and I haven't slipped my TC!



Doug

 

[JohnE]

In my research I didn't find anything on flexplate breakage caused solely by billet covers. As I stated, flex plate damage usually is from out of balance converters. Don't believe me, contact ATI.

Do you have any hard numbers is this another cry wolf tactic?



Something is amiss in the logic that one only needs 100% power to the ground with 100% throttle.

I want it for all throttle conditions and for longer than a ¼ mile or 10 seconds on the dyno.



After seeing a burned up stock converter clutch coupled to a good transmission convinced me more was needed in the TC side.

 

[Snow man]

John, crying wolf? I dont think so,i dont internd to try to convince you here,You havent proved any of the statements you made,other than the obvious ones,that lockup is100%. Your post may lead someone who doesnt know to think i have something less in the way of power transfer,which is totally untrue. I know what breaks on these trucks first hand i have broken parts testing them and the single disc Tc is not the weak link here. I know what fails and in what order,thru all this the same TC remains in my truck. If you could get an honest poll you'd see the numbers on the flexplate,other than that i only have my experience,and that is not enough for you. If you want to debate any furthe take it to PM,id be happy to go there, i dont want this to go the way of other trans threads.

 

[fleahead]

Thanks everyone. I really didn't mean to start this much discusion, but I picked up a bunch of TC education, anyway. R&R will be installing the Suncoast single disc and valve assembly tommorrow, so there is no decision to make, now. I'm sure any of the aftermarket units are better than the stock TC, and I've never read anything bad about the ProLoc TC's, so I'm confident that I will be satisfied.

 

[98rammer]

Remember... . you're transmission is only as good as the internal leakage, no matter what internals or how many discs you are running.



with that said, take the stator into account in fluid coupling phase. there's torque muliplication (note the word "multiply"!). so when the converter is at it's stall speed, it's putting out the max torque that it possibly can (as long as it's on your torque band like the aftermarket converters are). with a very good stator design, all you're doing is putting pressure "through" the atf from the impeller to the turbine...



Tom

 

[Jamie Attridge]

I agree with 98 rammer entirely! Your transmission will only be as good as the internal leakage and I have only heard of one company who boasts about fixing that problem.

 

[rweis]

XXX did mine, I watched them do the internals and WHY this or that was different. A REAL education.



I told the installer that I can be a real PITA and he said fine and he showed me what leaks and why and what is done about it and what the difference is.



Bob Weis

 

[curatchko]

Ah well I might as well throw my uneducated thoughts in too.



With a single disc you're going to need to make changes to the internals of the trans to increase the hydraulic lock up.



With a triple disc, you have mechanical properties to increase the lock up... . ie, more surface area of clutch. If the truck is newer than 98 you don't need to throw big dollars at the transmission as it already has many upgrades from the factory...



Now I'm not making 1200 lb/ft of torque, but I do tow A LOT around the country, and maybe the weight isn't as much as others, but my 30 foot racecar trailer weighs in excess of 12,000 pounds when fully loaded. I typically tow with my box on setting 2, and have on occasion raced some other diesels 'towing' up mountains for fun on setting 3... setting three makes enough steam to run 14. 80's in the quarter in 4 wheel drive. I have logged almost 30k miles on my Triple Disk converter in the last year, majority of it towing. My trans is as healthy as the day it rolled off the lot... . STOCK. As this point it looks like it will remain stock forever... .



Just my . 02.



Chris Uratchko

 

[KLockliear]

Just my observations: We use the DTT converters and have not been able to slip the single clutch setup in those with one truck making 790hp/1600ft-lbs dyno testing or running 11. 90's at 111mph in the 1/4 mile in a 6500# quad cab.

 

[y-knot]

I wish people on here would keep to the questions asked, and leave the there ego's, self serving editorials, product slaming, your wrong if you don't go my way ideals, and just plain horse **** reply's at home. Thank you.

 

[JohnE]

Snow man;

You never answered my question directly.

Where is numbers that back your claim that "The triple disc tc's and all billet covered TCs break flexplates quite frequently. This is a fact,it can be proven if you took an honest poll ... "?

No! Your own experience is not enough to back a staggering claim made on a public forum without hard facts.

I remember this same line coming up around 3 years ago. When asked to produce proof, the poster instead went into an offensive tirade and never answered the question. If this is indeed the case, 3 years should produce staggering numbers of failures.





fleahead;

I've talked directly to builders of billet cover converters. The only feedback I received was TC induced problems such as flex plate damage are caused by out of balance units. The added weight has not been a problem.

I hope your Suncoast works as well as my package.



-John