U-Joint Replacement (#351 or #230-0188 pics included)

[bzingre]

Strength

Anybody know if these greasable joints are as strong as the solid OEMs? I see the difference in trunion size, maybe for added toughness? Second, does anyone make a heavy duty greaseable joint that installs without grinding the yoke?

 

[rbattelle]

does anyone make a heavy duty greaseable joint that installs without grinding the yoke?

Not yet (I don't think).



Jeff (or anyone), if a person wanted to buy an arbor press (hand operated) to handle pressing the joints on this truck, about how big would the throat on that arbor press need to be to accomodate the joint and a couple sockets for the pressing operation.



Not for me... you know, I've got this "friend" who wants to know.



-Ryan

 

[JHardwick]

Anybody know if these greasable joints are as strong as the solid OEMs? I see the difference in trunion size, maybe for added toughness?

There is no doubt in my mind that the greasables are probably stronger. I don't think stregth is the issue here anyway, I've heard of hundreds of dry sticky joints, but no busted joints

 

[JHardwick]

Jeff (or anyone), if a person wanted to buy an arbor press (hand operated) to handle pressing the joints on this truck, about how big would the throat on that arbor press need to be to accomodate the joint and a couple sockets for the pressing operation.

-Ryan

I think any press would have the throat for a ujoint job, only a few inches actually ... ... ... . the problem with an arbor press is getting the tonage required.

 

[rbattelle]

I think any press would have the throat for a ujoint job, only a few inches actually ... ... ... . the problem with an arbor press is getting the tonage required.

1 ton should do it... no? There's a guy in Cincinnati selling a 1. 5 ton Dake on Ebay I might buy if it stays below $50.



-Ryan

 

[JHardwick]

1 ton should do it... no? There's a guy in Cincinnati selling a 1. 5 ton Dake on Ebay I might buy if it stays below $50.



-Ryan

I had a 1. 5-B Dake at the shop. The "B" basically stood for broach, it had the added height for broaching keyways and stuff. I'm not so sure a 1. 5 ton arbor press would work, even with some heat.

 

[rbattelle]

I'm not so sure a 1. 5 ton arbor press would work, even with some heat.

The caps are pressed in with more than 3000 lb force? What did you use to get them out? A sledge?



-Ryan

 

[JHardwick]

BTW, I did the u-joints done on Wed, and did the brakes on Thurs ... ... ... ... ... by Friday morning I hauled a load of hay, and my Friday afternoon I towed a empty trailer to the Ohio river and back home with a mare who had just been bred and had that certain "glow" :-laf



Anyway, all hints of shudder are gone once again Oo.

 

[JHardwick]

The caps are pressed in with more than 3000 lb force? What did you use to get them out? A sledge?



-Ryan

A mini sledge or a heavy ball peen will work with a steel bushing or socket. It's the impact, similar to an air impact, it's the percussion that does most of the work.



EDIT: or is that concussion? :-laf

 

[JHardwick]

The caps are pressed in with more than 3000 lb force? What did you use to get them out? A sledge?



-Ryan

Another thought ... ... ... . A dry joint coming out may required 10,000# of constant force to remove. But, if you lube the new cap and bore with some grease, it may only take 5,000# to drive the new one home.

 

[bighammer]

The caps are pressed in with more than 3000 lb force? What did you use to get them out? A sledge?

-Ryan

I always use a hammer and socket for removal. The rust and crud can make a press or vise just distort the yokes. For installation I use a vise or press.

 

[Blakers]

Another thought ... ... ... . A dry joint coming out may required 10,000# of constant force to remove. But, if you lube the new cap and bore with some grease, it may only take 5,000# to drive the new one home.

When I replaced mine with a 351, I had no problem at all getting it in. I did however, have a problem getting the old one out. I didn't want to put too much strain on the yoke, so I just cut the joint in half with a torch and tapped the caps IN. I've done this before many times and it works well.

 

[JHardwick]

When I replaced mine with a 351, I had no problem at all getting it in. I did however, have a problem getting the old one out. I didn't want to put too much strain on the yoke, so I just cut the joint in half with a torch and tapped the caps IN. I've done this before many times and it works well.

That works good because you are only driving 1 cap at a time and takes less force. I almost got the smoke wrench out, but decided against all the heat and slag.

 

[JHardwick]

BTW, I did the u-joints done on Wed, and did the brakes on Thurs ... ... ... ... ... by Friday morning I hauled a load of hay, and my Friday afternoon I towed a empty trailer to the Ohio river and back home with a mare who had just been bred and had that certain "glow" :-laf



Anyway, all hints of shudder are gone once again Oo.

By Friday night I had towed 2 horses in a 3 horse with living quarters, plus camping gear to camp and back this afternoon.



This shudder is gone once again and I expect it to stay gone this time. Funny thing is, it just sneaks up on you ... ..... you don't realize how bad it was til it's gone!

 

[jwilliams3]

I noticed the "bad" shudder racing a WRX in 5th gear.



That day we changed the U joints. It was all gone after that.



BTW I have about 5 or 6 pulls on the 351's and they still look and feel tight.

I do have one rubber seal on one of the 351's that is cracking up near the transfer case.



Not so bad changing a $30 joint.

 

[JStieger]

"install in compression"

I'm going to be replacing my U-joints soon and came across this awesome thread!



I was always wondering about what does it mean to install U-joints in compression? Does it mean that the zerks have to be pointing a certain way?

 

[rbattelle]

Okay, well I just came back inside from installing new joints in my rear driveshaft.

I find u-joint installs rather hair-raising, because of the forces required to press in the joints and the risk of knocking one of those needle bearings out of line during the press. There are so many "what-ifs" with u-joints. What if the cross isn't perfectly centered? What if the caps are pressed in too far? What if the caps don't press in straight? What if a bearing falls out?

I used Precision 351A's, because as JHardwick points out the 351 cross is just a tiny bit too wide to fit in the yoke. The 351A uses slightly shorter crosses, so it slides in without grinding.

Nevertheless, it was hard to get the snap rings in. In fact, I felt the joints had to be too tight to get the rings in, so I addressed the problem in 2 ways. I either filed down the snap rings so they were thinner, or ground out part of the end of the caps a little bit.

I haven't installed the driveshaft yet (will do tomorrow). I'm nervous that there will be some problem. I noticed one of the joints has the slightest little bit of bind as it's rotated to maximum deflection. You can feel it if you rock the joint back and forth very slowly and gently. You can also hear a very faint rubbing noise. I'm hoping it's just a seal.

I never know just how tight you can make a joint, and the force required to drive the caps means you don't actually get that much choice in the matter!

I know some joints actually bolt in place rather than being pressed. Some day I'd love to modify the driveshaft to bolt together instead of being press fit. Not sure how I'd do it, though.

Keeping my fingers crossed in the meantime. I don't want to do this job again next weekend.

Ryan

 

[bighammer]

Okay, well I just came back inside from installing new joints in my rear driveshaft.

I find u-joint installs rather hair-raising, because of the forces required to press in the joints and the risk of knocking one of those needle bearings out of line during the press. There are so many "what-ifs" with u-joints. What if the cross isn't perfectly centered? What if the caps are pressed in too far? What if the caps don't press in straight? What if a bearing falls out?

I used Precision 351A's, because as JHardwick points out the 351 cross is just a tiny bit too wide to fit in the yoke. The 351A uses slightly shorter crosses, so it slides in without grinding.

Nevertheless, it was hard to get the snap rings in. In fact, I felt the joints had to be too tight to get the rings in, so I addressed the problem in 2 ways. I either filed down the snap rings so they were thinner, or ground out part of the end of the caps a little bit.

I haven't installed the driveshaft yet (will do tomorrow). I'm nervous that there will be some problem. I noticed one of the joints has the slightest little bit of bind as it's rotated to maximum deflection. You can feel it if you rock the joint back and forth very slowly and gently. You can also hear a very faint rubbing noise. I'm hoping it's just a seal.

I never know just how tight you can make a joint, and the force required to drive the caps means you don't actually get that much choice in the matter!

I know some joints actually bolt in place rather than being pressed. Some day I'd love to modify the driveshaft to bolt together instead of being press fit. Not sure how I'd do it, though.

Keeping my fingers crossed in the meantime. I don't want to do this job again next weekend.

Ryan

I'm no expert, but I've probably replaced 20 or more U joints of various sizes. Maybe somebody who really knows this stuff will say I'm all wrong, but what I do when they feel tight is to open my vise and lay the shaft down so that the yoke and 2 caps are laying on the top of the jaws. Then take a hammer and rap on the yoke next to the cap thats pointed straight up. I flip it over and do the same on the other side, then turn 90* and do those too.

If it's too tight to get both retainer rings in, put the cap with the ring on facing up. Hit it a couple solid hits next to it, then flip it over and bump the other cap in until you can get the ring in.

 

[steved]

I'm no expert, but I've probably replaced 20 or more U joints of various sizes. Maybe somebody who really knows this stuff will say I'm all wrong, but what I do when they feel tight is to open my vise and lay the shaft down so that the yoke and 2 caps are laying on the top of the jaws. Then take a hammer and rap on the yoke next to the cap thats pointed straight up. I flip it over and do the same on the other side, then turn 90* and do those too.



If it's too tight to get both retainer rings in, put the cap with the ring on facing up. Hit it a couple solid hits next to it, then flip it over and bump the other cap in until you can get the ring in.

Correct, this causes the yoke to "snap back" into it's original shape after being distorted in a vise/press.



I had mine professionally done... they used a 1480 (?) NeapCo (spicer-ish) joint with custom ground retaining rings. So far so good.



And for the record, when changing the 1480s in my dad's 99 ram; we stalled a 20-ton vise trying to press the old joint out... took a few raps with a hammer (while under strain) to pop them free.



steved

 

[JPereira]

I came across this thread doing some research on u-joints. I have 70k on my truck and still have stock u-joints that I am sure are ready for changing. Are there any greasable u-joints that are now available for our trucks or do I need to follow the same path as this thread explains to have greasable joints on my truck?



Thanks, Jeff