Unusual “squealing” noise on deceleration

[gsbrockman]

Yepppppp.....although the turbos are different, my previous 2014 3500 w/385*850 had no issues through 362k miles at trade in time.

 

[AH64ID]

Yepppppp.....although the turbos are different, my previous 2014 3500 w/385*850 had no issues through 362k miles at trade in time.

I didn't realize they had different turbos. I had thought all 13+ motors used the same turbo.

 

[gsbrockman]

To my knowledge....turbos, emissions, tuning (obviously), and camshafts are different on the Cab & Chassis engines.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Curious do you run EB all the time?

 

[AH64ID]

To my knowledge....turbos, emissions, tuning (obviously), and camshafts are different on the Cab & Chassis engines.

If you want to PM or post your ESN I can look.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I was told by the "LADY" at the Cummins plant that at that time ALL 6.7's were the same except for paint color and programming. No idea if that was true at the time!

 

[gsbrockman]

Curious do you run EB all the time?

Full exhaust brake when towing and either full or auto whilst bobtailing.

@AH64ID

 

[gsbrockman]

If you want to PM or post your ESN I can look.

Any luck yet?

 

[AH64ID]

Any luck yet?

No, quickserve appears to be down right now.

I'm headed out for a run and to check out a new brewery. I'll try again when I get back.

 

[Wiredawg]

We've been on the merry go round before... the 2013 through 2018 C&Cs have smaller turbos, different cams, and different fueling program. They achieve max tq 750lb ft at 1600RPM and achieve max HP 328 at 2500 RPM.

Cheers, Ron

 

[gsbrockman]

Thanks @Wiredawg

I didn’t think I was losing it!

Since my 4500 is an ‘18 and John’s truck is an ‘18.....maybe he can chime in with exact part number differences in some of the hard parts.

 

[Wiredawg]

Thanks @Wiredawg

I didn’t think I was losing it!

Since my 4500 is an ‘18 and John’s truck is an ‘18.....maybe he can chime in with exact part number differences in some of the hard parts.

Greg,

We did this in another thread here in the TDR. A friend had told me he put the larger turbo on his 4500 and got better performance. I'm fine with mine. This is why many aftermarket programmers and modules don't work on C&Cs.

On a side note, Cummins dropped a lot of engine info on their website.

I'll see if I can find that old thread.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Nice little search engine on the TDR...
here's the post

The camshafts are different: yours is 4930770 and mine is 4983627.
View attachment 110899


This proves Robert's article is correct. I knew he was too meticulous to be in error.

BTW, anyone can check their info at Cummins QuickServe Mobile app. pretty cool.

Thanks, Ron

 

[AH64ID]

I recall the thread on the cams, but don't recall anything in there about different turbo's.

According to quickserve the part numbers are different, but the nomenclature on both turbos is HE351VE... same as it has been since 2007.5. They both list the same applications thou. Makes me wonder if it wasn't a mid MY change vs PU/CC change, but likely there are minor physical differences for mounting on a CC. There have been minor changes thru-out the years but the compressor and turbine size haven't changed, AFIK. So they are different versions of the same turbo, no bigger no smaller. The same basic turbo has carried the 6.7 from 350/650 thru 385/930 and maybe even the 400/1000 motors.

The compressor wheel on the HE351VE is the same as it was on the 04.5-07 5.9 turbo, just the turbine wheel is larger. A smaller turbo would be a cork for a 6.7.

Additionally the actuators are the same PN for the PU and CC.

CC and PU do appear to use different injectors and pistons as well.

I'd kinda like to get an ESN off a marine motor now and see what parts are shared there.

Anyone with a 2019 want to post their ESN?

 

[Wiredawg]

I recall the thread on the cams, but don't recall anything in there about different turbo's.

According to quickserve the part numbers are different, but the nomenclature on both turbos is HE351VE... same as it has been since 2007.5. They both list the same applications thou. Makes me wonder if it wasn't a mid MY change vs PU/CC change, but likely there are minor physical differences for mounting on a CC. There have been minor changes thru-out the years but the compressor and turbine size haven't changed, AFIK. So they are different versions of the same turbo, no bigger no smaller. The same basic turbo has carried the 6.7 from 350/650 thru 385/930 and maybe even the 400/1000 motors.

The compressor wheel on the HE351VE is the same as it was on the 04.5-07 5.9 turbo, just the turbine wheel is larger. A smaller turbo would be a cork for a 6.7.

Additionally the actuators are the same PN for the PU and CC.

CC and PU do appear to use different injectors and pistons as well.

I'd kinda like to get an ESN off a marine motor now and see what parts are shared there.

Anyone with a 2019 want to post their ESN?

Thanks for the clarification... can't remember where I got the turbo info, there is a difference between the C&C and P/U to prevent cross use. I made another mistake... C&C motor max HP 2400RPM, not 2500. And I think I'm right fueling calibration is different too.

Cheers, Ron

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks for the clarification... can't remember where I got the turbo info, there is a difference between the C&C and P/U to prevent cross use. I made another mistake... C&C motor max HP 2400RPM, not 2500. And I think I'm right fueling calibration is different too.

Cheers, Ron

Yes the fueling is different, but I don't see anything special about it in terms of PU vs CC... just like there were 3 different PU calibrations for MY18. ECM's are the same part number from PU to CC.

 

[Wiredawg]

Yes the fueling is different, but I don't see anything special about it in terms of PU vs CC... just like there were 3 different PU calibrations for MY18. ECM's are the same part number from PU to CC.

I guess calibration is better term than programming. I could be confused, the fueling calibration I referred to is associated with the fuel pump, according to my info posted above.

- Do you know if calibration can be changed via programming or is it "burned in" to the ECM? I'm thinking it's programming.
- Are the fuel pump part numbers the same also, or is it "calibration" the difference?
- Also, I'm still a little curious about the differences in the turbos. All I've found is P/Us and C&Cs not compatible with each other.

And, I now recall had someone telling me the stock turbo crapped out on their 4500 and replaced it with a larger one. Not sure if there is an aftermarket larger variable VGT one that retains exhaust brake or what.

Anyhow, no matter what, I DO seem to learn a little more about the differences and commonalities between C&C and P/U engines.

Thanks for the patience and the education.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Not 100% sure about any differences in hard parts, but part #'s certainly do change over the years. A few minor changes to the turbos like the cleaning port and a wiring plug for the actuator are ones that come to mind. Many sensors and small parts are the same, but have different part #'s and different prices according to application and model year. Turbo actuators and gaskets are most likely the same physical part for all of the 6.7's... Most likely, ALL of the sensors, and actuators are the same from the small 6.7 all the way to the ISX!

 

[AH64ID]

I guess calibration is better term than programming. I could be confused, the fueling calibration I referred to is associated with the fuel pump, according to my info posted above.

I don't think it's associated with the fuel pump, but rather the programming of the motor.

Comparing your ESN, my ESN, and GS's ESN all 3 have different CPL's, Fuel Calibrations, and configurations...but all have the same fuel pump. Cummins specs show that the fuel pump was unchanged from 07.5-18... that's a good thing and yet another bonus for the CP3.

- Do you know if calibration can be changed via programming or is it "burned in" to the ECM? I'm thinking it's programming.

It is all done thru programming. Same ECM in a PU and CC.

I was just comparing a '18 PU to '18 CC tune. LOTS different, probably more different than the same. Duration tables are different, which is not surprising with different injectors. I also noticed the CC runs a lot more rail pressure than a pickup under normal driving. Peak is the same.

Interestingly enough the EB looks to be less aggressive on the CC models.

CC run more EGR at higher rpms/loads and PU's run more EGR at lower rpms/loads.

- Are the fuel pump part numbers the same also, or is it "calibration" the difference?

Yep, same for the entire life of the CP3 in the 6.7 from what I can tell.

- Also, I'm still a little curious about the differences in the turbos. All I've found is P/Us and C&Cs not compatible with each other.

Me too.

Same actuator.

Same turbine housing.

Different compressor housing. Different compressors, but appear to be same size.

4035879 for the PU
3599017 for the CC

Maybe someone can find out more data on them.

And, I now recall had someone telling me the stock turbo crapped out on their 4500 and replaced it with a larger one. Not sure if there is an aftermarket larger variable VGT one that retains exhaust brake or what.

The HE451 is supposed to be plug and play with the electronics. I know a guy who ran one for a while. He said it was better in every aspect, to include the EB being stronger. I recall it being a bit larger and taking some work to fit. I also imagine it would have an effect on emissions.

Anyhow, no matter what, I DO seem to learn a little more about the differences and commonalities between C&C and P/U engines.

I'm really curious about the piston and injector differences. I don't see enough timing differences to think the pistons are drastically different (like 03 vs 05 5.9 pistons).

5336101 for the PU
5336103 for the CC

Rods are the same, but piston cooling nozzles are different.

Blocks are also different.

 

[gsbrockman]

Looking forward to seeing additional differences if you have the urge to dig a little deeper, John.

I didn’t know there was injector differences.

Based on what you see being different with the duration tables and rail pressures......do you think the Cab & Chassis trucks may not be as “de-tuned” as one would think?