Triple Disc VS Single Disc TC

[Edward]

Originally posted by LSMITH

I can tell you that they are VERY much like the DTT 518 convertor in design theory, overall performance characteristics and basic construction. They were doing it in the late 70's and got it right.

LSMITH

I would like to point out is that ATS, Goerend, Suncoast and Mercedes Benz have all moved beyond the technology of the 70,s that is at least 25 years old. They are doing another it way that is proven and works great.



Edward

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Well we have been watching this thread for a while and it is apparent that a lot of transmission failure is being blamed on the torque converter clutch.



Lets just hold it for a minute here and think about it reasonably,



Chrysler engineers knew what their failure rate was and knew they had to do something about it. The extensive changes they have made to their entire transmission including cranking up the pressures indicate to us as transmission builders that they do know.



The one thing they DID NOT CHANGE is the lockup lining in their TC, or their front cover. Now if you are listening to some of the opinions being expressed here, and that is really what they are as non transmission builders, you could almost believe that if you change just your tc, the transmission and your whole world will get so much better because this has to be the weakest part of the transmission. Not true, 3rd gear will give up first and take out the TC.



You have only to look at Chrysler, they just released their new transmission 48 RE, lets take a look at what they changed .



They fixed first gear, changed the splines on the clutch pack themselves,



Improved 2nd gear,

Changed apply lever from 3. 8 - 5. 0 to have more 2nd gear mechanical advantage as the 48re is capable of locking up in 2nd gear.



They have improved 3rd gear

They changed the clutch packs from 4-5



They have improved 4th gear

They went from 5-6 friction materials



They changed the od direct/ that is a cost cutting measure per Bill as he doesn’t feel that a mechanical improvement.



The new changes implemented by Chrysler were already made by DTT over 2 years ago. So much for inventing parts guys dont need.



In-house CNC machining is not something we choose to do and we are not ashamed to admit that there are over 25 CNC machines involved in our TC manufacturing processes. We really do believe that its ok to allow specialists in their respective fields do their job according to our specifications. Bill's customers allow him the leeway to not personally process and assemble each and every TC himself, thank god or you know who would have to be right there with him.







Look at the trucks out there running the single discs, why would we want to change something that is holding the highest hp and towing weights in the industry today. We can tell you guys flat out since we have worked on more 700+ hp trucks that the entire aftermarket combined, simply put, the single disc works. If it did not it would cost us money. You have look at the pros and cons all around.



Consider this, if your flex plate breaks because of the Billet front cover weight, a reasonable assumption considering the Dodge TC is not centered by the crank, who pays? Towing, cost of flex plate, re and re cost, Who Pays??



If our TC clutch fails, ask yourself who pays? I'll save you the trouble, we pay! We would not keep doing it if it cost us money.



Edward, Bill wanted me to pass on something to you, he agrees with you, guys should pay close attention to the Mercedes engineers and what they have done with the changes inside the transmission and more specifically that they changed everything under the sun BUT the converter.



Even though flat head has already made his decision I thought is was still important to comment as its not just the TC that is the issue when trying to understand the weaknesses in these Dodges. As transmission builders we feel obligated to tell you changing out only the TC and or valve body is not always the answer and a temporary solution by itself. I think no matter who’s advice you guys follow or product you buy, you have to believe what they are telling you is the truth or the correct path for you to go, after that all the rest doesn’t matter because it should be your shop of choice that has to look after you at the end of the day.

 

[LSMITH]

Originally posted by Edward

LSMITH

I would like to point out is that ATS, Goerend, Suncoast and Mercedes Benz have all moved beyond the technology of the 70,s that is at least 25 years old. They are doing another it way that is proven and works great.



Edward

It may not be old technology but it is a work-around. It does work but has drawbacks. Why do you not find it in every production vehicle? It is not needed or desired.



Again, Mercedes did it on the 7G because they HAD to, not because it is what they wanted to do. It is more complicated and costs more to build, you will NEVER see that in a production vehicle unless it was necessary. In our trucks it is not necessary or desired.



APPLES AND ORANGES.



If your stock convertor was slipping would you want to work around that with a mechanically locking device in the TC or address the cause of the slippage? It is not clutch area that is responsible for convertor clutch slippage, the single disk systems have PROVEN that there is plenty. Some people want to fix it, some others want to get around it. Different strokes for different folks.



Oh, I almost forgot. Do you even know what a 518 convertor is? Evidently not... .....

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Well, this one has strayed far enough from the guidelines and it's obvious where it's headed. Time to shut it down.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator