Archived Truck won't start

[pnwradar]

My Blue Chip pump cover arrived yesterday, just as I was finishing up the oil/filter change, so I decided to put it on and hook up the Edge Comp pump wire. Now the truck won't start. I replaced the fuel pump and banjo bolts last week, since fuel pressure was getting really low at WOT -- afterwards pressure was great at idle and WOT. Pressure is still showing good.



I had to unplug the TPS wiring connector to move the TPS unit out of the way, and the Blue Chip directions say to check for 12vdc between the wire posts. When I turned the truck to ON to check for 12vdc, I forgot to connect the TPS back up. When I put the TPS back on, I made sure to hook up the connector right, though.



The truck wouldn't start, and the CheckEngine light was lit. I read the codes with the on-off key trick, and it showed P0122 (TPS low voltage) and P1693 (mystery code). I unplugged the batteries for a half-hour, and now I only have the P1693 code.



I let it sit overnight, and it still wouldn't start this morning. I unplugged the Edge Comp and removed the pump cover, still no joy. I loosened the #1 injector line nut, and when I crank it looks like diesel comes out (shoved a clean towel in there, can't see it from the cab). Fuel pressure comes up good, and it cranks nice and hard, just won't catch.



Anyone have any ideas? Hope I didn't fry the injector pump already -- I didn't even get to play with 5/5, yet.



-jon-

 

[pnwradar]

Well, it still sits in the driveway, pouting and refusing to start up. I went out and cussed at it several times, but didn't manage to convice it to catch. I plugged in the block heater plug for three hours, just in case the engine suddenly felt a chill, but that didn't seem to make a difference.



I'm letting the starter run for about 10 seconds, tried with no throttle, partial throttle, half throttle, floored pedal, makes no difference. Any ideas, before I call the wrecker and send it down to the checkbook cleaning scoundrels? I can't imagine that the injector pump cooked itself already, the engine never even ran with the wire connected -- unless the Blue Chip cover somehow fatally damaged the pump wire and now no signal is getting to the pump? I have to think it's either some magic computer-thingy, or I'm missing something really basic.



Anyone more clever than me have some spare time, can come help me swear at the truck?



-jon-

 

[MikeR]

I'll call you in a few hours when I wake up, I can probably come over and help swear.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

By turning the truck on with the APPS (new name for the TPS) disconnected maybe you have lost the calibration. What I'd try is to disconnect the batteries and leave them unpluged for about 10 minutes, then reconnect them. Turn the ignition on (but don't try to start it) and then slowly depress the throttle to the floor and then return it to idle. Shut the truck off and then turn it back on and try to start it. Normally you only have to do that when you've replaced the APPS, but in your case by turning the truck on with it disconnected maybe it needs to be redone. Just a guess.

 

[pnwradar]

I did as Steve suggested, and tried to recalibrate the APPS/TPS module. Still wouldn't start. Stuttered once, just to tease me, but it did that once last night -- just a hint of catching, no more.



I called Blue Chip, and they suggested checking fuse #9 (it's good), seeing if I torqued down the ground connection too far and cracked the connector or chip (doesn't look like it), and bumping it a lot to run any air out of the lines (didn't require it last week, and didn't help this morning).



Blue Chip also mentioned that they've never hooked up the Edge COMP the way I did, which is to connect the COMP ground wire to their black wire. They've always grounded the COMP wire directly to the engine/chassis. Anyone think that might have roasted something?



Anyway, I took the TPS loose again, looking for cracks or damage to the VP44 computer. I'll try re-calibrating the TPS again in a little bit, after the batteries have had a chance to sit, disconnected. Hope it starts, I'm beginnning to get worried.



-jon-

 

[DEZLPWR]

MikeR where are you??

He should definitely be able to get you back on the road... .

 

[pnwradar]

Completely pulled the Edge COMP out of the truck (CanBus and MAP sensor), checked fuse #9, swapped the fuel relay with the horn relay (known good). Did the TPS/APPS recalibration, still won't start. The battery's starting to feel a little worn (showing ~10vdc on the gauge), so I think just turning the key and hoping isn't going to work (drat!).



MikeR called me earlier, and said he'd be available later this afternoon. I have complete faith in his skills, and I'll definitely owe him dinner if he can work his magic on my truck. The alternative is towing it to CumminsNW or the local dealer -- both are costly options, I reckon. Especially if it's something I'm just doing wrong.



-jon-

 

[pnwradar]

Well, MikeR verified that it's a puzzler -- couldn't find anything obvious, nor would it start up. I'm going to see if any of the local carparts places have an OBD-2 reader they loan/rent out, failing that I'm going to buy the one from Alex Peper and see what specific codes are set, maybe that'll tell me what I need to whack with my little hammer.



-jon-

 

[MikeR]

Jon,

I kept playing the VP44 voltage circut in my mind last night while I was at work to sort out the puzzler, and I'm certain I now know what happened. I'll call you in a couple hours to see if it makes sense to ya. If it is what I think it is, then there will be a big caution($) to folks that install a TST or PE box using the Blue Chip pump cover.



-Mike

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

You and I are thinking along the same lines Mike. If we're right it isn't going to be good news for Jon. When I read that you hooked up the power ground wire to the pump ground wire I cringed. The two pump wires are signal wires, not power wires. By hooking up your power ground to the signal wires you may have fed too much voltage into the pump circuitry and fried it. One possible bit of kinda good news though, if that's what happened you may be able to replace the circuit board with one from someone's pump that's mechanically bad. I believe TST has done this in the past, had one pump that had a mechanical problem, and another one that had circuitry problems - swapped the circuit boards and got a good pump out of two bad ones.



-Steve

 

[pnwradar]

Yeah, my mistake in thinking the black wire was a ground lead. The Blue Chip directions don't describe what the leads do, nor do they describe how to connect your box. Ironic thing is, I already had the ground connection made on the air intake horn bolt, and had to pull that connection, cut the ring connector, and crimp on a new connector to make the mistake work. So I had to go out of my way to F things up.



-jon-

 

[John]

OUCH!

Without really thinking through the black and red Blue-Chip pump wire cause and effect scenario, I almost did the same thing Jon did! Almost! Doh!







On the other hand..... Steve, one thing I'm unclear of; Blue-Chip more or less suggests grounding the black wire from the top of their replacement pump cover (although, as noted before, they don't specifically state to), and Edge suggests grounding their Comp to a bolt near the intake manifold... ground is ground! If the two are connected and run to a good grounding point what's the problem? I guess you lost me in your explanation.



I guess I'm going to have to alter my "trick" wiring harness modifications before I "outsmart" myself too.



Jon, where is the Blue-Chip black wire supposed to be connected (or not)? Or was this wire attached strictly for testing purposes only? If so, why didn't they just suggest using the set screw (stud) for the purpose of checking 12v across the two connections?



Have you found out anything about your Ram one way or the other?



I'm crossin' my fingers!

 

[pnwradar]

The directions from Blue Chip mention to screw in both pins, then test for 12vdc to insure the pump wire lead is properly connected, as compared to the ground lead on the cover. The directions don't go into details of hooking anything up to the cover leads, such as their (or any other) box. The last step says that after you've got 12vdc, reinstall the TPS.



The guess is that although it's a (relative) grounded circuit point, the rest of the components inside the circuit board aren't capable of handling the added load from the COMP box, and connecting the COMP ground to the black wire sent some juice where it didn't belong.



IMO, unless you're hooking up a Blue Chip box (or one that might require the baseline/ground signal), remove the black wire from the cover before installation. Might save you from writing Piers a check for a new pump. No one to blame but myself, you know the phrase . . .



-jon-

 

[John]

cheer up buddy

Hey Jon,



I talked to Piers late this afternoon about the Blue-Chip replacement pump cover. I believe he told me that the black wire from the top of the replacement cover is used to connect the Blue-Chip Wizard FMS system.



I also Emailed Blue-Chip earlier this afternoon however, I received no response before departing from work.



I know one thing, I will hear a definitive answer from Blue-Chip prior to proceding though.

 

[MikeR]

Right-ee-ooh. It's kinda hard to understand the two terminals unless you've had experience with the Blue Chip boxes. The two terminals are + signal terminals for only Blue Chip boxes... eveyone else's boxes only use one terminal.

To anyone else wanting to install a TST or Edge box to the BC pump cover, only attatch your red pump wire to the pointy-screw terminal and attatch your box's ground wire to the intake/block or you will fry your injection pump solenoid in a matter of seconds!!



-Mike

 

[John]

The following is what I received from Blue-Chip Diesel in response to my question pertaining to the red and black wires on their replacement VP44 pump cover:



John,



The black wire is for our Blue box or FMS box. That is where we get ground. Use the ground that Edge wants you to use.



Jane



And there you have it!

 

[boatman]

Way do you guys think mine has been working OK with the ground hooked up to the pump cover?

 

[John]

boatman, I'm thinking (based on your input in the Blue-Chip pump cover thread in the 24v forum) that Jon and I were correct all along! I believe the Blue-Chip ground connection/black wire from the top of their replacement cover will work for a ground.



However, I'm still not so sure that I'm going to go ahead and hook my Edge Comp up this way... at least not yet.



What I would really like to see happen is Jon check his OE VP44 solenoid wire that he pierced via the Blue-Chip cover set-screw...



if it is pierced all the way through and was found to be touching any metal (most likely grounded), then as they say, we have a winner!

 

[Bob Wagner]

Jon is the truck fixed yet?



Thanks,

Bob

 

[pnwradar]

It's not fixed yet, but the replacement injection pump should be here today or tomorrow. Ought to be installed by the weekend, lord willing and the creek don't rise (or dump another foot of snow in my driveway!).



I don't know why boatman's works, and mine broke. I know that when I put the COMP back on, I'm going to hook up the ground wire to an intake bolt. I'll also slowly run in the pointy screw, stopping once I've got a solid +12vdc signal, to be certain I'm not running it in too far. If anyone else wants to work on why/how it breaks expensive VP44 pumps, go ahead, but be sure to park your truck someplace warm first.



-jon-