Here I am

turning up my pump today. few questions first!

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Block Heater

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with the proper gauges and a good head on your shoulders, you shouldnt ruin anything, mileage, yea maybe... haha, truck drivers have been turning pumps up to ungodly levels, for years. it used to be not that uncommon to see a truck at night with a good flame out the stack, that buddy, is some dang fuel!



those stripped threads are more than likley where he took the factory clamp off and the treads came with it. that what happened to mine. if you havnet done the 366 spring yet, that is a must. it really lets the pump get the fuel it need in the higher rpm bands. she dont quit with the 366 let me tell ya :D



To hell with the spring! Last one I played with got the stock spring safety wired shut! and pump slamed all the way against the head:eek: Call me a moron if you like. That old dog (ext cab 2wd stock auto) got well into the 16s in the quarter with ONLY pump tinkering.
 
It is clear that you do not know what you are talking about... I was there designing trucks. YOU were not... . And for your information there were a lot

of changes made to the chassis in 94 . Especially to the automatic transmissions... Hp ratings are as much creative advertising math as they are factual data... . Things are not always what they seem.



While we are on the subject of tampering with injection pumps. .

I guess I should also mention that tampering with the fuel systems on these trucks is a direct violation of various FEDERAL EMISSION CONTROL laws.

The fines are stiff . Some include jail time. . Go to U. S. Environmental Protection Agency

for more info... Many of the state governments are already proposing that all

of the diesel trucks be included in the future for emissions inspection...

So get ready. Its going to expensive to get the older trucks to pass... .



At times it is not a bad idea to engage brain before opening mouth... Or at least get your facts straight before you start giving advice to others. .



As for the rest of the questions you asked... They don't deserve an answer.

Go back to school for 6 years. Get your degree in Automotive engineering.

Then work your way threw the ranks at one of the big 3 for 30 + years and you will have all the answers you should need... If you are still confused after all that. Come talk to me and I will be glad to fill in all the blanks then. .





on what planet?! :confused:



this is the most irresponsibly false load of BS I've read on here in a while...



got a mystery you might be able to solve for me... on the 2nd gen 12v trucks, how is it that the power rating on the automatic trucks was increased from 160 to 180hp with no changes to the rest of the driveline or engine? just pump and injector differences... :confused:



how is it that the power rating on the manual trucks was increased from 175hp to 215hp? :confused:



how is it that the power rating on my 98 12v is roughly 600hp at the flywheel and my original 220k mile rear end and transmission are holding up great, the engine has no excessive blowby, and still gets 19-20mpg at 75mph? :confused: that's almost tripple the rated horsepower when it rolled off the assembly line.
 
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Many of the state governments are already proposing that all

of the diesel trucks be included in the future for emissions inspection... 

So get ready. Its going to expensive to get the older trucks to pass... .



FYI Connecticut has had emissions testing for diesels for many years. My truck passed with flying colors, so did my son's 94 that is really turned up... so have most or all of the others locally I have talked with.



FYI I also have been in the automotive business for 30 years. . we should swap horror stories over a beer some day. LOL
 
No one said nothing would ever break turning up the pump. It was mentioned that the power was set to where it was at the factory because of warranty issues... implying things may not last as long with more power.



As I see it, there are two types of people in this forum. There are the ones who bought a Dodge diesel to have a reliable vehicle built strong enough with enough power from the factory to take care of the jobs they need done from towing to plowing to hauling and still get decent mileage and still be in one piece after several hunderd thousand miles. All the more power to them, leave it stock, it will save you a lot of headaches and it will still do what you need it to. I hold nothing against you.



Then there are the people who bought a Dodge diesel knowing the amount of aftermarket performance parts that are made for them, knowing the easy power they can make, knowing that with some tools and a little bit of know how they can make 3 tons of metal move faster than anyone would ever imagine could be done with gasoline motors. The phrase is routinely uttered on here "you are your own warranty station. " It is, and should be more than clear that when changing anything from stock, expecially adding horsepower... . some things can and WILL break. Before breaking that first bolt loose on the AFC housing on the fuel pump, before writing the check for those high flow injectors, before asking anyone about how to make power, before searching the internet for quick answers... anyone with half a brain knows that something can and will go wrong at some point or another. More so, it is also know that the amount of things that go wrong and break will be directly related to the amount of power increase and also the amount that the power is used. This is in fact common knowledge.



It is also known that pushing the accelerator pedal futher down more often burns through more fuel, and thus it is also known that doing anything that increases the amount of fuel flow when you push the accelerator pedal down further also has the POTENTIAL to burn through more fuel than the previous setting. This is once again, common knowledge.



I bought my truck almost 4 years ago now. In that time I have cranked everything my wallet would allow me to crank. I've driven it like a sports car, I've driven it like a baja truck, I've driven it like a mudder truck, I've driven it like a trail truck, I've driven it like a rock crawler, and I've hauled with it more than the springs should ever hold, and I've towed with it more than my last transmission rebuild shop told me I should. I have baja'd over 5 foot tall snow piles at 40mph, I've jumped "speed humps" at 80mph, I've raced everything from a bmw to vw tdi, I've towed my other truck, towed moving trailers, towed cars, I've hauled 4000lbs of decorative stone in the bed, I've pulled dozens of cars out of ditches for fun, and I've buried my truck to the diffs in mud. I have a graveyard of broken parts consisting of 3 turbos, 4 transmissions, 2 sets of tie rod ends, 3 drag links, 6 u-joints, 2 driveshaft yokes, 5 steering gears, 3 steering gear mounting plates, a radiator, a flex plate, hundreds of dollars worth of blown up exhaust pipe, hundreds of dollars of leaked oil/antifreeze/transmission fluid/ps fluid... I've had a wheel fall off, dropped a driveshaft on the road, had my steering break loose, have numerous times had exhaust leaks into the cab, my truck doesn't shut down without hitting the manual shutdown lever, I have an oil leak, a coolant leak, and a transmission fluid leak, I have to buy a new set of tires every year, add to all this I have 20 driving related tickets, 19 of which are since I bought this truck.



All this (except maybe the tickets) are things I expected before I made any attempt to change anything on the truck. For that matter, I expected some of these when I bought a 12 year old (at the time) farm truck that had seen it's share of abuse by a farmer who expected a lot of out it and thats what he got. It was bone stock except for air bag suspension in the rear, a gooseneck hitch in the bed, and a trailer brake that wasn't exactly hooked up right. I knew going in that things would break and they did. As did all of us expect that it wouldn't always go exactly as planned. As does anyone with any vehicle with any motor and any drivetrain that has made any attempt to "supe it up" "trick it out" or "pimp my ride. "



We are the other type of person on this forum. We are the Tim Taylors always looking for more power (arr arr arr), we want to be faster than the guy next to use, bigger than the guy stuck in the mud hole, and louder than our buddies diesel truck with a custom exhaust and a cranked up pump. Some of us have money, and most of us have ingenuity.



We don't hate you for leaving your truck stock. We respect you for your contentment, restraint, and reserve. We envy you for the money you save on parts. We appreciate you picking up the slack showing how reliable these trucks really are because all our friends an co workers will never believe us that its our own fault they break all the time. We are happy to share this forum with you and to have your wisedom shared in this pool of knowledge with our own.



But the forum was titled "turning up the pump today, a few questions first" and not "should I or should I not turn up my pump. " There was no reason to come in here and start a fire fight over whats going to happen when you turn up the pump. Both sides know what will happen. One side is just more willing to accept the outcome than the other. Try going to a drag car forum, a rock crawler forum, or a mud truck forum and telling them they should leave their vehicle stock and insulting their intelligence for wanting to change it. An off-the-lot jeep won't climb rocks, an off-the-lot mustang won't run 10s, and an off-the-lot pickup won't make it through a mudhole. So we change them. That's what sets us apart and thats where the glory is in winning the drag race, or the mud run, or the hill climb, because we built it like that, not cause we bought it like that.



This forum is a wonderful place where both type can share knowledge and experience from both sides of the fence over a common gathering of a particular type of vehicle with a particular engine. This post though, is directed toward the second type of people, the question was asked of the second type of people, and the responses should have been from the second type of people or at least with respect to the second type of people. We want you to share your knowledge of the autmotive industry and of our trucks with us, but if all you're planning on doing is shooting down our ideals, there are plenty other intelligent people on here running twice the stock horsepower that can point us in the right direction and warn us of what might break FROM THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE. So you worked for whoever doing whatever where ever, where some engineer told you that this or that is the tested limit of any given part. Big whoop. There's a million miles of experimentation reading this post as you are. If you have any bit of pertinant information, keeping in mind that no matter what someone with a stock truck says about what will happen with a non-stock truck, his fuel pump will be turned up soon, the please, feel free to post. If not, I'm sure there is another post somewhere on here where someone with a little more reserve and a little less... curiosity... is wondering how to do their first brake job.
 
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20 driving related tickets, 19 of which are since I bought this truck

Holy crap... and they still let you drive? :-laf:-laf I think in Ct I would have lost my licence a very long time ago.



Seriously though, real world DOES mean more than lab testing. . I can bear that out with personal experience based on my 30 years in the auto business supplying to the big 3 and other oems. We have over tested most assemblies and components yet still some fail in the field that make no sense. And many of our lab failures would survive forever in the field. That's life.

Yet would we give up lab testing? Not on your life... and trust me I worked on safety critical parts (steering) in addition to non critical parts (engine).



But I'm thinking we can still all get along based on the fact that nobody knows everything and we all continuously learn.



Cheers
 
I never said get rid of lab testing. It is neccesary. Its the first line of defense against unreliability. The second being recalls from on the road experience.



I am an engineer for a company that makes bar and restaraunt equipment, so trust me, I am not smacking on the engineering process. But there are a lot of things that come into play that will cloud what we can do from the desk. For starters, the real world has so many variables that we could never track them all. Second, there are so many codes and laws and standard that are in place, some of which are completely acinine and are counter productive to building a strong reliable product. Third, factor of saftey. If you tell someone their truck can tow 15,000lbs GCWR, expect someone to double that, and cover your butt for when someone pushes it too far and it breaks. And forth is cost, and cost of the competition. If brand A can build it for $20,000, why can't you? I don't care that brand A's product has been known to fail if you stand on top of it it, because I don't plan on standing on it. And thus the standard is set low. My point is not to mock the way things are done, my point is we're not all 16 years old with our first car living under anyone else's roof here. We are adults, we have some bit of responsibility, we can make our own choices, and we pay for our own mistakes. If dude wants to crank his truck to the hills to the point that it sets a land speed record and then burns up in a blaze of glory at the finish line... let him do it. He wasn't asking if he should, he was asking how. I'll move back in with mommy and daddy if I want someone to tell me im stupid for spending all this time under the hood of a 15 year old truck.
 
Matt, the longest post I've ever seen from you? Well said!



I respect Terrys knowledge and experience. But I have noticed here and on another forum that he was kinda ranting over turning up engines. I was a little offended.

I hope he rethinks the way he posts things as he's not expressing himself as an experienced truck owner and Dodge engineer.
 
Great post, TSC. I didnt know you were that elouqent. I'll expect more from ya from now on... ...



I can see both sides of the proverbial fence. I have had stock trucks that did ok, got decent mileage, and lasted til the next owner bought it. I have also owned trucks that I used to empty my wallet in the name of R&D (Don M's EDMs come to mind :rolleyes: ), or were just fixing up a previous owner's mistakes/ neglect/ nightmare (there's a reason some of them go for under a grand). But, I have had the trucks in the middle (91 4x2 comes to mind) that were slightly turned up, maybe a 3. 5" exhaust with a performance air filter, that had as much power as a then new truck (2002), yet got much better mileage (24-25). I personally have come back around to that stage- I want more than 160hp/ 400tq- maybe 230/600- but am focusing more on economy and longevity than beating that Duramax with the triple stacked chips and Stage 3 injectors, etc, etc. I'll leave that to the ones like TSC. If I can get 18-20MPG with a fully loaded shoeing rig that'll go another 500K above the 290K on it now, I'll be tickled.



I have spoken with mysteryman on the phone on a few occasions, and he is still very passionate about the trucks he helped design. I think he sees our ridiculous modifications (in his mind) to our engines, and subsequently, the drivelines, as an affront to what he and his team had to come up with 20+ years ago, in a different time, for a different need. Not many people had daily driver diesel pickups in 1988, and longevity and economy were more important than all-out power. If you wanted power, you bought a big block gasser. I do appreciate his willingness to help us out with these classic trucks, even though his chastisements get old sometimes ;). Just ease up on the guy, he has a right to his opinion.



DP
 
i agree 100% DP. im sure not everybody knows who mysteryman is and his connection to the trucks that form the basis of his opinion. but at the same time, you have the right to do what you want to your own truck, hence your name on the title.



we all know the saying about opinions anyway, just keep that in mind.
 
I have nothing against mysteryman. The posts I've seen him make he seems like a very intelligent person. I don't know his connection to Dodge or Cummins or Rams, but trust me, anyone with any bit of insight is more than appreciated here. If he worked for Dodge as an engineer when these trucks were built thats awesome (I'd also like to ask him for the name and place of residence of the man responsible for the headlight switch).



The team working on building these trucks is the reason we're all here. They did an amazing job and set a standard so high that Ford and GM may never even have a shot at the market share that the Dodge/Cummins possesses. Because of the work they did, there is a forum dedicated to a 15-19 year old truck.



No one says they did a bad job and that's why we're changing things. They did a good job and thats why we're changing things. Because we can. Because we own a truck thats hardy enough to keep on kickin. Because they built a truck strong enough to put up with the driving habits of someone such as myself. Everyone I know asks me why I don't buy something newer/smaller/"better" because I'm always working on my truck. So I've had to replace some parts... true. The way I drive though that thing should have been in dragged to the scrapyard long ago... if it were any other truck.



Don't look at it as we're tearing apart your creation and changing it and *******izing it. Look at it as you've built the most perfect platform to be modified, but built well enough that it doesn't have to be if some are so inclined to leave well enough alone.



Your experience in a lab tells you some stuff will break, my experience on the road tells me some stuff will break. It's the nature of having an automotive hobby like this.



All I'm asking is that we have much respect for you that leave stock alone and we welcome you here, and we just want the same from you.
 
It is clear that you do not know what you are talking about... I was there designing trucks. YOU were not... . And for your information there were a lot

of changes made to the chassis in 94 . Especially to the automatic transmissions... Hp ratings are as much creative advertising math as they are factual data... . Things are not always what they seem.



While we are on the subject of tampering with injection pumps. .

I guess I should also mention that tampering with the fuel systems on these trucks is a direct violation of various FEDERAL EMISSION CONTROL laws.

The fines are stiff . Some include jail time. . Go to U. S. Environmental Protection Agency

for more info... Many of the state governments are already proposing that all

of the diesel trucks be included in the future for emissions inspection...

So get ready. Its going to expensive to get the older trucks to pass... .



At times it is not a bad idea to engage brain before opening mouth... Or at least get your facts straight before you start giving advice to others. .



As for the rest of the questions you asked... They don't deserve an answer.

Go back to school for 6 years. Get your degree in Automotive engineering.

Then work your way threw the ranks at one of the big 3 for 30 + years and you will have all the answers you should need... If you are still confused after all that. Come talk to me and I will be glad to fill in all the blanks then. .



just like a typical engineer... think because you spent a bunch of time and money at school you know EVERYTHING! LOL!



I have been hot rodding for years, I am well aware of the legalities of messing with engines, both gas and diesel.



The thing that kills me is that you seem to think that there is NO WAY to improve the Cummins engine as it came from the factory... NO WAY to do so while still maintaining strength, longevity, and equal or LOWER tailpipe soot emissions!



I contend YOU are the one that needs to engage brain before opening mouth.



two questions:



1. Why waste your time and everyone else's by replying to a thread asking about turning up a pump if you're not going to help the guy turn it up? :confused:



2. Why waste the time and the annual membership fee on a forum dedicated to these trucks with a somewhat heavy emphasis on modification? If there is no way to improve them from the factory and Chrysler and/or Cummins are the end-all/know-all about optimal maintanence and operation of these engines and vehicles, why don't we just drop them off with them whenever there's a problem? :confused: I mean, these are technicians that went to SCHOOLS!! :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Mysteryman, just curious but why don't we see you posting in the dozens of other discussion forums that include threads about modifying engine performance?
 
TDR is a REGISTRY for enthusiasts that in some cases like to preserve the stock original rigs.



What would be worth more on the market, a 'tweeked' messed with truck or a grandpa virgin truck that was never "upgraded"?



Mysteryman is welcome here in my book and he can say and express his opinion however he wishes here. You guys need to just tell him to shove it and do what you want, rather than complain about his opinions and actions, and THEN do whatever you want anyway. If you were all so convicted about the mods you are doing, ya'll prolly wouldn't be getting your feelings hurt as much when you hear a different opinion.



That being said, this is just MY opinion. We'd all get along better, and wouldn't have to resort to personal attacks. That is all. #ad
 
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just like a typical engineer... think because you spent a bunch of time and money at school you know EVERYTHING



Ouch. Please don't stereotype. That hurts. We are not all like that thank you very much. ;)

Personally I'd like to think that BECAUSE I went to school I learned the value of listening to the "experts"... even the self proclaimed ones. There is always something to learn.

I think most of us on this forum believe that whether we are students, bus mechanics, carpenters, ferriers, rock stars, whatever.



What Pepecat said...
 
I have nothing against anyone on this site.



I just don't appreciate it when someone asks a simple question on modifying their truck in some way or form in a setting (this forum) where that is more than welcome, and instead of recieving helpful information, they get a comment/comments telling them that what they are doing is wrong. The TDR is supposed to be a support-site for people that aren't as knowledged in certain areas as others.



I have nothing against Mysteryman, I just hope that the next time someone wishes to state a personal opinion rather than answer a question, think about how it may make others feel. We are all entitled to our own opinions, just know when the appropriate time and manner would be to state them.



Sorry if it seemed anyone was being called out, from now on I hope we can all work together for the benefit or our rigs.
 
Exactly. This was a post to ask how to turn it up. If that's not something anyone agrees with, there's no reason to respond to this post. Everyone is jumping to defend mysteryman and his opinions, but he came in here and backed a lot of people into a corner with some very hard-headed comments about what we like to do. I don't know what he or anyone else defending him expected to happen. We're a bunch of testosterone driven motor heads that are very passionate about what we do... both sides of the fence. The only bit of "stupid" here was "daddy" coming in and telling us what to do with our own property. If the guy wants to paint it pink, pour glue in the fuel tank, and drive it into his pool... it's his truck! Once again, this post was directed toward people who want to crank the hell out of their truck... if this does not fit your description, kindly remove your forceful "opinions" from it. Now for the sake of the comradarie we normally have in this forum, what do you say we let this post cool off and fall to the bottom?
 
Exactly. This was a post to ask how to turn it up. If that's not something anyone agrees with, there's no reason to respond to this post.



That is not exactly true and will limit a LOT of useful information if we all go by that logic. Opposing view points are very important as a balance. IMO, if you only look at the how and not get feedback on the possible consequences you don't have enough info to make an informed decision. Choose to factor in the dissenting opinions or not, but don't deny yourself or others the info.



Mix testosterone with diesel and it is highly flammable. :-laf



Taking mysteryman's post in context of an opinion, there is nothing wrong with it. It could have been worded differently but there are few of us that can lay claim to ALWAYS using the correct tone. ;)



Time to let this go and move on as Tippin' so aptly pointed out.
 
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just like a typical engineer... think because you spent a bunch of time and money at school you know EVERYTHING



Ouch. Please don't stereotype. That hurts. We are not all like that thank you very much. ;)

Personally I'd like to think that BECAUSE I went to school I learned the value of listening to the "experts"... even the self proclaimed ones. There is always something to learn.

I think most of us on this forum believe that whether we are students, bus mechanics, carpenters, ferriers, rock stars, whatever.



What Pepecat said...



tut tut tut... I said TYPICAL... not "ALL" :)



I've got many friends with engineering degrees, and if I had my druthers I would go back and get my ME!!!



I got a little huffy when he implied that I had no idea what I was talking about and needed to engage my brain before I engaged my mouth because I didn't have an engineering degree!!! :mad:



engineers are strangled by bean-counters... if the B series engine was designed with a bottomless pit of money, I promise you it would make more power with less tailpipe emissions than it did.



the implication that it is impossible to improve on the factory setup is disgustingly arrogant and assinine... it's like saying McDonalds makes the best hamburgers because they sell more than anyone else. flawed logic at best, painfully false to anyone with half a brain.
 
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