triple lock TC

[RottnDogue]

LSMITH

Won't the Outside Temp. need to be the same, as well as Tire Temp. ? Not to mention Tire Pressure, Brake peddle pressure, road conditions etc. ??



Hey Chris how about MPG... .

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by LSMITH

Chris, do a brake stand burnout and note the RPM and boost that the tires break loose at with each TC. If you can do it at the same spot do it, pavement will be the same. That will give me the torque multiplication basics that I am looking for. Thanks.

That's kinda hard on tires (I know, I'm cheap), but I suppose I could do it once. I can tell you that Clint knows A LOT about torque multiplication, and has disigned their stator to allow about as much of it as possible.

Originally posted by RottnDogue

LSMITH

Won't the Outside Temp. need to be the same, as well as Tire Temp. ? Not to mention Tire Pressure, Brake peddle pressure, road conditions etc. ??



Hey Chris how about MPG... .

You are right about there being a lot of factors involved; I think he just wants me to look like a 16 year old punk. Lol. I will try to get an estimation of MPG, but I might not have much time between changing the pump and changing the transmission to get a good idea of the efficiency with my old transmission and the new pump.



I thought of another one: lag. I could time how long it takes to get to a certain boost level when I punch it from a stop. This is one of the biggest reasons for the swap. I should have thought of that test before.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by Strick-9

Cummins Corvette,



Marketing behind torque converters is down right hilarious. Square tabs versus round being the difference between failure and perfection.



LOL!



Aren't we copying a disc out of a transmission. Are they round or square? I thought the application was exactly the same. At least that's what I was told a month ago by the local experts.



FYI, I was shown a round tabbed friction in December that was ready for assembly.



-Chris

The round tabs are prone top failure because the contact area on the tab can only be a single point on the circle. The sqare tab can be wider to resist shear and have a longer contact area the spread out the shear stress.



If you think that one is enough then you really should got to an event and get Clint to explain it you and show you his convertor.



they have a stall speed that is stock and a lockup clutch that will withstand lockup from 1st through OD and back at any rpm w/o slipping. Kevin Goode has a REALLY mean 12v and his doesn't miss a lick on the bottom side. Don's truck is a screamer too and the driveability of that transmission is amazing.



A vendor (unnamed) has been saying that shifts at lockup will destroy a transmission... well, Allison had been doing it for years. The same vendor also claimes that CTD's built for reliability should never be over 275hp(it was a public discussion with MANY witnesses). . I guess Cummins really shouldn't make 370hp 5. 9s .



Believe what you will. I spent 3 days with Clint and Don at May Madness. I am convinced that they have a better, more durable mouse trap.



Go ahead and question their performance claims. Their HP numbers at MM were not what they wanted, but don't have any doubt about the transmission. That's their bread and butter. Don WILL redeem himself soon on the HP too. He had a bad day at MM, his transmission didn't.



Later,

Mark

 

[LSMITH]

Originally posted by RottnDogue

LSMITH

Won't the Outside Temp. need to be the same, as well as Tire Temp. ? Not to mention Tire Pressure, Brake peddle pressure, road conditions etc. ??



Hey Chris how about MPG... .

Well... ... Yes. But I am only looking for rough approximations. If Chris is doing it the brake pressure should be close, and I asked for it to be at the same spot if possible. Tire temp and pavement temp are going to need to be pretty close. I am looking for a big difference, say 4 PSI or 250 RPM, not 1 PSI and 50 RPM. If the milled stator is as bad as some would have you believe the difference should be pretty big.



I am not doubting any company or any one person. I am just looking for some info for my own personal use, that is all.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick





Kevin Goode has a REALLY mean 12v and his doesn't miss a lick on the bottom side. Don's truck is a screamer too and the driveability of that transmission is amazing.



A vendor (unnamed) has been saying that shifts at lockup will destroy a transmission

Later,

Mark

mark



it's funny you bring up kevin, i spent a fair amount of time with him at mm. did you ever ask him how many shafts he has broken by shifting lock to lock?

now to be fair i broke a output shaft on thursday night, but i was stalling the motor getting ready to drag raceand i put my old one back in.

maybe before you preach about how lock to lock shifting can't hurt anything you should ask the guy that has been breaking parts. and kevin is about 200hp down on us high hp guys.

now to be fair don hasn't ever really made any hp to speak of. so maybe at 480hp you can shft locked to lock for awhile. but i bet at 700+ with a sled behind it, or at the strip it wouldn't last very long at all.

this has nothing to do with ats, imo if you have 700+ hp and shift locked to lock the shafts in a 47re will not hold up!! but i would love for some one to prove me wrong. muncie will be a perfect place to show us how they can hold up!!



jim

 

[StakeMan]

CUMINNTSTRKN,

How many miles did you have on the transmission before yours broke?

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

my output shaft in my new transmission (installed the thursday before may-madness) had about 10 miles on it. it was a weak shaft. the one i put back in it was the one with over 250 launches under it's belt. it held up all weekend at the pulls and the drags!! it broke at 20psi while i was waiting to race, not shifting lock to lock.



jim

 

[StakeMan]

I was just trying to make the point that any high HP truck can break a shaft in any transmission.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by CUMINNTSTRKN





mark

maybe before you preach about how lock to lock shifting can't hurt anything you should ask the guy that has been breaking parts. and kevin is about 200hp down on us high hp guys.

jim

If you have 200 more hp than Kevin, then I think you have the most powerful Cummins that exists. Kevin has one of Pier's "stupid" pumps and Enterprise compound turbos. I really doubt you are making 200 hp more than Kevin.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Input and and output shafts break in manual trannies, too, when subjected to over 600 HP. The point is in creating a torque convertor or clutch that will hold, something else in the line has to give. Therefore, it'll be the aforementioned shafts, or the u-joints, or the transfer case... . Nothing to do with ATS, or any of the other vendors.

I think this whole thing got started because a certain vendor insisted that he builds his trannies to prevent such breakage. If I remember correctly. That's fine. But I'd rather the transmission hold, and survive for quite a bit more than 50,000 miles, than have it be the "weak link" and absorb the punishment better directed at some other component of the driveline.

The way the ATS transmission and TripleLok are designed, it should make things easier on the transmission, giving it a longer life.

And bigger, stronger shafts are available for both autos and manuals.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Originally posted by Cummins Corvette





If you have 200 more hp than Kevin, then I think you have the most powerful Cummins that exists. Kevin has one of Pier's "stupid" pumps and Enterprise compound turbos. I really doubt you are making 200 hp more than Kevin.

Did Kevin hit the dyno? take a 1/4 mile run? pull a sled?

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Bob Wagner





That is a *** statement



Please fill it in as you see fit



DTT's warranty is 2years and UNLIMITED MILEAGE, SINCE SOME OF THE CUSTOMERS ARE HOTSHOTS THAT LOG OVER 100K MILES PER YEAR.

Well, based on that, I'd say that a hotshotter would be better off with the DTT setup. I am not a hotshotter though.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

Originally posted by Cummins Corvette





If you have 200 more hp than Kevin, then I think you have the most powerful Cummins that exists. Kevin has one of Pier's "stupid" pumps and Enterprise compound turbos. I really doubt you are making 200 hp more than Kevin.

chris



not the most powerful, but thankyou. i was being nice i should of said i have at least 200 more hp than kevin. it's more like 250hp. i know what kevin has, why do you think i could give you a #.

stake said:I was just trying to make the point that any high HP truck can break a shaft in any transmission.

i know high hp trucks break parts, it just seems that you break more parts when shifting lock to lock. as i said if someone gets over 700hp with a ats shifting lock to lock it will break lots of parts!!

briar said:Input and and output shafts break in manual trannies, too, when subjected to over 600 HP. The point is in creating a torque convertor or clutch that will hold, something else in the line has to give. Therefore, it'll be the aforementioned shafts, or the u-joints, or the transfer case... . Nothing to do with ATS, or any of the other vendors.

that's my point why suggest shifting lock to lock to help destroy those drivetrain parts? isn't ats still advertising lock to lock shifts? i know your a ats installer and can you in good conscious tell one of your customers that there transmission will last 50+k miles at 450hp shifting lock to lock while towing there trailer, or drag racing, or sled pulling, or ask kevin what he does, he just drives his truck on the street. a warranty is great, but it's even better if you never have to use it. all i was saying is that kevin has broke more than 2 shafts becuase the transmission is shifting lock to lock.



we will break parts, my output shaft was pushed hard to make sure it wouldn't fail in the pulls. i was told if the output shaft is weak it will break right away and mine did. i also ruined my rear ring and pinion while at may madness, but that's just part of the game.



i don't think there is anything wrong with a ats transmission, i just don't understand how they can advertise lock to lock shifts. i guess they could have proved us wrong at mm, but they chose to not compete in the sled pulls or the drag strip. i hope there ready for muncie.



jim

 

[Bob Wagner]

Originally posted by Cummins Corvette





Well, based on that, I'd say that a hotshotter would be better off with the DTT setup. I am not a hotshotter though.

and so are the everyday fifth wheel pullers too. This is the market that DTT has a very loyal following.

 

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

A vendor (unnamed) has been saying that shifts at lockup will destroy a transmission... well, Allison had been doing it for years. The same vendor also claimes that CTD's built for reliability should never be over 275hp(it was a public discussion with MANY witnesses). . I guess Cummins really shouldn't make 370hp 5. 9s

Yeah, I recall the vendor stating that right here on the TDR in a forum once. The vendor also stated in the next sentence that the 275 hp limit was given a rig that wanted to get over 100K miles towing a 12K 5er up 7% grades. That was his definition of reliability. -- I doubt that the vendor would tell Cummins that he cannot have 370HP. Just not towing a 12K 5er up a 7% grade in overdrive, lockup up, at 1600 RPM's, with 36+ psi of boost, going for 100K miles.



You should also see the size of the shafts in those allison trannys. Comparing lock to lock shifting in one of those to an RE47 is not even close to the same thing. -- so tell me, did that vendor say that in the context of our trannys, or did the vendor say the no transmission no matter who built it could with stand lock to lock shifting.

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by CUMINNTSTRKN



or ask kevin what he does, he just drives his truck on the street.

jim

LMAO

 

[Briar Hopper]

Typical, Bob, typical... I didn't say DTT. The last transmission I yanked to replace with a built-ATS, was shot at only about 50,000 miles. I'm not going to say what company's transmission it was. That'd be bashing. It wasn't a DTT. Had somebody brought me a lunched DTT, I would have had him phone Bill to see about getting it taken care of.

 

[JConley]

Hey Bob, . . . Just curious... . help me understand this...



Why do you take every opportunity to promote DTT. I know they have good stuff, but you make me wonder. I believe in product loyalty and promoting something you believe in, but it appears that you are trying despirately to make everyone believe that DTT is THE only way to go, and like blind sheep we should believe you.



I am glad that you like your DTT setup. (really, I am ) but I have a few questions to help me have a better understanding of where you are coming from.



1. have you even ridden in an ATS equipped truck??



2. Why do you slam ATS when you have never owned ATS hardware, and most likely never will?



3. What do you hope to accomplish by slamming ATS? Do you want them to go away so DTT is the only seller of TC's?



4. Is freedon of CHOICE a bad thing??



I just dont see anything productive coming out of your DTT preachings, so help me understang your point of view.

 

[Bob Wagner]

1. No



2. Where did I slam ATS ?



3. I am not slaming ATS, Go back in this thread, I said lets wait and see.



4. No





Later,

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Bob Wagner

1. No



2. Where did I slam ATS ?



3. I am not slaming ATS, Go back in this thread, I said lets wait and see.



4. No





Later,

Hey Bob- lets try to keep up the attitude of "let's wait and see", ok? I would have to agree with JConley in that you seem to have it out for ATS. Don't feel bad that you have a DTT transmission; remember I have one too. It is light years ahead of stock and will no doubt serve you well. I am just picky and want everything, which is why I am going to the ATS transmission/converter. I believe that Clint has made a transmission that is one or two steps closer to perfection. (please note I did not say it was perfect, only closer to perfect)