triple lock TC

[SRehberg]

In this last issue of TDR, there was a good article regarding the upgrades of EarthRoamer, with the trans rebuild, TC change out. The TC sounded like a fix for the ongoing slippage problem with HP increases. Then I began to think about the triple clutch; maybe I'm missing something, but the contact area at the billet cover is still a single disk, so where do we get the extra holding power?





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'96 2wd auto

 

[BigYellowIron]

I'm not sure how many of them, but there are a couple that are splined to the front cover and the others are splined to the input on the transmission, Just like the Clutch packs in the transmission itself.



Adam

 

[SRehberg]

Big Yellow Iron. . that makes sense if it is like the trans clutch packs, and would be very effective. I only had the picture to go by that was in the TDR which just showed the plain round, no teeth discs. Thanks for setting me straight!



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'96 2wd auto

 

[BigYellowIron]

Dunno, But I think someone sail a while back that , that pic was altered or something but I cannot be for sure.





Adam

 

[Tom W]

I looked at the triplelock at MM. It was very impressive workmanship. I want to state that I have the DTT and am very happy with it but I think I am open minded and don't want to bad mouth anyones product.



I am not a mechanic so maybe someone can explain so I can understand how three disks hold three time as much. It seems to me that you still have only one disk effectively holding - the weakest one. If I were to hold three disks between my hands and tried to rotate them in opposite directions only one surface would slip - this would be true if you had ten disks or a hundred. I can see how multiple disks could reduce the wear as it would be spread out since the same disk might not slip all the time. I think the "holding power" or friction is a result of pressure on a given area and increasing area without increasing pressure does very little to increase friction. As I said, I am not a mechanic, so I could be all wet in my ideas. Can someone set me straight?



Tom



P. S. Thanks to DD for all they did at MM. I showed 366 RWHP on their dyno.

 

[Strick-9]

Tom W,



The frictions are splined to the input shaft and the steels are splined to the converter. So basically all the surfaces slip, or none slip. That's why it's stronger once locked up.



-Chris

 

[rrausch]

Right Strick-9. I couldn't figure it out either, until I saw one and then I thought, "Of course... why didn't someone think of that sooner!"



ATS deliberately left out the pictures of the clutch "ears" in the pictures, because they didn't want their invention to get stolen before it was patented. Then a member of our own TDR, who should have known better, posted boot-legged pictures of the TripleLok clutches and it caused ATS great expense and problems with the patent.

I think their patent is secure now, but I might be wrong.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Clint Cannon and Don Ramer are the boss-type people at ATS and are some of the nicest people I have met. Their customer service is awesome. I have closely examined the Triplelok and can tell you that it is very well engineered. Clint is the designer and he wouldn't release that converter until it was spot-on perfect. The machining of the parts inside the Triplelok is extremely precise and very well thought out. If anyone has any questions just call Clint at 303 431-7973; they are always eager to explain everything. Oo.

 

[Bob Wagner]

off topic question

CC, How do you like the B1 ?

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I put the B1 on at the same time I changed the pump and injectors. It turns out that the pump is bad so I can't really give an accurate account of how much the turbo helped; this is why I haven't posted about it yet. I'll let ya'all know what I think after I get another pump put on.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

just an idle comment... . no flames intended... .



ATS isn't the only game in town that has a multiple disk convertor..... an often over-looked vendor (Goerend Bros. ) offers a triple disk as well... .



My $. 04 worth (inflation... ).....



Matt

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The "5 and up disk club" is for members that have small diameter TC's to begin with. I think Precision can supply convertors with up to 7 disks... . for full-blown race applications with small diameter TC's.



We are lucky to have a TC with a pretty good sized O. D. , so that we can get away with fewer clutch disks since we have decent surface area to begin with.



What we are asking from these transmissions is nothing short of absurd. The torque/HP just kills 'em..... we're fortunate they last as long as they do.



Matt

 

[Strick-9]

Cummins Corvette,



You make a good point as well.

Why do you need three when Lawrence doesn't slip ONE at over 1400 ft-lbs?



I'd like to know more about Goerend's and Suncoast's converters. I wonder if they are compatible with our stock valvebody flow constraints or if they are building a 'proper' multi-disc that drag racers use. You guys know the ones. The ones retailing for $6500+.



Marketing behind torque converters is down right hilarious. Square tabs versus round being the difference between failure and perfection.



LOL!



Aren't we copying a disc out of a transmission. Are they round or square? I thought the application was exactly the same. At least that's what I was told a month ago by the local experts.



FYI, I was shown a round tabbed friction in December that was ready for assembly.



-Chris

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Cummins Corvette

You make a good point Matt. There is a rumor that Suncoast is making a 5 disk, but they know there is no point to 5 when the 3 is holding much more than we will ever throw at it. It is just a number thing I guess. I know that at least one of the other companies has not addressed the tab design though. The converters with round tabs around the outside or inside of the disks are failing. As with anything the quality of the 3 or 5 disk converters is going to vary.

I haven't heard of a TC with round tabs failing. Who's, and where did you hear that?

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Strick-9

Cummins Corvette,



You make a good point as well.

Why do you need three when Lawrence doesn't slip ONE at over 1400 ft-lbs?

-Chris

I would be willing to bet that extreme line pressure was necessary to hold that with a single plane clutch. (remember I can slip mine below 1700 rpm with <800 ft/lbs) I am not bashing Bill's product because he told me that it would not hold at low rpm; he was honest and up front about that. Based on what Bill said, Lawrence was probably up around at least 2000 rpm when he let 'er rip.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Chris brought up a good point, what is the design of the drag racers version of the lockup, I have seen (heard) of a few some in BIG h. p. some in not so big, whay kinda design do they use. I know Jim Huber uses one, or so it's said with a glide and you can hear it down track kicking in like another gear. If we can keep the:-{} down and not flame the companies that build our(that's everyone) converters we all could learn allot.



Jim

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Well said Jim.....



Enough with the :-{} ... . we use this forum for furthering our hobbies with the relentless pursuit of intellectual improvement.



If we stop crying and having transmission wars, they might be more willing to tell us more about their product.



Someday, this might happen... ... hopefully before long... my stock auto is dying a slow death... and needs a few thousand $$ thrown at it. I need to know who to give my hard-earned thousands to..... not because someone says that "Company-X" is the cat's posterior and "transmission-X" can withstand 8-Bagillion HP for 12 seconds at a whack, but because I have the information I need to make an informed decision.



The information may never come out, and nobody will ever really know which product is the best... . it really is too bad that there isn't some honest, unbiased, testing.



I'll volunteer my truck!



Matt

 

[Steve Roseman]

Jim, I know a lot of racers using powerglides don't even use a torque converter. They use an adaptor that goes from the flywheel directly to the input shaft and pump. They just use a valve to engage the clutches.

This setup is a little hard on parts and wouldn't be very useful in the real world.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset





The information may never come out, and nobody will ever really know which product is the best... . it really is too bad that there isn't some honest, unbiased, testing.



I'll volunteer my truck!



Matt

Well... ... you're in luck. I will get my truck up to around 475 hp by the end of this month (hopefully), and turn in some real world tests for ya'all. Since we are on the subject, I would like to hear everyone's ideas for tests I can do before and after the swap from the DTT to the ATS setup. One I have thought of is (of course) doing 1/4 mile runs and noting the trans temp before and after the runs, and the time and speed of the runs. Another possible test is towing my trailer and noting the temps at different speeds and grades. I will also tell what temps I see in city driving, and how long I can sit in drive at a stop before the temp gets over 220.



If anyone can come up with any more ideas, I am willing to try them out so I can answer your questions regarding the differences between the two. I am scheduled to go back to ATS the first week in June to do the swap. Oo. Oo.

 

[LSMITH]

Chris, do a brake stand burnout and note the RPM and boost that the tires break loose at with each TC. If you can do it at the same spot do it, pavement will be the same. That will give me the torque multiplication basics that I am looking for. Thanks.