TS MP8 - any thoughts?

[turbo lcc]

What are you guys seeing for HP gains and drivablity with the TS MP8?

 

[turbo lcc]

so no one runs the MP8?

 

[jwilliams3]

I have a ramifier its the same as the MP8.

Works good, but I can't turn it up all the way or it will throw a code and shut the engine down.

 

[JCleary]

I have a Ramifier, supposedly the same as the MP-8.



It sure does make power, and helps me blow some major smoke, but I'm not convinced that I like it. It seems to be adding pressure always, not just when turned up. It makes the injectors rattle quite a bit, too. Way more than the quad boxes I had.

 

[DennisPerry]

JCleary,



The MP-8 is derived from the Ramifier. The MP-8 will add pressure according to throttle position and MAP sensor reading. If the MP-8/Ramifier is being used as a stack then you will probally need to send it in to have the program adjusted to achive maximum performance. It can usually be turned around in one day.



Dennis

 

[turbo lcc]

Dennis

Do you still have the TST tune for the MP-8?

 

[JCleary]

JCleary,



The MP-8 is derived from the Ramifier. The MP-8 will add pressure according to throttle position and MAP sensor reading. If the MP-8/Ramifier is being used as a stack then you will probally need to send it in to have the program adjusted to achive maximum performance. It can usually be turned around in one day.



Dennis

Thanks Dennis. I did not know that. I'll be giving you a call here shortly

 

[DennisPerry]

Turbo Lcc,



Yes we still have the TST stack tune, it seems to be very popular.



Dennis

 

[JStieger]

Turbo Lcc,



Yes we still have the TST stack tune, it seems to be very popular.



Dennis

What's different with the TST stack tune? Is is still aggressive on the low end, but now backs off on the upper end to not get the full 100 HP?



I too sometimes notice the MP8 rattly noise on my truck, but my rail pressure gauge, tapped right off rail pressure sensor, doesn't show that much low end pressure difference between MP8 = 0% and say between 30% - say maybe 300 psi or so. Could this + 100 HP injectors be enough to cause conditions similar to advanced injection timing though??? (The noise occurs even with the TST on 0x0).



The MP8, even by itself, is pretty fun though! It reminds me of the VAC3. 1 I had on the low end, but for sure doesn't let off on the upper end.

 

[DennisPerry]

JStieger,



When you added the 100hp injectors it will changed the timing on the engine. I am getting ready to install 100hp injectors and 2 stages of Nitrous on ours so I will be refining the MP-8 for this application as well. Stay in touch over the next couple of weeks and I will let you know what we have found, then you can send yours in and we will do the same to it.



Dennis

 

[SRadke]

Love it in a TST stack! I havn't found a pressure box I like better paticularly due to the infinite in cab adjustability of the Ramifier.

 

[JStieger]

When you added the 100hp injectors it will changed the timing on the engine. I am getting ready to install 100hp injectors and 2 stages of Nitrous on ours so I will be refining the MP-8 for this application as well. Stay in touch over the next couple of weeks and I will let you know what we have found, then you can send yours in and we will do the same to it.

Sounds good!

 

[CATCRACKER]

what advantages does the ramifier have over the ez stack if any? ie. drivability,adjustability,safety(rail psi),horsepower.



I am still hearing the tst ez is still the best stack. i had and ez on my 03 and did not like it! but i would still use it in a stack if still proves to be good. I am looking hard at the ramifier. (yea i know i dont have a truck but i have the money for mods in a sock just need the CPA to come of the funds for a truck :-laf )

 

[JCleary]

According to the guy who answered the phone at TS Performance, the Ramifier is not supposed to increase pressure blindly. Basically what they're implying is that the box does not raise pressure over 26,400psi. I guess they must be doing some magic with boost fooling and pressure to create power increases via timing changes by the ECM.



I'll know how much pressure it uses as soon as I get a rail pressure gauge installed.



I chose the Ramifier because it's in-cab adjustable, something that's not available on the EZ for SO/HO trucks.

 

[SRadke]

In cab adjustability is the huge advantage.

 

[DLeno]

According to the guy who answered the phone at TS Performance, the Ramifier is not supposed to increase pressure blindly. Basically what they're implying is that the box does not raise pressure over 26,400psi. I guess they must be doing some magic with boost fooling and pressure to create power increases via timing changes by the ECM.



I'll know how much pressure it uses as soon as I get a rail pressure gauge installed.



I chose the Ramifier because it's in-cab adjustable, something that's not available on the EZ for SO/HO trucks.

So far in my experimentation, I find that all rail pressure gauges and pressure boxes that hook up to the on-board rail pressure sender are without exception blind to rail pressures above about 26,400. The sender saturates at that point, and does not report anything higher. My experimental data suggests that all pressure boxes above about 65-80 horspower gain (at the rear wheels) probably raise rail pressure well into the 28,000 region even though all the electronics (and those who believe the measurement) think that actual rail pressure is no more than 26,400.



Thus, be sure to use your rail pressure gauge wisely, for it WILL lie to you for all rail pressures above approximately 26,400. In other words, rail pressure might be 28,000 and your gauge will report 26,400. Additionally, my data suggests that ALL fueling modules or boxes connecting to the rail and the MAP sensor only are limited to "seeing" rail pressures below 26,400 for this very reason, and are therefore not at capable of any visibility to pressures higher than that. Additionally, the saturation point of the sender depends on what is hooked up to it. In some cases I have seen saturation occur at 23,500 psi even when actual rail pressure is probably more like 27,000.



Timing and duration changes most certainly occur even with "simple" (connecting to MAP and rail only) pressure boxes, because this is the ECM's way of correcting what it thinks is low rail pressure. Otherwise we would never see pressure boxes acheiving even 90HP, which would otherwise require about 30,000 psi in the rail. But this does not preclude the physical pressure in the rail from exceeding the electronic limit of the pressure sender. Experimentation with a wide variety of boxes showing the relationship between horsepower and rail pressure reveals this behavior of the rail pressure sender and the falicy of any claim that pressure does not exceed the natural electronic limit of the sender.

 

[JCleary]

So far in my experimentation, I find that all rail pressure gauges and pressure boxes that hook up to the on-board rail pressure sender are without exception blind to rail pressures above about 26,400. The sender saturates at that point, and does not report anything higher. My experimental data suggests that all pressure boxes above about 65-80 horspower gain (at the rear wheels) probably raise rail pressure well into the 28,000 region even though all the electronics (and those who believe the measurement) think that actual rail pressure is no more than 26,400.



Thus, be sure to use your rail pressure gauge wisely, for it WILL lie to you for all rail pressures above approximately 26,400. In other words, rail pressure might be 28,000 and your gauge will report 26,400. Additionally, my data suggests that ALL fueling modules or boxes connecting to the rail and the MAP sensor only are limited to "seeing" rail pressures below 26,400 for this very reason, and are therefore not at capable of any visibility to pressures higher than that. Additionally, the saturation point of the sender depends on what is hooked up to it. In some cases I have seen saturation occur at 23,500 psi even when actual rail pressure is probably more like 27,000.



Timing and duration changes most certainly occur even with "simple" (connecting to MAP and rail only) pressure boxes, because this is the ECM's way of correcting what it thinks is low rail pressure. Otherwise we would never see pressure boxes acheiving even 90HP, which would otherwise require about 30,000 psi in the rail. But this does not preclude the physical pressure in the rail from exceeding the electronic limit of the pressure sender. Experimentation with a wide variety of boxes showing the relationship between horsepower and rail pressure reveals this behavior of the rail pressure sender and the falicy of any claim that pressure does not exceed the natural electronic limit of the sender.

I've read your articles in the TDR and watched your posts here. I totally agree with what you're saying. Very logical.



My mistake is in assuming that the box manufacturer is cognizant of the rail pressure sensor limitation. It never occured to me that they would just assume that their max readings of 26,400psi is accurate, rather than the sensor being saturated. I suppose they program their boxes to command more pressure until they get the readings they want on the dyno.



My reason for wanting a rail pressure gauge is so that *I* may limit the amount of additional pressure. If I have an adjustable box (i. e. Ramifier) I'll be able to turn it up just enough to get to the saturation point, and keep the pressure at what I would feel is a safe level.



How's your rail pressure gauge coming? Do you have any pics you can share with us yet? I have not yet purchased the SPA. Perhaps yours when it's ready...

 

[DLeno]

yea, the adjustable ramifier should allow you to do just that. the irritating part will (probably) be that even at low HP settings, rail pressure will ramp to to the saturation point very quickly. TDR issue 48 discusses the pressure versus horsepower slope, which is approximately 13 RWHP per 1,000 psi rail pressure, with saturation at 40 HP. This means that at around 40 horsepower gain (this is data from the 555 engine) you will already acheive 26,400 psi. Therefore, a box that actually DOES limit rail pressure to 26,400 is only giving 40 horsepower, and a box giving 90 horsepower will raise rail pressure considerably higher than that. 90 horsepower and 26,400 psi are just not possible at the same time (again, this is with a simple pressure box, test data on the 555 engine).



I had a minor set back in my rail pressure gauge. the sample prototypes had some accuracy issues at high pressures, so I am working through a change to correct that. But the good news is that whats left is just fine tuning! unfortunately, no pics yet -- final artwork is not yet done.

 

[DennisPerry]

JCleary,



Good Questions and concerns. The new MP-Display that is being released in Feburary has an actual rail pressure feature on it. You will be able to set min. and max limits. It will also feature the heads up display so you can watch it on your windsheild while driving down the road without taking your eyes from the road. If you exceed a set limit of any of the 4 RPM, Boost, Fuel Pressure, EGTs the Heads up display will begin flashing on your windshield and will be highlighted on the monitor.



As a test on our 03 Dodge I took the rail pressure to 30,000 psi to make sure we were able to read accurate pressures at that point. Results were proven and you can easily read above 26,000 psi to 30,000 psi per the factory sensors.



Dennis

 

[JCleary]

JCleary,



Good Questions and concerns. The new MP-Display that is being released in Feburary has an actual rail pressure feature on it. You will be able to set min. and max limits. It will also feature the heads up display so you can watch it on your windsheild while driving down the road without taking your eyes from the road. If you exceed a set limit of any of the 4 RPM, Boost, Fuel Pressure, EGTs the Heads up display will begin flashing on your windshield and will be highlighted on the monitor.



As a test on our 03 Dodge I took the rail pressure to 30,000 psi to make sure we were able to read accurate pressures at that point. Results were proven and you can easily read above 26,000 psi to 30,000 psi per the factory sensors.



Dennis

Sweet! Oo. How'd you do that? Are you estimating CP3 pressure output based on what the ECM is trying to correct, or is it an actual reading off the sensor?



Have you tried the Marine relief valve yet to see if it holds any more pressure?