turbo question for you guys

[JLitton]

I am currently running my stock turbo on my 03. I have the opportunity to pick up a turbo from a 6. 7 motor. Will this work? What benefits would I get? What all needs to be done to make this work, if it will work?



Currently, when pulling my 13K fifth wheel I am running into pyro heat problems. On long or steep pulls, I go to 1200 really quickly. I have more pedal to go, but the heat keeps me feathering it to keep it below 1200.



Thanks in advance and I look forward to seeing your input and advice.

 

[sag2]

It will not work as there is no way to control the actuator. I suppose you could set it for max boost and leave the actuator unplugged, but that defeats the purpose of a variable output turbo. Better of getting a turbo that is matched to your requirements.

 

[JMarketos]

my 0. 02:
High EGTs can result from gearing as well.
If the engine RPMs are (relatively) low and the engine ends up operating at high boost for an extended period of time... that typically results in (relatively) higher EGTs than if the same pull were to be made at the same speed etc. in a lower gear, allowing the engine to run at higher RPM.

I don't know much about the 47RE relative to the 48RE (as in mine), but I do know in the 48RE there's a pretty big difference between 3rd and 4th gears (RPM-wise). It's not practical to run at highway speeds in 3rd gear with mine, as the RPMs would be near 3000 steady.

The engine often has enough torque to muscle it in 4th gear, but (we) get the resulting associated high EGTs. Also the turbo doesn't operate as efficiently at elevated temps. This is precisely why I ended up installing a Gearvendors overdrive unit. (run the trans in 3rd and engage the GV OD, which gives effectively something that is mid way between stock 3rd and 4th. ) The result (for me) was highway towing RPMs changed from about 1700 (stock in 4th) to about 2000-2100 (with GV engaged, stock trans in 3rd). The engine feels much "happier" (if I may... ) going up hills, and terminal EGTs are much lower now that it's spinning faster. My towing MPG went from 10-11 stock, to 14-15 with the GV. That is measured, hand calculated. (20 ft haulmark enclosed box, total trailer weight ~ 7K, I know that's light for most of you!)

One disadvantage to the GV- you cannot use an exhaust brake with the GV in OD mode. You have to take the GV out of OD in order to apply the exhaust brake.

 

[AH64ID]

It will work with a stand alone controller from Fleece performance. You will also gain an exhaust brake.

 

[CKelley1]

just listen to me and ah64id the fleece controller works perfect on the he351ve and on your 03. on the 03 1350* is the limit. your truck is set up nice except for the auto, cant stand them. the maxbrake is the best on the market.

 

[JLitton]

will the benefit from this turbo be worth the money or should I just wait and get an aftermarket turbo? I don't want to change it, just to change it.



Thanks for the compliment on the truck. I don't need a racetruck, I just want a bulletproof truck that can pull the fifth wheel, or whatever else, with ease and without worrying about breaking something.



The maxbrake and the smarty went on at the same time, I'll tell ya, the Maxbrake may be the better improvement. I like the smarty, but man the difference when you pull a trailer with the maxbrake is amazing!

 

[AH64ID]

The HE351VE is a good unit, same comp wheel as a HE351 but a better turbine wheel and the variable vanes!

Really the cost of a HE351VE install, if you do the labor, is roughly the same as an exhaust brake and you get a better turbo!

 

[CBari]

Will the fleece controler also work as an aftermarket exhaust brake controll and keep the tc locked up on the auto. Does anyone know of someone or personally used the fleece controller. I keep thinking I would like to try this setup as I have a line on turbos for nothing just not resold on the controler.

 

[seafish]

The HE351VE is a good unit, same comp wheel as a HE351 but a better turbine wheel and the variable vanes!

Really the cost of a HE351VE install, if you do the labor, is roughly the same as an exhaust brake and you get a better turbo!

This Fleece set-up seems VERY cost effective, certainly with a factory take-off turbo from eBay!!!

Some questions... .

How does the HE351VE compare to your Garret GT378 BB in terms of --

spool-up?
top-end ?
drive pressure?
and longevity??

If you had NOT already had the Jacobs Brake, would you have gone for this set-up??

Is the exhaust brake integrated with the Fleece controller in a way that lets the ECM activate the EB, or does the fleece controller do it independently of connecting to the ECM and still allow for proper and safe activation of the EB function (momentary delay to allow for defueling??)

Thanks for any info!!

 

[JLitton]

All very good questions that are directly in line with the info I am looking for.



Do we have any fleece users out there?

 

[AH64ID]

This Fleece set-up seems VERY cost effective, certainly with a factory take-off turbo from eBay!!!



Some questions... .



How does the HE351VE compare to your Garret GT378 BB in terms of --



spool-up? Could be the same/faster if you tune it that way

top-end ? Slightly less flow, lower PR, and higher discharge temps

drive pressure? depends on the tuning, but probably higher per boost lb

and longevity?? I HOPE the GT is longer lasting!

If you had NOT already had the Jacobs Brake, would you have gone for this set-up??



Is the exhaust brake integrated with the Fleece controller in a way that lets the ECM activate the EB, or does the fleece controller do it independently of connecting to the ECM and still allow for proper and safe activation of the EB function (momentary delay to allow for defueling??)



Thanks for any info!!

I had a HE351VE in the garage for months waiting to be installed this spring. I had talked to Fleece several times about operation and was excited to give it a try. I eventually learned some info about the exhaust brake thou and sold the turbo. The EB is not controlled thru the ECM, but rather thru the Fleece controller. This means that TPS is the signal is uses (along with speed, coolant temp, etc) for actuation. The problem is that on our trucks when the cruise control is set the TPS goes to 0. This means you can't use the CC and EB at the same time. This is something I do EVERY time I tow! If you are just getting an EB and not set in your ways, or coming from a 2nd gen where you can't use both in conjunction, or don't care then its a good setup.



If they simply had an input into the control box from the ECM Pin's for EB operation you could use the ECM logic and get much better operation.

 

[seafish]

THANKS for the replies!!
That's an interesting problem with the EB control...
Just to clarify, you're not saying that by turning on the CC the Fleece Controller will then engage the EB, but simpy that when using CC the EB will NOT work ??

I wonder how that issue could be addressed??

ALSO, you have me wondering if the Fleece Controller follows EB engagement protocols that are safe for our engines (a SLIGHT delay in engagement to allow for ECM defueling to prevent unsafe back pressures ((am I describing that right??))

All that being said, I would love to have an integrated turbo/EB in my truck...

 

[seafish]

I am also considering this turbo--

Switchblade Turbocharger --- Blaylock Turbochargers

But they have not yet integaretd an EB function into the controller, although apparently it CAN be done !

 

[AH64ID]

THANKS for the replies!!

That's an interesting problem with the EB control...

Just to clarify, you're not saying that by turning on the CC the Fleece Controller will then engage the EB, but simpy that when using CC the EB will NOT work ??



I wonder how that issue could be addressed??



ALSO, you have me wondering if the Fleece Controller follows EB engagement protocols that are safe for our engines (a SLIGHT delay in engagement to allow for ECM defueling to prevent unsafe back pressures ((am I describing that right??))



All that being said, I would love to have an integrated turbo/EB in my truck...

I understood that it would try to engage the EB when the CC was engaged, but have never tried.



It does have some delay's built in so its safe.



You could wire it thru the ECM and then have the ECM tell the module to engage the brake, but you would then have the ECM delays as well as the Fleece delays, and any VNT delay. . just a much slower engagement. Not as ideal as it easily could be.

 

[JHumphries]

My BD Brake is supposed to be connected to the ECM (haven't verified since I just bought the truck) It does use the Pedal Position Sensor to activate.
If you engage cruise, the exhaust brake will activate when you let off of the accelerator.

Question: I know the 3rd gens had exhaust brake functionality built in, but does it actually kill the fuel?

 

[AH64ID]

My BD Brake is supposed to be connected to the ECM (haven't verified since I just bought the truck) It does use the Pedal Position Sensor to activate.

If you engage cruise, the exhaust brake will activate when you let off of the accelerator.



Question: I know the 3rd gens had exhaust brake functionality built in, but does it actually kill the fuel?

On any diesel there needs to be zero fuel being injected for exhaust brake use, luckily all diesels go to zero fuel with the TPS is at 0, cruise off, and rpms are above idle.



If your EB engages when you let off the throttle with the CC engaged it is not using the OEM ECM, and the pedal position sensor agrees with this. There is no need for a pedal position sensor on a EB that uses the ECM for its logic. It sounds like someone did their own wiring as the 06 install instructions use the ECM.

 

[oldturbonut]

just listen to me and ah64id the fleece controller works perfect on the he351ve and on your 03. on the 03 1350* is the limit. your truck is set up nice except for the auto, cant stand them. the maxbrake is the best on the market.

Hi,just came across this thread and have question. I assume you are using the fleece controller and I am trying one out myself and I would like to know how you program it and how do you gage the results when you make adjustments to program? Appreciate any help you may be able to offer.

Thanks

oldturbonut

 

[seafish]

Well, I have been doing ALOT more research on using an HE351ve from a 6. 7L CTD take off and using a Fleece controller to work the vanes.
The easeist way to install the turbo is by also using a 6. 7L exhaust manifold AND a 3rd gen downpipe.
The rest of the work involves plumbing oil and water cooling lines to the turbo, as well as wiring the controller.
All that being said, I am seriously considering using a 2nd gen exhaust manifold becuase I LIKE the way they seem to be more balanced in exhaust flow, though I have NOT made a final decision on which exhaust manifold to use yet.

In short answer to your question, the programming is done using laptop software from Fleece that lets you adjust different parameters of the turbo, INCLUDING maximum braking power, spool and top end. In essence, you get to customize the flow map of the turbo for your truck within the parameters of the HE351ve and your fueling upgrades. I have NOT used or seen the software yet, but I do know that if you are having ANY problems with the software, controller or tuning of the turbo, I would call Fleece Performance directly... they have a very good customer service reputation and they want to see your turbo upgrade run right!!

If you already have this turbo and controller installed on your truck, PLEASE let us know how you did it (with pix?? Oo. Oo. ) and how you like it.

While it seems very few people here on TDR have done this mod (although I think that CKelley did it), there are many people doing this conversion on Cummins Forum and Diesel Bombers snd other sites. These are a few of the best links I have found, though they are centered around using a 2nd gen manifold and there are others that use the simpler 6. 7L manifold to mount the turbo.

Here are the links--

He351ve setup - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

Installed he351ve using 2nd gen manifold - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

Got the HE351VE on - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums

Hope this helps!!

 

[seafish]

Here is another link with more info--

2003 - 2007 5. 9cr & he351ve - Competition Diesel. Com - Bringing The BEST Together

And ANOTHER--

Fleece Turbo controller he351ve - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

 

[seafish]

Also a photo of a 5. 9 exhaust manifold next to a 6. 7.