VE top seals- No start.?

[R C Cola]

Injection Pump Top ?

Now I am wondering if it is possible to get the shutoff lever installed wrong so that it won't pump at all. May not have the lever in the correct position on the inside to allow fuel to flow. Certain the outside is right from pics and spring but not sure of index position ? Seems to have almost no pressure from the side going to the cylinders. ?

 

[PToombs]

RC, I'm not sure about that. I only had my top off once, and had no problem on the restart. I did have to reindex my throttle shaft lever though.

On the solenoid, if it's not done, cut/break off the top of the bracket on the end of the pump. I cut mine 1/2 way, then used a crescent wrench to break it the rest of the way off. Some guys just use the wrench method. This gives you good access to the solenoid. No need to touch the screw.

 

[JLEONARD]

click is very, very quiet ? Normal

That sounds normal to me... mine is very quiet

 

[PToombs]

Well, little Billy Gilbert, who is too cheap to renew his membership to to the ultimate diesel club, wanted me to pass on some wisdom for RC :-laf;



Tell RC Cola it's either two things, simple, why people have issues after a gov spring job/pump top R*R. ... . ok, it's either he's got the throttle index wrong or the shutoff lever indexed wrong.



1st step, remove throttle lever/plates, noting which index marks he has them on. With the levers gone, rotate the throttle shaft by hand counterclockwise a hair or more. Next depress the manual shutdown lever as if to kill the engine. If the throttle shafts moves back to where it was (clockwise), the shutdown lever is indexed correctly and working properly. If not, time to pull the top cover again and fix it.



If shutdown lever is working correctly, move back to the throttle levers and shaft indexing. Not all pumps have the same notches on their throttle levers. If I remember right you want to be at the 2nd notch down on the left, second one up on the right. If that doesn't work, try another combination. As always, Den's site is helpful: Den - Dodge CTD 1st Gen - VE Governor Spring Install



Also, if not asked this already, did he get his fuel screw back in where it was previously? If not in enough you could get the same thing. Feel free to copy/paste this or use it to sound like you know something LOL. Bill Gilbert.

 

[R C Cola]

Progress Yeah !

""1st step, remove throttle lever/plates, noting which index marks he has them on. With the levers gone, rotate the throttle shaft by hand counterclockwise a hair or more. Next depress the manual shutdown lever as if to kill the engine. If the throttle shafts moves back to where it was (clockwise), the shutdown lever is indexed correctly and working properly. If not, time to pull the top cover again and fix it.



""If shutdown lever is working correctly, move back to the throttle levers and shaft indexing. Not all pumps have the same notches on their throttle levers. If I remember right you want to be at the 2nd notch down on the left, second one up on the right. Also, if not asked this already, did he get his fuel screw back in where it was previously? ""

Answer ! Fuel screw is in as far as it will go without removing collar. Some questions. When moving the shutdown lever to rear (to kill) no resistance is encountered and the throttle shaft does not move or try to. Should be able to feel something. Sooo, what do I change inside to get it right ? Throttle lever is to the front and shutdown lever is more to the rear and they don't seem to touch ? ?

 

[PToombs]

RC, was the arm the spring hooks to on the throttle shaft pointing towards the engine? It's supposed to.



New message from Bill,



Ok tell RC to download the VE manual, read and understand .



It might have to be a trial and error, but if you sat down and thought about it, you might be able to figure it out. I'm surprised Scott hasn't jumped in and help him, he's the one that told me about the tip I gave RC. Then after reading the VE manual, I see what he was talking about.



The inner stop lever doesn't contact the throttle shaft directly. It pushes against the start lever, to shut off fuel. The start lever is apart of the governor lever mechanism, some call the control lever. This is what the gov spring, top hat and washer assembly attaches to, the tensioning lever, not the start lever. They share the same pivot point though.



When the outer shutdown lever is pushed back, the inner lever pushes against the start lever/gov lever mechanism. These two levers swivel around their pivot point and shift the control collar to the shutoff position. The distributor plunger's cutoff port remains open and the plunger delivers no fuel. I think I described that right.



That said, remove the top cover, try leaving the gov spring attached to the tensioning lever, hold the cover in place while eyeballing the inner shutoff lever. Work it back and see how far it's missing to reach the tensioning lever. I would think, with the outer lever removed, you would rotate the shaft of the shutdown counterclockwise a tooth, then stick the outer lever back on. Heck you probly can try this without removing the pump top.

Bill Gilbert 1stgen.org.

 

[R C Cola]

VE Manual

Download, great idea. Where do I go to do that ?

 

[JLEONARD]

I gots the manual... e mail me at -- email address removed -- and I can reply with the manual... ...



But you don't know where you got it. . get it? Don't want the copyright police on my arsh... ... ... ...

Jay



and a moon pie

 

[Jgolden]

Makes me wish I had a shut off lever.

 

[R C Cola]

Shut-Off Lever

In a 1990 not-intercooled, you probably do, have you looked. Is it a VE pump ? If so it should have one and/or you could put one on it easy. Look on the side, spring loaded to stay forward, when you push with your finger toward the rear it will shut the engine down manually.

 

[R C Cola]

e-mail

Jay, sent it today, thanks,. R C

 

[PToombs]

RC, Joe doesn't have one, I personally looked, and my eyes are younger than his. Oh, wait, Joe doesn't wear glasses!

 

[R C Cola]

Top Off again !

Now apart and looks just like the pics in the pump thread. Left the shut down lever on so I could see and compare to pics, shut off spring in place lever all way to left outside and inside also to left right behind the outside lever just like the pics show. Everything else looks to be in place and just like the pics. Hair pulling time. If I don't get this right the pump shop will charge me for a rebuild, I can smell that coming. #@$%!

 

[Jgolden]

In a 1990 not-intercooled, you probably do, have you looked. Is it a VE pump ? If so it should have one and/or you could put one on it easy. Look on the side, spring loaded to stay forward, when you push with your finger toward the rear it will shut the engine down manually.

RC, thanks for the reply, I should have given the backround fact and posted the picture showing the lack of a lever. Putting one on is an interesting idea, but right now I am suffering from "Diesel Fuel Cost Depression", DFCD#@$%!, and have sidelined improvements, but then again... .

Thanks

 

[R C Cola]

VE Pump woes !

Here it is. Looking carefully inside pump with top off, there is a lever on the engine side that the full fuel screw pushs against when the top is in place. When manuvering the top back on that lever was bent out of position (too much pressure perhaps) (who can I blame that on ? )so the full fuel screw did not contact. So bend that lever back into proper position ! Oooops ! Lever now broke. Big soft cowpies etc. #@$%! ( next time "back out the full fuel screw and carefully place top in position) Pump shop now in charge. With time off work the price they charge would have been a bargain in the beginning. R C

 

[Jgolden]

RC, From geezer world: don't underestimate the knowledge/learning side of your efforts, and the value of experience.

 

[PToombs]

RC, sorry to hear that you found the problem! :{

I learned the 1st time I had a top off, back the fuel screw out before assembly. Some guys use a piece of wire and pull it out of the way, but that sucks! I hope the pump shop doesn't stick it to ya for that.

Good Luck!

pete

 

[R C Cola]

Broken lever

Thanks guys. Obviously some levers do not like to be bent and then straightened. Next time I plan to have a used/rebuilt one on the shelf for a quick R & R . Will let you know what the shop says about the pump when they see the inside, since it has not been open for 590k . Finally found on search a full set of pics showing how to rebuild. Also plan to get the rebuild manual. . . R C

 

[Greenleaf]

Yeah, the two wires.....



Well, I pulled almost everything not needed to make HP *OFF* my trucks and I simply cannot recall what the other wire is for. KSB power I think. It went to the resistor block and then to a sensor on the cylinder head/ intake. Yadda yadda.



I hear a clear and consistant audible click when I turn the key to "on" , under the hood of both my trucks. There is nothing else left that powers up. I have been able to get by with the OEM solenoid thus far.



For future reference , you CAN remove the plunger/spring alone and thread/screw the body back in... ... ..... to test a solenoid.



I read here, some time ago, that the full fuel screw does not require removal to R&R the top... ... ..... I don't know what he was thinking.

 

[R C Cola]

Click ?

The loud click on mine is the large solenoids on the drivers fender fairly close to the firewall. One is grid heaters not sure what the second one is. You are right the full fuel screw does not have to come out to R & R the top, I am living proof of that. But if you don't get it just right going back on you might have a problem with that lever. R C . .