Well I just blew up my stocker, There is a hole in the compressor houseing the size of a quarter where the blades came shooting out. My tst was only on 6/6 so I think that setting is to high. I also just had the box reflash. But I still love my TST more than anything. Just gave me a resone to get twins. I think the TST runs perfect with an EZ stack. with TST on 5/5 and the EZ on the secret setting.
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tst and turbos
- Thread starter BRayls
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EZ on secret setting, That thing must have ran like a rapped ape!!
Yo Hoot
TDR MEMBER
Don't blame a box that gives you the option of going over what a stock engine can handle. The instructions say not to go over a total of (6) hp/tq on a stock truck. If you go over, you risk many problems.
It's a known fact that the small stock turbo with it's quick-spool characteristics (emissions) will twist off the shaft on a hard accel/decel.
Also. . right from TST...
"Exhaust temperatures will limit towing total wheel horsepower to about 340 to 360 wheel horsepower (power levels settings 3 to 6). Larger turbos are the only thing we have found to reduce exhaust temperatures such that more towing power can be used (maybe 20 to 40 more horsepower), but larger turbos typically have surge problems at lower engine speeds and high altitudes loosing some of the gains. Twin series turbos are the only setup that keeps exhaust temperatures safe with the PMCR on its top setting, however these are expensive and would typically require studding of the head to keep head gaskets from leaking. "
It's a known fact that the small stock turbo with it's quick-spool characteristics (emissions) will twist off the shaft on a hard accel/decel.
Also. . right from TST...
"Exhaust temperatures will limit towing total wheel horsepower to about 340 to 360 wheel horsepower (power levels settings 3 to 6). Larger turbos are the only thing we have found to reduce exhaust temperatures such that more towing power can be used (maybe 20 to 40 more horsepower), but larger turbos typically have surge problems at lower engine speeds and high altitudes loosing some of the gains. Twin series turbos are the only setup that keeps exhaust temperatures safe with the PMCR on its top setting, however these are expensive and would typically require studding of the head to keep head gaskets from leaking. "
Oopsie daisy, Ma i think i broke the truck. i lost count of how many times i have called home asking mama to come rescue me with the trailer and a borrowed truck 
TST's boxes dont get the notoriety of other's who spend more on advertising, but they do pack a lethal punch. i still havent put my PM3 Comp on level 9 and let it eat for more than just a feeeww seconds
TST's boxes dont get the notoriety of other's who spend more on advertising, but they do pack a lethal punch. i still havent put my PM3 Comp on level 9 and let it eat for more than just a feeeww seconds
I've learned enough about the TST and turbos in the last few weeks to write a small book but I'll try to put it in a nutshell so that I don't bore the masses. This is all opinion and first hand experience (flame suit on).
First of all the programs:
New Flash. The new program is milder in how the fueling comes on to be easier on single turbos and has the fueling levels slightly more spread out. However, it will still give you 200hp over stock. It starts fueling at 10 lbs and is all in by 34 lbs. This allows the fuel to come in over a longer period and let a single turbo spool without spiking and killing itself with shaft load and heat.
Twins Program/Aggressive Program. These programs are one and the same straight from the horses mouth. Piers verified this on a call to Mark. This program starts fueling at 1 lb and is all in at 12 lbs. A great match for slower spooling twins but a single killer on all but the lower levels.
Secondly, Turbos:
You couldn't pay me enough to run the aggressive program with a single and even the new flash can be harsh if your single spools fast. I ran it with the b1-04 and still never went over 5x5 + pressure because it was just too hard on the turbo and temps were too high for my liking. A fast spooling single still lets the new program pour on the fuel due to the boost mapping and how quickly the TST sees this boost.
Twins are great but most still won't be able to run the higher levels. The TST is still too much duration on higher levels. Read on and you'll see that it really doesn't matter. This is a 200hp box regardless of what max level you get it on.
People are way too hung up on what level they can run instead of how much power they are making. If the TST came without level numbers and just had up and down arrows you would get on a dyno and turn it up until it made max power or the power began to fall off. You would then sit back, look at the graphs and say "HOLY COW!" 200hp from just one box. It wouldn't matter what unknown level you were on. Through conversations with Greg (who has been awesome to work with on programming) he stated that I would find max power at about level 5 with the aggressive flash and about level 7 with the new flash. I confirmed this on Piers load dyno after trying both boxes before and after the twins install. Almost identical max numbers above certain levels (twin numbers stayed the same and single numbers stayed the same) before power went down and temps went up.
I asked Greg why they didn't just spread the 200hp over the 9 levels so that people could use all available levels and he told me that they are confident that someone will come out with a "HotRod CP-3" to maintain rail pressures and then users would have even more power and be able to use the higher levels. Once you start to see the power dropping off your dropping the rail pressure too low with the extended duration. They were seeing the rail drop to the 16,000 range when it should be at 23,000. This is also why the EZ is slightly stronger on the top end than my VA stack. It's pushing the CP-3 a little harder.
It would save people a lot of broken parts if TST would change the advertising to read "We make xxx hp" instead of "We make xxx hp on level 9x9". Do I love this box? HeII yes! But you need to use common sense. If your spiking the boost from 0 to 40 in the blink of an eye then your going to kill turbos, PERIOD! Twins aren't the answer to the higher levels. The higher levels are too much duration and the power goes down. No amount of air is going to cure this. Twins however have allowed me to run at max hp (for my combination) with no more egt worries and without stressing my turbos. I can make 484 hp and keep temps to the high 1100* range now. Higher levels just raised temps and dropped power. An EZ would push me over 500 but I prefer the adjustability, bottom end, and driveability of the VA. I could care less about what level shows on the TST. All I care about is what the dyno says and how the truck drives.
Bottom line, this IS a 200hp box if people would forget about levels (run the truck where it makes max power) and pay attention to egt's AND how hard they are hitting thier turbos.
jm. 02
Richard
First of all the programs:
New Flash. The new program is milder in how the fueling comes on to be easier on single turbos and has the fueling levels slightly more spread out. However, it will still give you 200hp over stock. It starts fueling at 10 lbs and is all in by 34 lbs. This allows the fuel to come in over a longer period and let a single turbo spool without spiking and killing itself with shaft load and heat.
Twins Program/Aggressive Program. These programs are one and the same straight from the horses mouth. Piers verified this on a call to Mark. This program starts fueling at 1 lb and is all in at 12 lbs. A great match for slower spooling twins but a single killer on all but the lower levels.
Secondly, Turbos:
You couldn't pay me enough to run the aggressive program with a single and even the new flash can be harsh if your single spools fast. I ran it with the b1-04 and still never went over 5x5 + pressure because it was just too hard on the turbo and temps were too high for my liking. A fast spooling single still lets the new program pour on the fuel due to the boost mapping and how quickly the TST sees this boost.
Twins are great but most still won't be able to run the higher levels. The TST is still too much duration on higher levels. Read on and you'll see that it really doesn't matter. This is a 200hp box regardless of what max level you get it on.
People are way too hung up on what level they can run instead of how much power they are making. If the TST came without level numbers and just had up and down arrows you would get on a dyno and turn it up until it made max power or the power began to fall off. You would then sit back, look at the graphs and say "HOLY COW!" 200hp from just one box. It wouldn't matter what unknown level you were on. Through conversations with Greg (who has been awesome to work with on programming) he stated that I would find max power at about level 5 with the aggressive flash and about level 7 with the new flash. I confirmed this on Piers load dyno after trying both boxes before and after the twins install. Almost identical max numbers above certain levels (twin numbers stayed the same and single numbers stayed the same) before power went down and temps went up.
I asked Greg why they didn't just spread the 200hp over the 9 levels so that people could use all available levels and he told me that they are confident that someone will come out with a "HotRod CP-3" to maintain rail pressures and then users would have even more power and be able to use the higher levels. Once you start to see the power dropping off your dropping the rail pressure too low with the extended duration. They were seeing the rail drop to the 16,000 range when it should be at 23,000. This is also why the EZ is slightly stronger on the top end than my VA stack. It's pushing the CP-3 a little harder.
It would save people a lot of broken parts if TST would change the advertising to read "We make xxx hp" instead of "We make xxx hp on level 9x9". Do I love this box? HeII yes! But you need to use common sense. If your spiking the boost from 0 to 40 in the blink of an eye then your going to kill turbos, PERIOD! Twins aren't the answer to the higher levels. The higher levels are too much duration and the power goes down. No amount of air is going to cure this. Twins however have allowed me to run at max hp (for my combination) with no more egt worries and without stressing my turbos. I can make 484 hp and keep temps to the high 1100* range now. Higher levels just raised temps and dropped power. An EZ would push me over 500 but I prefer the adjustability, bottom end, and driveability of the VA. I could care less about what level shows on the TST. All I care about is what the dyno says and how the truck drives.
Bottom line, this IS a 200hp box if people would forget about levels (run the truck where it makes max power) and pay attention to egt's AND how hard they are hitting thier turbos.
jm. 02
Richard
The boost map is what makes the bottom end of the new flash softer. Even with my twins I'm having Greg (as we speak) cut my TE levels in half on the aggressive/twins program that I run. At just TE 2 the PDR twins spool beautifully. Why have 7 more TE levels when I don't need them? Cutting the TE levels in half will allow more adjustability with my VA on the bottom side. If you want more bottom end it would be worth a call to Greg to see if he can alter your boost map to say, 4 lbs to 25 lbs. In my opinion the hot version is too much for a single (due to the agressive boost map) but a fueling map that started at a little lower boost and was all in a little sooner may be safe if you have a strong single. Talk to Greg and see what he thinks.
Richard
Richard
well I am sitting here looking at the instructions that came with the box and it says nothing about were you should stop on a stock truck. it only says you should not TOW above 6, meaning 3-3 , 4-2 or what ever. I guess I should not have said junk as I really did not mean that. but if I was selling something claiming it can make xxx power on a stock truck with only a clutch and pusher pump, I would expect it to do so. now I will say this had we gone farther than 20 feet I would give you the fact we was asking for it. but like I said our local shop said "thats why I do not sell them ,mark need to tell people that this can and will happen,on a stock truck which he does not". I would buy this box in a second if I could use the power,(had twins). by the way I will scan the paper work here and e-mail to anyone who says it has some content that it does not. not bashing the box just the lack of telling what will happen till you call after it did. now I have read here before about this but never dreamed it would happen in 20 feet/ under 30 lbs on the gauge.
Yo Hoot said:
Don't want to hijack this thread or anything but from all that I've read about these stock turbos going bad it seems like it is 03 or 04 not the 04. 5. I lost one on my 04. 5 but that was before the TST, the bearing was bad allowing the compressor wheel to lightly scrape the housing. I guess my question is, are the turbos on the 04. 5 that much stronger than the others or is it just the number of users??? Does anyone know the difference in shaft size between these two, this seems to be the weak point.
Okay let's review
you have access to this site where there are numerous posts about the TST box eating turbos ...
your local shop won't sell 'em just for that reason ...
despite this you intentionally ILLEGALLY modified your truck FAR beyond its original design ...
and to top it off you ran down the road turned around and set it on 9x9
and now you are upset because you broke your stock turbo
:{
and it's all TST's fault ?
you have access to this site where there are numerous posts about the TST box eating turbos ...
your local shop won't sell 'em just for that reason ...
despite this you intentionally ILLEGALLY modified your truck FAR beyond its original design ...
and to top it off you ran down the road turned around and set it on 9x9
and now you are upset because you broke your stock turbo
:{
and it's all TST's fault ?
But that's just it... you DON'T need twins to use this box. I've been running my setup (DD Jammer, TST, EZ) for about a year now, putting down a little over 500HP, without a single issue (other than tire wear, that is). I run my EZ on level 4, and my TST on 5x5. Like Richard, I found my best power level there (on the dyno). Yes, I'm running the TST at half it's capabilities... so what? I'm putting down about 250HP over stock... I don't NEED to turn the box up any higher.
Now, with that said, yes... there's a brand new set of PDR twins sitting on my shelf, just waiting for me to drop them in. Again, as Richard said, this will be mostly for EGT control (because I can't maintain 500HP output for very long, before EGT's start to get out of hand... I can run a 1/4-mile, but that's about it). But the point is, myself, and many others, are running a TST on a single charger truck, without issue.
-Tom
It's been a while but doesn't it say in TST's install instructions something about settings 6-9 for race or competition only? I thought they even mentioned the need to upgrade other parts of the truck to use these settings? They may not have mentioned the turbo there, I can't remember but I know they did earlier in the towing suggestions where they talked about egt's getting out of hand.
-Scott
-Scott
I agree that TST should change their advertising. On the other hand, if your smart enough to modify a vehicle you should be smart enough to start at the bottom with any power enhancements and move your way up. That's like taking a brand new race motor out and putting it on the mat first pass just because someone else says it's ok. I don't think so.
At the same time how can I knock a manufacturer that sells me a device that's rated at 150hp increase and delivers 200hp? I can't.
Richard
At the same time how can I knock a manufacturer that sells me a device that's rated at 150hp increase and delivers 200hp? I can't.
Richard
SRadke said:
Yes they do. Straight from my install instructions...
Power Level 5, TE Level 5: Good for driving when you really want a big increase in power. Not recommended for for towing applications due to stress on the drivetrain. Use this as the highest setting for stock 6 speed manual clutch.
Power Level 6-9, TE Level 6-9: For COMPETITION ONLY. Exhaust temperatures will be extreme. Aftermarket clutches required for manuals and valve body and torque converter upgrades for automatics. Fuel pressure monitoring suggested and auxiliary pusher pump likely required.
Richard
to clear it up, no I did not break MY turbo, it was a buddy. not blaming tst for the broke turbo ,just the fact that they do not say it will and in ads claim you can. as gypsyman points out just what the paper work says. extreme egt's is not going to happen in 20 feet of throttle which is all the turbo lasted. just as the boost gauge was moving it popped. I was riding . I seen ,as I was watching the gauges not the road. this topic is about over for me as all seem to think any negative thing said about the tst is as though your cutting their throats.2broke2smoke said:
I didn't mean to be negative and in no way did I mean to single anyone out. This info NEEDS to be out there to keep people from breaking things. I'm not sticking up for TST at all. I'll be the first one in line to agree that TST needs to give people more info on what they can and cannot do with stock components. They're advertising and claims are what cause most of the problems, not the box.
I don't believe that egt's are the culprit in this case. With the TE turned up to 9 the immediate load on the shaft of the turbo has to be unreal. The other cases of this that I have read about stated the same thing. It seems to happen so fast that the pyro doesn't even have time to react.
Hope none of my comments were taken as personal attacks. If so I apologize.
Richard
I don't believe that egt's are the culprit in this case. With the TE turned up to 9 the immediate load on the shaft of the turbo has to be unreal. The other cases of this that I have read about stated the same thing. It seems to happen so fast that the pyro doesn't even have time to react.
Hope none of my comments were taken as personal attacks. If so I apologize.
Richard
Richard you are not, a problem. I agree with you 100%. when you read this ,have a problem and call. they tell you well you should not have done that, they know why not say so from the get go. thats all I am saying . as we all know once we do the deed " we are our own warrantee stations". I posted this topic for people to see not cry. Barry
Gypsyman said:
Well said Richard.
On another note, what HP/TQ level do you guys think I should run the TST on w/ my current mods (in sig). I don't want anther F--- UP
!
Gypsyman,I thought there was 3 different programs. I have box #1388 Mark told me to send it back if I wanted the new softer progam as it was a little smoother,he told me that the t. t. program was way to aggresive for a single and I would not be able to use the cruise control either. He also said that anyone that tried the t. t. p. with a single sent it back to get reprogrammed . Not sure what to do as i am getting twins soon. I hope you are right as it will save me some shipping charges.
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