TST PowerMAX2 still flickers

[Archive]

I recently spoke to Mark Chapple at TST products about the annoying fuel light flicker in the PowerMAX. I also told him of my high EGT when running at high altitudes (8000ft - 11000ft). If I am pulling hard I could easily bury the pyro gauge beyond the meltdown point (1350 mounted pre turbo).

Anyway, Mark suggested that I try a PowerMax2. He said they have made some improvements that should help the green light flicker and resulting strange engine noises and bucking. If anything, the flicker is worse on the new box! Could there be something else wrong?

Also it feels like the "new" PowerMax2 has LESS power than the original PowerMax! It backs off the "fuel enhancement" at about 2500 rpm which makes the improved powerband relatively narrow. The original box kept rippin' all the way to 3000rpm. (never pushed it beyond that).

I have noticed that the new box does keep my EGT a little lower but I am guessing that is becuase less fuel is being added at the higher revs.

Does anyone have any experiences with the PowerMax2 as well? I am tempted to go back to my original unit. I havn't sent it back yet.



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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar.
SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares

 

[Archive]

Sean:

I also started out with the Powermax, and have been very happy with the power. The annoying flicker when shifting is really a pain, especially since I shift most of the time without the clutch, and slowly let RPMs drop by feathering the throttle. When shifting in this manner and maintaining partial throttle, the green light really flickers, and it sounds like the motor is really making some ungodly racket, somewhat like a bad injector.

Like you, I ordered the PM2, and installed it yesterday. The flicker is still there, and yes, the fuel is derated at about 2700 RPM. With the PM, the fuel kept on pouring past 3400! Folks at TST told me that with the PM2, the fuel tapers off sooner for safety reasons. I'm ok with this, because I don't like to take my truck over 2900 anyway. Chappel has indicated that the flicker may be due to inadequate wiring connections, but I haven't been given a definitive answer. We may have to live with the flicker.

As for performance, I took my Capri Cabover camper off tonight, and will be doing some 0-60 and max horsepower tests tomorrow using the G-Tech on board performance computer. I'll post my results and we'll see which PM puts the most power to the ground. It may be a wash, because while the PM2 is supposed to provide about 120 additional foot pounds of torque, it does so over a more narrow RPM band. This may hurt otherwise superior 0-60 times. Since I mainly tow, 0-60 times aren't that important, but it should be interesting. After I do a little "testing," I'll decide whether to send in my old" PM, or give 'em back the PM2.

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1998. 5 3500 QC, 2X4, 3. 54 limited slip, 5-spd, K&N, ISSPRO pillar mount pyro & boost, 275 hp injectors, 4" Dynomax Race Flow exhaust, Clarion CD, Rockford Fosgate power, Kicker solobaric, Husky floor liners, Capri Rodeo Delux Cabover, AWESOME TST POWERMAX!!

 

[Archive]

Thanks! I'll be watching for your results. I was going to "upgrade" to the PowerMax2, but I like the power across a wide band. So keep us posted!

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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 4" Exhaust elbow down, PowerMax1, dang near everything else
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com

 

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Ross, why in the world would you want to shift without using your clutch? I know that if the clutch starts going you can do this to keep the truck running down the road, but aren't you abusing the transmission by doing this? I would think so. Tell me what I'm missing?

John

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1999 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab 5 spd; 4:10 LSD rear; Mag-Hytec diff. cover; Speedliner spray in bed-liner; Amsoil foam air filter; Smittybuilt step rails; JVC 12 disk CD system; Windows tinted; Manual transmission filter kit; Geno's EZ Drain oil pan plug; US Gear EGT and Boost gauges on a twin A pillar mount. Towing a 31 ft. NOMAD single slideout TT.
Rammin' and Runnin' the roads

 

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John: I shift without the clutch about 50% of the time. When I'm in a hurry, and need to rip through the gears, I use the clutch. When I can take a more leisure approach, I shift without it. All big rigs are shifted without using the clutch, although the large 10 & 13 speed trannies are of the non-synchronized version, unlike our NV4500s. I drove big rigs for a while years back, and I guess shifting "clutchless" sort of stuck with me. As for "abuse," I don't consider it abuse unless you don't do it properly. When done properly (no grinding allowed), there is no clutch slippage whatsoever, which should lengthen clutch life.

I have wondered if shifting this way is hard on sychronizers, but I personally have had great luck with all of my manual transmissions. My 93 chevy 4-door dually was shifted this way, and it's still going with 200,000 miles and no transmission problems. My mechanic (I trust him, over 30 years experience)says it'll help save the clutch.

I would like some input however. If there is data out there that convinces me to stop shifting this way, I'd like to know about it. If it's a bad thing, I'll stop immediately. Until then, I'm BOM-ing clutchless!

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1998. 5 3500 QC, 2X4, 3. 54 limited slip, 5-spd, K&N, ISSPRO pillar mount pyro & boost, 275 hp injectors, 4" Dynomax Race Flow exhaust, Clarion CD, Rockford Fosgate power, Kicker solobaric, Husky floor liners, Capri Rodeo Delux Cabover, AWESOME TST POWERMAX!!



[This message has been edited by Ross (edited 11-10-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

I do the same thing! The clutch on my last truck lasted to 190,000 and the transmission was still going strong at 275,000 miles when I finally upgraded to the RAM.

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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar.
SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares

 

[Archive]

Ross/Sean, Not sure about this but I think it is less expensive to change the clutch than it is to replace the synchros in the transmission. I hope that at the least you are changing out the bronze filled transmission fluid on a regular basis. Just another opinion.

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99 2500, QC, SLT, 4x4 ISB, 5sp, 3. 55sld, Infiniti am/fm/cd, HDTcase, NW Running Boards and Mud flaps, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver Hitch, Tekonsha Brake Control, SRW and Husky Liners.

 

[Archive]

Old habits die hard.


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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar.
SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares

 

[Archive]

I'm not a truck driver by profession but I've driven lots of class 7 & 8 trucks/tractors with 9,10,13 & 15 speeds, and shifted most - but not all - of the time without using the clutch.

I learned to drive on the farm using International trucks (the old 1940/50 "K" and "L" series, Bill Stockard) with 4 & 5 speed mains and 3 & 4 spd auxiliaries (Brownies) and 2 spd rear axles; then graduated to the bigger trucks with 5/4 and 6/4 transmissions - so I do know how to shift if it's necessary.

I don't think shifting without the clutch - if you know what you're doing and how ( and when) to do it properly - and when NOT to do it - will cause any extraordinary damage.

I would say the only variable in this equation is the relative strength and quality of the manual transmission in these pickups vis-a-vis the Fuller transmissions in the bigger rigs. Or, (and this is where my experience is worthless) if the design of our transmissions for some reason(s) doesn't lend itself to clutchless shifting, as do the larger ones.

Just my penny's worth -

I will say one thing for us - we've gotten about as far away from the original subject as we could and still be discussing Rams... Your fault, John - damn tech-heads won't take anybody's word for anything - just joshin' ya of course... .

Rob

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1999 2500HD 4x4 SLT Driftwood QC LB 3. 55LSD 5spd Camper/Tow, Custom Built(Deer Hunter Model)Brush Guard w/PIAA Pro 90's, PIAA Platinum Headlamp Bulbs, Diamond Plate Bed Caps w/full frt&rr DiaPlate Protectors - LT255/85R16 Kelly Safari AWR's on order, etc.....

[This message has been edited by Rob Myers (edited 11-10-1999). ]

[This message has been edited by Rob Myers (edited 11-10-1999). ]

 

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Being a member of the "Never driven anything bigger than my Ram 2500" crowd, I'd be interested in what the proper procedure is for clutchless shifting? I've certainly had the standards I've driven fall-out of gear without the clutch pressed in when I was a bit anxious on the stick and let the RPMs fall, but I've never tried to put a vehicle into gear without using the clutch.

Gary

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2k Dodge Ram 2500 QC, Cummins 24v Diesel, 5-Speed Manual, SLT, 4x4, Full-Length Bed with Spray-On Ultimate Lining

 

[Archive]

Enough about shifting... ... As promised, I went out and tested both the Powermax, and the Powermax2 through the quarter mile. Here are the results:

Powermax
16. 76 @ 87. 2 mph = 363. 7 hp
16. 90 @ 86. 8 mph = 359. 6 hp

Powermax2
17. 14 @ 84. 6 mph = 331. 6 hp
17. 23 @ 83. 8 mph = 328. 5 hp

Stock*
17. 70 @ 81. 4 mph = 295. 9 hp

* The stock numbers are not really "stock. " Enhancements include Bosch 275 hp injectors, K&N air filter, 4" Raceflow muffler, and installation of the either Powermax allows boost to exceed the maximum stock level of 19 PSI to around 26 PSI.

These numbers were all recorded using the G-tech performance computer. I used a vehicle weight input value of 7100 pounds. Horsepower values were computed using the horsepower formula from Edelbrock's website (0. 00426 x mph)3 x vehicle weight. I shifted at 3000 rpm for each run. The slowest Powermax 2 run (17. 23) was due to excessive wheel spin at launch. Not fast, but fun!

As I suspected, the "lower" hp version (Powermax) results in faster quarter mile times because the PM2 tapers fuel delivery at 2700 rpm. This allows the lower hp version to continue to pull up to the shift point of 3000 rpm. The PM2 slows down noticeably at about 2800 rpm.

These numbers don't really tell the real world applicability of either box. To really determine which box provides the best power, I need to hook the trailer up, and head to some steep hills. While the drag strip antics were fun, I spend most of my time towing (as do the readers of the board), and that's what I'm trying to enhance. The PM2 may provide the most torque at a useable RPM. I will continue to post results as they are available.


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1998. 5 3500 QC, 2X4, 3. 54 limited slip, 5-spd, K&N, ISSPRO pillar mount pyro & boost, 275 hp injectors, 4" Dynomax Race Flow exhaust, Clarion CD, Rockford Fosgate power, Kicker solobaric, Husky floor liners, Capri Rodeo Delux Cabover, AWESOME TST POWERMAX!!

 

[Archive]

Sorry to get back to the original subject... but...

Does anybody out there have a PowerMax that doesn't have the flicker problem. Every one I have seen or heard of acts just like mine. If they all do it, I doubt it is a problem with the wiring unless it is inherent in all the TST PowerMax harnesses.

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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar.
SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares

 

[Archive]

Ross,

You said your PM2 backs off at about 2800 RPM. If I watch my boost gauge mine backs off starting at about 2300RPM. The boost will drop from about 31psi to about 28psi and then gradually drop to about 25psi when it reaches 2700rpm. From there it will continue to drop to about 23psi at 3000rpm. Is this similar to what you are getting?

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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4 5spd, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar.
SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares

 

[Archive]

My PowerMax fuel light flickers just a little bit only when I let off the throttle very slowly as in cresting a grade and only for a couple of flickers. When I shift (clutch or no clutch) it has yet to flicker. The other thing is I mounted my box on the dash under the steering column so I have to tilt the steering wheel forward if I want to see the lights. (I thought they might get annoying at night. ) I can hear the fuel sputter when the green light flickers so I guess I really don't need to watch the lights.

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99 SLT SWB 4X4 TST PowerMax, K&N filter, Betterbuilt Tool box, Stainless rocker panels, Dee Zee Brite Tread bed caps, Bear Cat Scanner, Kelly 285 75R 16s,
Always towing a 14000# Walton Goose Neck

 

[Archive]

Sean: Yes, my PM2 boost is behaving exactly like yours; boost starts out strong, then peters out rapidly after about 2700. Since my last post which contained quarter mile times and CALCULATED horsepower values, I have done more test runs using the G-tech to determine horsepower (the G-tech can determine times and speeds, as well as horsepower, but NOT all at once). The horsepower numbers are significantly lower than my other post where they were computed using Edelbrock's formula. Edelbrock's formula determines flywheel hp, and does not account for parasitic frictional losses, whereas the G-tech determines actual rear wheel horsepower to the ground. Given this, the numbers make some sense and are not that out-of-whack.

Here are the G-tech results:
Powermax hp: 279
Powermax2 hp: 252

Needless to say, I'm sending the new PM2 back tomorrow. Also, in keeping with the topic, yes, both boxes have the same "flicker. " I do plan to plug in the new MAP sensor harness supplied with the newer PM2 to see if it has any effect on the "flicker. " I'll post any changes this brings.

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1998. 5 3500 QC, 2X4, 3. 54 limited slip, 5-spd, K&N, ISSPRO pillar mount pyro & boost, 275 hp injectors, 4" Dynomax Race Flow exhaust, Clarion CD, Rockford Fosgate power, Kicker solobaric, Husky floor liners, Capri Rodeo Delux Cabover, AWESOME TST POWERMAX!!



[This message has been edited by Ross (edited 11-11-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Good info on the PM and the PM2. Thanks Ross. By the way, curiousity got the best of me and I tried shifting without the clutch. There is a knack to it, but I didn't grind anything. I'll stick with the clutch though.

John

[This message has been edited by John Berger (edited 11-11-1999). ]

 

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ALLLLRRIIGGHHTT JOHN !!!!!!!!!

Way to push the envelope, we're proud of you !! Now if you can just keep with it long enough to get used to it... . LOL

Rob

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1999 2500HD 4x4 SLT Driftwood QC LB 3. 55LSD 5spd Camper/Tow, Custom Built(Deer Hunter Model)Brush Guard w/PIAA Pro 90's, PIAA Platinum Headlamp Bulbs, Diamond Plate Bed Caps w/full frt&rr DiaPlate Protectors - LT255/85R16 Kelly Safari AWR's on order, etc.....

 

[Archive]

A HUGE Thank You on the PM2 info. I'm lovin' my PM1 more every minute.

As for the flicker -- mine does it to and it doens't bother me in the slightest. My opinion is it has something to do with the turbo spooling down when the clutch is engaged since the PM's 'trigger' is when boost is 2+ lbs. No big deal.


However, another question of PM users. Under just the right throttle conditions the entire truck (exhaust?) shudders something fierce. Sounds like someone's in the bed with a jack hammer -- seriously. Anyone know why? I've kind of learned how to prevent this by applying throttle the 'right' way.

-- added later --
Maybe my exhaust is loose? Looking under it I would think it needs a couple more brackets...

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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 4" Exhaust elbow down, PowerMax1, dang near everything else
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com



[This message has been edited by Mark Kitchell (edited 11-12-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Mark, you might check with Scott1 - he described the same noise/feeling - "shudder" - however, he said that's why he went to the 4" exhaust, which you've already done, so ???

Anyway, it might be helpful - at least you could determine whether your problem is similar to the one he experienced.

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1999 2500HD 4x4 SLT Driftwood QC LB 3. 55LSD 5spd Camper/Tow, Custom Built(Deer Hunter Model)Brush Guard w/PIAA Pro 90's, PIAA Platinum Headlamp Bulbs, Diamond Plate Bed Caps w/full frt&rr DiaPlate Protectors -

 

[Archive]

I also have the light flicker, but can hardly notice it, does not bother me at all.
Those of you that have ran both the pm1 and pm2, does the pm2 have more power at any rpm? and if so is it noticable.

I have what I would describe as a groan sound at about 1500-1700 rpm if I really get on it while loaded or going up hill. Don't know if this is the shudder spoken of. I have thought it was from trans or drive line (I have a 5spd)
Brett