Ultimate Shop

[Demon Dodge]

This is not a diesel topic but it does relate. I am in the designing process with an architect for a new shop. It will be 70 x 80 so I can pull the whole rig in and shut the doors. I am looking for any ideas you guys might have of what all I should incorporate into the shop. It is primarily for my race cars but I will be doing some restoration and diesel work. One area I am looking at is how many roll up doors are really necessary for access?





Thanks and Happy Holidays

Rod

 

[Hutchew]

70x80!!!!!!!!!

Dang, that's bigger than my house. That'll be way cool.

I will probably get mine built this spring, but probably not quite so big, and I plan on putting in an overhead hoist type thing, or at least the rails for it. SO much better than a cherry-picker, IMHO.

AS far as doors go, I would say at least two, cuz you'll always have at least one blocked by a bunch of junk or a broke down truck. A buddy of mine has a pretty large garage with only one door. He got these things that have rollers on them to put under the wheels of his cars (like a small creeper), and he can spin 'em end-for-end, shove em sideways, stack em in like sardines. They work really well.

Congratulations on your new shop.

 

[RThompson]

First thing on my list would be welding area ventilation hood.

Second thing on list would be 1/8" steel work bench counter tops (broke for 4" backsplash and rolled front edge). Fairly cheap to do and real nice to work off of. Finally, floor drains with screw in caps to keep from loosing parts.

I had a small part of designing a commercial truck shop a long time ago and I was shocked at how the architect butchered all the ideas that were solicited from the users. It was a pretty building though!

 

[Champane Flight]

Don't

Don't make me start drooling. I have my plans for a 30x50 going. I am going with air and electrical outlets every eight feet and may cut it down to four, keep the 220 to every eight. Two large I-beams on each side, with one running across, all on rollers. This gives you acess to a hoist anywhere in the shop. A lift of course, I like the look of the ones that you can roll to anywhere in the shop. A double sink type parts washer with heat.

And lights, lots of lights, halogen, better than floresent. The floor has to be that new hercules floor treatment, saw a shop done with it, cool stuff. I can go on and on, better stop now. I am planning on next summer for mine.

 

[Lsfarm]

Hey Rod, I don't know if heating your shop will be needed, but if so, I have a heated floor in my shop, and it is by far the best way for comfort in a work area. Hot water heated, cheap to install and maintain.



Next is to plumb the shop for air. Just use 3/4" or 1" pvc water pipe like in your house. It is rated for more pressure than most people run in their air compressors and at much higher temps. Just roughen up each glue joint with sandpaper before gluing. Many shops around here have had this system in use for ten plus years. Much easier than threaded pipe to install. Build a soundproofed box for your air compressor. Put an air outlet at each outside door, you won't have to pull a vehicle inside to air up a tire.



Make sure you install LOTS of electric outlets, including a 220V one at each outside door. You won't believe how often you need to weld something outside the shop.



A good alarm system is nice or a pair of rotwielers or dobermans will also do. Or hire a guard. Or lease your land to Sherif Deputies for hunting in exchange for guard duties.



I used an above-ground hoist, they are very nice, but make sure you get one that is pretty wide between the posts, mine is a bit tight with my truck.



I put a loft in two corners, each with storage above, one as the roof over the machine shop, the other as the roof over the paint room, just drop tarps from the loft to make the paint booth walls, install a fan in the window. I have 16' ceilings



If you don't put piping in the floor for heat, then use a concrete saw for the expansion joint lines, jacks and rollers go over these saw cuts much easier than the troweled in joints. Easier to keep the floor clean too.



Bury 3. 5" ID steel tubes in the floor and make stands for your grinder, anvil and monster vice from 3" [about 3. 4" OD] heavy wall tubing. Just drop the stand into the socket in the floor when you need the anvil, vice or whatever. Then pull up and store them out of the way when not in use. Keeps the workbench tops clear.



I also burried steel 3" pipes in the floor with a 3/8" thick plate welded over the top, flush with the floor surface. I cut an 'X' in the top plate with a torch, with the cuts about 3/8" wide, this is to drop a chain into, and hook a winch to the chain to drag around heavy stuff when you are alone. Also can be used to do minor frame straightening.



Email me for photos if you want, at: -- email address removed --



PS: even 70'x80' will be too small sooner than you think!! I wish mine was double that size.



Floor drains with screens or grills are a must if you want to wash your truck inside.



Greg L. The Noise Nazi

 

[nickleinonen]

oh i wish i had a garage/shop that big

 

[Larry Willard]

Do Not use PVC pipe for the air lines! I know it is much easier and faster to work with, but if it breaks or is hit it may shatter and you have lots of little pieces of shrapnel, very dangerous. My brother in law found out the hard way, although he didn't get hurt he had to do the job over in steel.

The heated floor is a great idea, but you have to figure out all the things that need to be bolted to the floor such as the lift so you keep the piping out of that area.

Best of luck, it sounds like a great shop.

Larry

 

[Lsfarm]

Broken Pvc??

Larry, how did your brother in law break the pvc?? I pressurized a piece to 120psi and wacked it with a 32 oz mini-sledge, and it bounced off the pvc!!



I ran my air lines up in the rafters to cross the shop, and ran drops down beside each door and into each shop area. There is very little exposed to any potential damage. This meets code around here, and is used in many shops.

I used schedule 40 pvc. The only failure I've heard of was a fitting near a furnace exhaust flue got hot and slid apart. The fitting and pipe were sanded rough prior to the second glue application and survived for seven years now. This was in a full time repair shop.



I guess it depends on the instalation and application, I'm very happy with mine after five years and no failures or issues.



I would recommend good ventilation for the shop as well, I have four 14x14 rollup doors in my shop, and wish I had more ventilation on some hot windless days, I will probably add window fans next year for the summer.



I want a fire suppression/sprinkler system in my shop, but haven't figured out a freeze proof system yet. I don't leave the water system pressurized when I'm not in the shop, so I would have to have a resevoir or something similar for a sprinkler system. I've been told that water damage is worse than and more common than fire damage. [I'm not sure I believe this] The sprinkler system would have to run above the ceiling and insulation, so it could freeze.



Right now I'm just over insured, and take photos of the contents and layout every month or two for the insurance company.



I planned the hoist instalation prior to the heated concrete floor, and took photos with measurements prior to pouring the slabs. I haven't drilled through any floor pipes yet.



Rod, you have a great opportunity to make the truely 'Ultimate Shop' have fun at it, spare nothing it will be worth it.



Greg L. The Noise Nazi

 

[KatDiesel]

Heated floor, lift, dyno. can't wait till the person I know finishes his off.

 

[illflem]

At least 300 ft Sch 40 pvc, 120 psi, not one problem in 20 years this includes sections that are live all the time down to minus 30. I even used an abandoned pvc irrigation line to run compressed air to my house 1200 feet from the shop.



In a shop the size you're building plan for overhead air and power drops to keep hoses and cords off the floor. Self retracing are great.



Spend the extra money and treat the slab with a sealer. The best ones are applied within a few days of pouring, the sooner the better.



Ditto on floor heat and sawed in expansion joints. You can easily find the locations of the slab heating pipes with an infrared temp gun before drilling in the slab.



In the floor lifts can be picked up cheap from companies that demolish service stations but you need to plan for them before pouring the slab.

 

[Lsfarm]

Floor Sealer

I have been disappointed in my choice of floor sealer, I applied it with a pump sprayer, as per instructions. The results have been less than stellar. The floor can still take on stains from oil spills.



I don't remember the brand name, or else I'd post it here. So I'm agreeing with Bill, go with the best floor sealer you can find, and apply it liberally. This will payoff for years to come.



I'd like to epoxy paint my floor, but I doubt if I'll ever get to it. I shudder at the thought of moving everything to expose the floor for painting.



Greg L

 

[Paychk]

The subject of PVC piping for compressed air stirred some memories of discussions on another forum, I think it was one of the wood or metal working forums and I would hate to see a fellow TDR member or any one hurt by shrapnel. Please do some research on this matter and be very careful !!





http://www.google.com/search?q=compressed+air+piping+pvc&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=compressed+air+piping+abs&btnG=Google+Search

 

[Demon Dodge]

As usual you guys come through with some good thoughts and ideas. The heated floors sound like a good idea does anyone have a company name that sells componets or systems? The shop will have solar panels for generating electricty in Ca we can sell it back to the utility. How well does the floor sealer stand up to welding splatter?

Thanks Guys,

Rod



PS. I will be in Ft Worth picking up my 97 D3500 01-03-03

 

[illflem]

Good concrete sealer is resistant to weld splatter. It wicks in and becomes part of the top inches of the floor as long as you do as soon as you can walk on the slab. Apply with a garden sprayer. It's not cheap, I spent over $400 on a 60'x80' slab 20 years ago. It also helps the slab to cure better. I don't remember the brand I used, but there are lots to chose from.



In slab hydronic heating is an easy do it yourself installation. There are probably 1000s of places that can help you out with design and components, just find a nearby one with a internet search for hydronic heat. I used components from these guys http://www.wattsradiant.com/radiantfloor.html

You won't regret in-floor heat, it makes it a pleasure to lay under a rig on cold day.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Take a look at www.ultimategarage.com - the guy does this stuff for a living. There seems to be some pretty good advice there.



Brian



PS - I'm green with envy like everybody else.....

 

[Todd T]

dont forget a downdraft or crossdraft paint booth!! every shop needs a paint booth. how about a trolley crane? floor pots are a must, lights on the walls too. put you lights on sets. so you dont have to burn all of them but can brighten things up when and where needed.



dont forget about ventalation air in low on the walls or at floor level and air out, up high. and lots of it.

 

[Andy Perreault]

I'd like to suggest putting in skylights or "solartubes" to bring in sunlight. That'll cut down on the electric bill for lighting. A friend of mine has a new house with solartubes in strategic places like hallways and bathrooms. Even on a cloudy day, you don't need to turn on the bathroom light.

They don't seem to work very well at night, though.

Andy

 

[esommer2500]

Concrete is a unique animal. I have worked with is (or against it) for over five years. The really good sealer is no longer available, the EPA had some problems with it. There are two different 'kinds', a 15% and a 30%. 15% you can spray through a sprayer, but 30% you have to roll on with a very heavy nap roller. Both should work well for almost all kinds of shop applications, but if you want to get crazy with it, or don't like the look of your finished floor, go for an epoxy coating or paint of some kind. Do your homework, and get out your wallet. Some kinds of epoxy coatings requirt that the surface by shotblasted or roughed up in some other way before application. I wouldn't recommend doing this yourself.



Hydronic heating is definetely the way to go, if you can afford it, and afford to run the hot water throught it. I am looking at a tankless water heating system, that will feed indefinite amounts of hot water at any temperature up to about 105*. In addition to the floor, I plan on using it to run a hot water pressurure washer.

Good luck.



eric

 

[CWebster]

Auctions

You can find some very valuable stuff at business auctions. Pretty much anything that you could think of, or want, is being sold by somebody. For my business (Fabrication, manufacturing), I have purchased many pieces of equipment for about a third of new purchase price. Also, by going to some of the auctions, you get to see how people set up their shops. I usually come away with a few "I'm doin' that" or "Why didn't I think of that?" along with some very nice equipment.







http://exchange.e-steel.com/CommunityBase?reqProcessorName=equipment







Chris

 

[CWebster]

p.s.

Also, a lot of what is not listed is the support equipment for the facility. Air compressors, high bay lights, hoists, bridge cranes, small lifts, small presses, air make up units, ventilation units, wort tables, modular platens, c-clamps, every hand tool and then some... Stuff that could really trick out a shop.





Chris