Triple lock vs. single??

[jimk]

information

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Seems reasonable to me that if you know you have a hard working tc and you have prolonged stops, slipping in to neutral is a simple solution . Last time I checked most trucks come with a neutral selector.

That is what I do now along with a few other things that Bill told me to do. I am sure the reason the transmission is still working at 102k. Good advice is just that good advice. I don't always like what I hear but that do not change the the quality of the advice.

Going into neutral is good until you go a little to far, once was enough for me. I just like to push in the clutch and ease the shifter into neutral. But since I can not do that yet or with this truck I may go a different route, towing the main goal. .

Stefin just because I don't wont to go to 1750 minimun rpm does not mean that I don't like the DDT trans or its Builders. I have been critical of the lockup at lower speeds than recommended but that does not have any reflection on my opinion of the DDT quality or performance. For me it is not personal, I am just stubborn as Bill would probably tell you. thanks again Jim

 

[jimk]

transmission temps

Originally posted by Snow man

I plowed snow a full winter with the DTT 89 TC, and a full winter with the DTT 91 race TC, I didnt notice much difference,neither one ran hot,both ran cooler than the stock TC plowing snow. I keep the truck moving, i dont sit in gear for more than a few seconds. This yr i pushed 2 plows over 12ft wide, at 13000 lbs and the trans never went over 180 in the pan peak. the average temp was 145-160 in the pan with only the front cooler next to the rad,since i removed the engine mounted cooler for the twins.

Your temps are measured at the pan or in the pan. I was under the impression to check at the cooling line going to the heat exchanger. I don't remember the difference between temps in the different areas, but was told to check at the cooling line going to the cooler. How ever the temps you are talking about look good. Have you ever got to a area that has 100 deg air and and pulled in fluid coupling up a hill with 3. 54 gears. That is a fair test. thanks Jim

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Nathan, you know how Bill thinks, and realize that while some out there may be looking at what happend with Opie's truck with glee, the technician part of Bill wanted to see the transmission after it tried to take on the locked sled. You and I both know even moving that thing the foot or so that it did was crazy . It doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell which would lose. Nathan, you have to love Eddies subtle stealth mode philosopy Things must give at their weakest point, you think ? Locked sled vs dodge transmission ...



Some vendors are expressing opinions in this thread and dont even have their affiliation in their profiles or signatures. It is a tough deal for consumers that are trying to learn when they cannot see the bias.

Stefan

I don't know of anyone who feels "glee" when they hear what happened to Opie. He was there to compete and have fun and when his truck broke the fun ended for him. It would have been great to see what his truck could have done.

Lets change gears and talk about my transfer case illustration. There is nothing subtle or stealth about it. The illustration about the transfer case boiled down to 700 horsepower verses traction, the sled, and drive train components. You fill in the blank (___________) and tell us which one could not handle the 700 horsepower.

As far as your complaint about vendors not putting whom they are affiliated with in their signature I agree with you. Why not set the example and require all your installers and business affiliates to appropriately make such disclosures in their signatures on all sights?



Edward

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by jimk

My friend told me that he has seen 240 out of his DDT when he pulled his trailer. I may be wrong but I think that is what he told me out of his cooling line . I wont to be sure I understand, that a stock converter will heat up more at idle that a 91 % converter in gear not moving?

I have a stock converter so I wont to keep it going as long as I can. I have pulled in second gear in stock fluid coupling an that is no fun for sure for 20 miles. I am only trying to learn how to make the transmission live for a while more. Thanks JimK

I have pulled a 30k bus with a chain down the freeway. This was for 70 miles. It took me 35 psi to keep it going at 55-60. Many hills too. I never got a hot trans. I don't think I even hit 180 in the lines. So I would have to say if your friend hit 240 he wasn't locked.

 

[jimk]

infromation

Originally posted by SEmerson

I have pulled a 30k bus with a chain down the freeway. This was for 70 miles. It took me 35 psi to keep it going at 55-60. Many hills too. I never got a hot trans. I don't think I even hit 180 in the lines. So I would have to say if your friend hit 240 he wasn't locked.

That is probably right. He has a 89 I think. He told me he had to back out of it> thanks Jim

 

[jimk]

transmission

I talked to him today an he had a ,what looked like a spool valve,spring, an a clip to show me that he found in the pan. He asked me what does these parts do.

I did not know what the valves function was. Up till now the transmission has worked good. jimk

 

[JoshPeters]

Originally posted by Edward

Stefan

Lets change gears and talk about my transfer case illustration. There is nothing subtle or stealth about it. The illustration about the transfer case boiled down to 700 horsepower verses traction, the sled, and drive train components. You fill in the blank (___________) and tell us which one could not handle the 700 horsepower.

Edward

OK here's a thought. What could have handled that? He was trying to pull (unknowingly) an immoveable object. Why keep beating a dead horse. They are saying under NORMAL conditions these transmissions, being DTT, ATS, Goerends, or Suncoast will hold up. You bind ANYTHING up with that much torque something will break. The weak link in this case was the Shafts in the trans. So what. Billet shaft it might have cracked the case of the trans... who knows... . Who cares. These transmissions hold WAY more power then they were designed to with stock shafts. I personally am tired of reading about how it shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't when guys are donig it every day. There will always be SOMETHING or SOMEONE that can break it. Given ABNORMAL circumstances anything can happen. Like the brakes on the sled locked. Is that normal? Nope. Could that transmission handle sled pulling. Yep.



Please stop the trivial whining. Use a bit of common sense and enjoy a site that has more technical information than most dealerships have.



Josh

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Edward,



As far as which part in OPIE's truck couldn't handle 700hp, I would say the T-Case as he has broken two and is on #3, with regular abusive use. And he is using the heavy duty one out of the sitcks.

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by JoshPeters

OK here's a thought. What could have handled that? He was trying to pull (unknowingly) an immoveable object. Why keep beating a dead horse. They are saying under NORMAL conditions these transmissions, being DTT, ATS, Goerends, or Suncoast will hold up. You bind ANYTHING up with that much torque something will break... .



I personally am tired of reading about how it shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't when guys are donig it every day. There will always be SOMETHING or SOMEONE that can break it. Given ABNORMAL circumstances anything can happen... Please stop the trivial whining. Use a bit of common sense and enjoy a site that has more technical information than most dealerships have.



Josh

Josh

Actually my question was presented to Stefan but since you commented on that post let me answer. If you go back and read my posts you will find that my objection was not to any failure. Like you stated above we agree no remanufactured transmission could have handled that. Now back to my original reason for posting and the objection, which seems to have been lost. To me it is misleading for any vendor to list a bunch of high horse power trucks using their product when in reality they have to know that horsepower at that level can easily trash it. Personally I do not find misleading product promotion trivial.

Finally with all due respect if reading my posts takes the fun out of the sight please do not read them. I would like for you to enjoy the sight as much as I do.



Edward

 

[Jim Fulmer]

To me it is misleading for any vendor to list a bunch of high horse power trucks using their product when in reality they have to know that horsepower at that level can easily trash it. Personally I do not find misleading product promotion trivial.



You need to go for a ride with me!







I want to thank not my vendors but all of you readers for sponsoring my truck, I'm enjoying it!



Jim (USN)

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by Edward

Josh

Actually my question was presented to Stefan but since you commented on that post let me answer. If you go back and read my posts you will find that my objection was not to any failure. Like you stated above we agree no remanufactured transmission could have handled that. Now back to my original reason for posting and the objection, which seems to have been lost. To me it is misleading for any vendor to list a bunch of high horse power trucks using their product when in reality they have to know that horsepower at that level can easily trash it. Personally I do not find misleading product promotion trivial.

Finally with all due respect if reading my posts takes the fun out of the sight please do not read them. I would like for you to enjoy the sight as much as I do.



Edward

Edward



A list like that is not misleading at all. That shows that there is a push to find a weak point. And that there is current product develepment going on. This is like saying that nascar does not help at all with product develepment. And that nothing has been learned by the auto industy due to racing. By pushing way past where a product is made to go thay find weak point. And yes any vender will expect some brakeage. But if thay don't get any brakeage thay are not really trying. If the trannies where not pushed by the 700 hp guys we wouldn't have billet parts many of use enjoy today. And as far as the every day guy getting a benifit out of all of this, I for one feel good that many of my parts have been tested past 700 hp. Not to mention on someone elses money.

 

[jimk]

transmission

Yea those DODGE transmissions are plenty stout but some time things happen. I have seen the output shaft twisted in the splines on a 160 hp truck. That did not instill confidence in a automatic for me. jimk

 

[CumminFast]

Are there any sub 12-second DTT trucks right now?

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by SEmerson

Edward



A list like that is not misleading at all. That shows that there is a push to find a weak point. And that there is current product develepment going on. This is like saying that nascar does not help at all with product develepment. And that nothing has been learned by the auto industy due to racing. By pushing way past where a product is made to go thay find weak point. And yes any vender will expect some brakeage. But if thay don't get any brakeage thay are not really trying. If the trannies where not pushed by the 700 hp guys we wouldn't have billet parts many of use enjoy today. And as far as the every day guy getting a benifit out of all of this, I for one feel good that many of my parts have been tested past 700 hp. Not to mention on someone elses money.

SEmerson

I think you are missing my point. Development is good and by pushing things past their limit the areas that need improvement are exposed. We agree with each other completely on that point. However those vendors who put up lists of trucks using their product with 700+ horsepower are leaving a false impression in an attempt to promote their product. These lists directly imply that their product will hold that much power. After all that is why these high horsepower folks use it, right? At least that is the implication. When reality comes calling it says, if there is still development going on at the 700 horsepower level then the product is not capable of holding that much power yet. All of the transmission shops have trucks with that much power using their product and the majority of them do not boast about it. Why don't they boast you may ask? I think they are responsible enough to realize that they are right on the edge at 700 horsepower and all it takes is one little oops and something will give. They are responsible enough to avoid misleading prospective customers about what their product is capable of. For any vendor to honestly say they can hold that much power means that their product will hold all 700 horsepower under full throttle without suffering any damage. Right now no company I know of can do that and it is misleading to imply otherwise.



Edward

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by Edward

For any vendor to honestly say they can hold that much power means that their product will hold all 700 horsepower under full throttle without suffering any damage.

Now I am confused on this thread, I thought they can hold all 700, just not under a condition that is unrealistic like a locked sled.

Kinda like locking the truck brakes and mashing the go pedal with even 300 hp would do in a transmission in short order if you hold it down long enough.

 

[SEmerson]

Edward



I see it as they have proven that they can hold it. At that power level there is very few failures. There will always be some at any power level. And the whole point is that their is current development. With any product that is sold to the public there SHOULD be current development. Even if the product is considered perfect. So I still see nothing bad about there being current development. Amatter a fact I am very happy about it. And as far as the list if the product was weak why would they show it. It then would be bad advertisement.

 

[Edward]

SEmerson



Your PM box is full and I would like to send you a message.

Thanks

Edward

 

[SEmerson]

more room now

 

[jimk]

information

Most of the guys that have aftermarket transmissions are very happy and any information will not matter to those guys, however the guys who are waiting for the transmission to fail, might benefit from a comparison of the different converters and transmissions.

I have learned a few things an maybe a few others also. Unless some dramatic thing changes my idea of a good towing transmission, the choice is made for me. My wife likes a automatic an when I replace her truck for a diesel I will use what I have found to be the best automatic transmission for our purposes.

Three things have made my choice 1 Warranty 100 k miles and no time line. ( all of the transmission not just select parts) 2 Good fluid coupling 3 the ability to go to lock at 1550 or so if I wont It.

I have come to the conclusion that things happen to the best transmission and warranty will give you security if the unforeseen thing happens. When I buy a product I have no intention of being my own warranty station when I buy a transmission for our purposes. Ask your vendor what if or what about that ? Is all of the transmission covered if you bought a complete unit?

I will tell you that if I bought a complete transmission I wont complete warranty... .

Ask at what rpm will you be able to use overdrive and lockup. what about lockup in general, min number.

Know where you stand on the warranty and choose a good product that suits your needs.

I wont to thank the guys who were good enough to answer my question and hopefully did not take the question personal. For me friendship is NOT based on what transmission you use. good luck to all jimk

 

[Snow man]

Maybe im off base here,but the i thought 1750RPM minimum was for the transmission longevity. Since none of the aftermarket companys build there own planetarys for the OD unit, this would apply to all automatics. Just like your not supposed to pull hard with a 5 speed below 1600 in 5th,it doesnt matter whos clutch is in it. This driving style is abusive on trans hard parts,the rear,and the engine,more so than winding it up in the lower gear. As for slipping the TC ,I hit the nitrous on my truck from 1600 locked up,many times,both on the road and dyno and the torque instantly buries the 1200ft lb limit on the dynojet. I did that on the street,never any slippage,so i dont think the single lockup TC is a problem, my biggest concern would be the rest of the trans.

I have pulled hard at 1550 for a few seconds with Dads DTT modded 01,with the box on 3x3,and the DD2's,the little HY35 spooled right up,the truck pulled,nothing slipped, but you could hear and feel the driveline straining,it clearly wasnt happy. Why anyone you want to drive like that,and pull hard at that rpm ill never know. i have cruised at 1550 in lockup on the flats,it seems to do fine there,but any kind of hill/headwind and its not happy. Also most 24v trucks with aftermarket injectors will smoke at anything below 1600 under a good load.