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Tug Of War:bulldozer Or Locomotive?

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Considering the operating weight of the Komatsu D575A is 336,000lbs, it should easily outpull a locomotive which weighs more but has around 100,000 lbs tractive effort with steel wheels on steel rail. I beleive Tractive Effort is the horizontal force a locomotive can generate before the wheels slip.



Vaughn
 
Trivia information - the GE locomotive engine has its roots in the Cooper-Bessemer FVBL-12-T and FVBL-16-T engines. Cooper-Bessemer manufactured these engines in its Grove City, PA facility and sold these engines to GE for locomotive service for many years. GE finally purchased the design and manufacturing rights to these engines and began manufacturing them in its new Grove City, PA (no coincidence) facility.



Just a little historical background... . ;)



Rusty
 
You fail to state what size of tractor you would like to see. As someone who has operated Cat's up to the D10 size, I don't think that it would out pull a locomotive. But never having driven or even been on a locomotive I think it might be a stand off with the D10, not sure, but I think the locomotive would prevaile. But then again you don't see many locomotives going down an 10% grade with 40+ some yards of dirt piled up in front of a big "U" blade and the tractor gaining speed. IMOH that is the best high.

WD
 
It is all about traction or the lack thereof

the average traction ability of a locomotive is about 1/4th its weight due to the coefficient of friction of steel on steel



depending on what surface the bulldozer is on, it can probably generate better than half its weight as tractive force and would win in that case



the amount of horsepower they generate really does not come into play as both have more than sufficiency power to spin their wheels/treads against a load, a simple matter of gearing in the bulldozer and 0 rpm torque ability in the locomotive traction motors
 
Off on a tangent

Ever since I played Army (1970's), I've always wanted to see a head on collision between a locomotive and a Main battle tank (M60, M1, dosen't matter). Call me sick, but it'd be spectacular!



KK
 
Train would win... . it will most likely derail but it will win. Abrams is only about 60 tons wieght. An EMD GP (4-axle) locomotive is around 120-140 tons, the SDs (6 axle) are 160-210 tons. GE locomotives are the same wieghts as the EMDs.





Then there is the train wieght behind the locomotives too. :)



Eric is right about traction being everything. tractive effort wins the game here.



WDaniels... . not to slam the dozer "high" or anything ;)



but how about a 15,000 ton coal train going down a 2-3percent grade? Better hope the dynamics are up to par... if not... . its a wild ride because the air alone isnt going to hold it back.



Cajon Pass in California is a good example of this operation (no coal traffic there though).



BTW... . I'd take either "high" anyday!!!! Oo. Oo. Oo.
 
EDM Diesel Power,

I once saw a discovery special on the Cajon Pass disaster(I think it was that one) and the multiplication of little things that brought on the disaster. I'm sorry but when the things start south on those trains, you are in deep kimshee. By time you pass the point of no return you are toast and might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your Ahem goodbuy. I'll stick to the old D9G's. They are my favorite Cat.



P. S. After pulling an old trommel gold extractor from one site to another I can tell you that they(the cats) will not generate 145,000 lbs of tractive force. It took a D9N high sprocket and a D9G to push it up a hill. Granted it was about a 20% grade but with as much tractive force that Mr Garrett was talking about we should have run up that hill with that trommel.

WD
 
Originally posted by WDaniels

... 10% grade with 40+ some yards of dirt piled up in front of a big "U" blade and the tractor gaining speed. IMOH that is the best high.

WD
Better high Warren. Try a D-9 with three 4 foot rippers all the way down in soild sandstone, hill so steep you're gaining speed in neutral, feet on the dash. :eek:
 
Originally posted by RustyJC

Trivia information - the GE locomotive engine has its roots in the Cooper-Bessemer FVBL-12-T and FVBL-16-T engines. Cooper-Bessemer manufactured these engines in its Grove City, PA facility and sold these engines to GE for locomotive service for many years. GE finally purchased the design and manufacturing rights to these engines and began manufacturing them in its new Grove City, PA (no coincidence) facility.



Just a little historical background... . ;)



Rusty





I worked inside the GE plant for a few days, gave me a chance to snoop on those engines.



I decided even with air bags, I could not get it into my truck bed. :(



The Bessemer has closed its doors. No doubt a plant that the locals thought would be there forever.
 
Originally posted by Sled Puller

The Bessemer has closed its doors. No doubt a plant that the locals thought would be there forever.

Yep, a sad day! There was a lot of great history in that place. Since it was an old plant (original parts of the plant dated from the 19th century), you wouldn't believe what the cost per standard hour was just to keep the doors open - one of the primary factors that finally drove the last nail in the coffin. :(



Rusty
 
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Illflem,

Were you on a YO YO? Gaining speed with a tripple rip bured up the frame isn't my idea of a high, more like a serious pucker factor. And those cat's seats have heavy duty covering, especially if your pucker is making little round holes in the seat cover. :-laf When we use the rippers, it's in permafrost and you can't pull more than one shank through it. The ice is just to hard. You can't touch the handles or pedals, just have to let it go where it wants to or you will snap the shank. 2 years ago we had one guy that wouldn't get the idea to leave the handles alone and he broke 3 rippers is 2 days. The welders were really POed at him. One of them told him if he broke another one that they would break something on him and were serious. He didn't break anymore.



Bighammer,

We had the 9N towing from the front with it's ripper through a 2 inch cable and the 9G pushing from the rear.
 
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Speaking of Cooper - Bessemers, we are still running them for natural gas compression on the pipeline system. It's getting a little difficult to find parts lately so we try not to break anything!!

A great slow running engine and compressor unit. Some have been in service since back in the '30's.
 
The Komatsu 575 A is in a league of it's own for dozers. The company I worked had one and it could rip out caliche(sp) almost the size of a big rig tractor. :eek:



At over $600 an hour with an operator, yes an hour, you would expect that kind of productivity.



I don't know anything about locomotives so I don't know how they compare, sorry,
 
Originally posted by EMD Diesel Power

but how about a 15,000 ton coal train going down a 2-3percent grade? Better hope the dynamics are up to par... if not... . its a wild ride because the air alone isnt going to hold it back.



My average coal train is 16000 tons.



From the Apex in the Moffat Tunnel damn near all the way to Denver its 2% downhill grade. Roughly 45 miles or so.



Pucker factor is come around a curve and theres rocks in the middle of the track.
 
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