Vibration at highway speeds

[TCDiesel]

Did you successfully complete elementary school? You appear unable to read and comprehend what I wrote and I have no clue what the gibberish above means.

HB. . Comprehend this... Answer the Question ... Does the Dealer Have the RIGHT to charge for repairs that are be-on their Comprehension? Or are they entitled to Payment BC HB said So... You have this thought in your HEAD that Dealers and Cummins cannot make Mistakes... This attitude is why they continue to over charge and will NOT make repairs on their own short comings. they think they are entitle to payment regardless of the out come?



HB. . you seem not to be able to comprehend the most simple understandings. You always Attack form the rear. . Does anyone care if I did not complete elementary School? What is right and Just and truthful is what counts regardless of their secondary education.

You would insult and rob and slander with malicious dis-regard someone BC their did NOT complete elementary School...



All the worldly Education a man could have could not equal the Education I have. Have more Money then I can spend. loved two Women In My life. Have more friends that would lay down their Life in My behalf then I can count. All of this By your scale of NOT completing elementary School.

 

[HPetrat]

Has anyone made a careful inspection of the rear brakes?



If you have a slight caliper weep that is leaving no marking on the ground, but is fouling the rotor and pads, it can give similar symptoms as you are describing (including the clutching in&out changes).



Very often on drum brake vehicles (I realize yours is not), a rusty E-brake cable (or iced) can also be a real pain at highway speeds but nowhere else (don't ask how I know this).



Just something to check that shouldn't involve removing anything and even having someone pump the brakes while your looking may shed some light.



Either way, best wishes for a speedy and inexpensive solution. Oo.



HP

 

[mrw1108]

In response to "HBarlow" My comment was partially addressed to the poster who immediately advised him to demand the dealer troubleshoot and repair the truck under an expired warranty and initiate buy back procedures under lemon laws. That is ridiculous advice.



Sir your comments and opinions are very obscured. I never "demanded" that the dealer work under an expired warranty. The dealer know's the truck is out of warranty. I had no intensions of using the lemon law. Did you bother to read my original thread? I'm not looking for free dianostics or repairs. I have no issue paying for the work. I simly can't see paying for 40 hours or more of dianostic work. The dealer is asking me to provide them with an unlimited amount of time to diagnose this problem, simply put I can not afford that. If they took two weeks to diagnose this problem would cost me 8,000. 00 dollars. I am sure most would agree that would be considered unreasonable.

 

[mrw1108]

In response to "MWilson";



Have you had the truck since new?? Yes



If so, at what mileage did you notice this pesky vibration?? Prabably 59-60k



When the vibration started had you changed anything parts on the truck, got a brake job done, anything that involved someone putting a wrench to it?? No



Do you carry a load, tow, etc. or is it a pavement princess like my '06. Thats funny, No towing now just Highway. Was purchased with the intent to tow a 28' boat

If you do tow or load it does the vibration change?? No towing



Give us a chance to help, some of these dealers are not as good as they should be.

I am lucky that I have the skills, tools and if needed a place to dismantle my vehicles. I hate to see people spend thousands of dollars for something that could have been fixed for less than half that amount.



Let me add this,

I have long felt that anyone that presents themselves as being capable to lay a wrench on my vehicles better own one and maintain it properly themselves.

If not, how can they possibly be qualified to repair or understand my concerns??

These trucks are not Honda Civics with a fart can exhaust and we don't drown out the sound of our own vehicles with a 500 watt stereo thumping out Eminem.

How could the Civic driving tech possibly understand our concerns??? He is paid flat rate to throw ball joints or whatever in quick enough to beat flat rate,

touching or test driving your truck in an attempt to repair or even understand what he is dealing with is going to be waaaay over his head.

Agreed, I grew up working on hot rods. I have built many race cars through out the years. I prefer to do as much mechanical work as I can, however I know my limitations. Your advice is well taken and look forward to future post

 

[mrw1108]

In response to HPetrat: The brakes and rotors checked out fine at the dealer, thanks

 

[mrw1108]

In response to wcjp: both ujoints on rear drive shaft have been replaced, thanks

 

[TCDiesel]

These Drive line Vibration are hard to find at times. . This member May chime In. . He Purchase New 1 piece form Dog House. . install the piece and Immediately had terrible vibration. . Dog paid to have it re-balanced. Did not fix. So He installed the 2 Piece. Vib gone, put 1 piece Back in vib re-develop... . Finally he took the 1 piece to a shop that had a Very (And what I understand very fast drive balance machine)... Yep they re-balanced the the 1 piece at high speed... Guess What that was the fix... .

 

[mrw1108]

TCDiesel, my brother is going stop by tomorrow. We will swap drive shafts. He owns a 03 Dodge. Hopefully DS is the same length, Thanks

 

[mwilson]

Also if you have time tomorrow throw some weight in the back, some bags of mulch, cement blocks, etc. 500 lbs or so.



See if the vibration is worse, better or no different.



Fool with the clutch, change engine rpm with clutch disengaged while coasting, clutch engaged coasting and under power.

Also any suggestions that T&C and/or GCroyle have mentioned as well.



The added weight will temporarily change the angle of the pinion and driveline, take some weight off of the front axle, etc. so if the problem is back there that might help you pin down the area you need to focus on.



Also try the brakes and anything else you can think of with the added weight, again to see if any component with the added weight amplifies or diminishes the issue.



I think I would do that even before I switched out the driveline.



This will be a test of your patience and fortitude, but it still beats everyone throwing parts at it that the poor truck does not need.



Mike.

 

[Prairie Dog]

His drive shaft will be shorter than yours by about 1. 5" because you have the G56 trans and he has the NV5600. I don't know for sure but that may be ok for a gentle test drive.

 

[mrw1108]

Mike, thanks for the advise. I actually have a single axel trailer, so I'll load her down and go for a drive.



Prairie Dog, your right, I just measured my DS and its almost inch plus longer than my brothers, Thanks

 

[SWithrow]

Prairie Dog, your right, I just measured my DS and its almost inch plus longer than my brothers, Thanks

Size isn't everything!:-laf

 

[HBarlow]

This is the post I was referring to:

"Well you shouldn't have to pay for diagnostics when your truck is under warranty (I assume). Although I know Dodge doesn't pay them either. I would tell them thats not acceptable and would they like to buy it back ~ does your state have a Lemon law? You could also try another dealer. Maybe get a district rep or have them call Star but your shouldn't have to pay. "

<!-- google_ad_section_end -->not the original poster's . . . when I wrote this:

"None of this is a warranty or lemon law issue. Except for the engine. which has a warranty, it is his truck and he is responsible for it. Some folks need to learn about accepting personal responsibility instead of always looking for someone else to blame or to pay for his own mistakes and misfortunes. "

Note that I used the words "his truck" and "he is responsible. "

If my comment had been addressed to the original poster, which it was not, I would have written "your truck" and "you are responsible. "

I am unable to understand the meaning of this:

"He already spent $1000 on repairs... You did NOT ask what the cost form the *******'s were.
HB... Why is it when the Dealers cannot Diagnose correctly they Still think they are ENTITLE TO BE PAID. You only see the small HB view. . I had 1 customer get RIP off by one of the local Dealers here for $2k on bad ground and poor batteries. . that ruined the ALT... they replaced the ECM and 1 cable.
After T&C corrected the Problem re-installed the factory ECM, New cable,ATL,Batteries correct fix,He returned to the Dealer for refund they said SOL... and BC he had added the plow (Plow was installed before the 1 st repair) No refund allowed BS, this happens MONTHLY. "<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

or this:

"He already spent $1000 on repairs... You did NOT ask what the cost form the *******'s were.
HB... Why is it when the Dealers cannot Diagnose correctly they Still think they are ENTITLE TO BE PAID. You only see the small HB view. . I had 1 customer get RIP off by one of the local Dealers here for $2k on bad ground and poor batteries. . that ruined the ALT... they replaced the ECM and 1 cable.
After T&C corrected the Problem re-installed the factory ECM, New cable,ATL,Batteries correct fix,He returned to the Dealer for refund they said SOL... and BC he had added the plow (Plow was installed before the 1 st repair) No refund allowed BS, this happens MONTHLY. "<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

but you will not find one word I wrote defending incompetent dealer service departments.

Some of you need to work on your reading and writing skills.

 

[TCDiesel]

Hmmm Quote: None of this is a warranty or lemon law issue. Except for the engine. which has a warranty, it is his truck and he is responsible for it. Some folks need to learn about accepting personal responsibility instead of always looking for someone else to blame or to pay for his own mistakes and misfortunes



HB you need to contact the Mods... Someone use your ID to post this... OK, I Prairie Dog, GCroyle posted to help and Aid. . YOU attacked the OP. . Me and You will attack and insult others when it fit you.

SWithrow call me on the phone and Ask if I would post to help and encourage others to Do so. I will work on My reading and writing skills... Good advice I always need to work on those. HB Please post something of benefit to Trail Member vibration problem. Some mechanical advice or some direction to benefit. offer to help, Share with us some type of driveline problem you have had and the fix,Etc. Do you have any New views to share,We all Know you put 200k plus on X trucks without 1 problem. . They all been Factory, Cummins and Dodge NEVER have build any thing that would fail. Why are you even Here? You don't need any help or advice. You are the poster member for perfection. Heck According to You leave your truck factory and the tires will make 200K.

 

[HBarlow]

None of this is a warranty or lemon law issue. Except for the engine. which has a warranty, it is his truck and he is responsible for it. Some folks need to learn about accepting personal responsibility instead of always looking for someone else to blame or to pay for his own mistakes and misfortunes.

Vibration at speed is caused by rotating parts. The fact that disengaging the clutch reduces it makes me suspect the lousy dual mass flywheel/clutch assembly. The truck's odometer reading coincides with the DMF failure mileage range reported here by others. I agree with Gary Croyles above. I would focus on the flywheel clutch assembly.

Can you read that?

 

[mrw1108]

Ok that makes since, yesterday I started the truck in the driveway, after a few minutes of idling I increased the RPM's from 800 to 2300 with no notice of vibration. Is that a valid test to run if my flywheel was out of balance or problems with the Clutch assembly.



This problem just started about a month ago as a mild vibration. I had originally thought one of my tires was out of balance. However the more I drove it the worse it became, so of course I parked the truck until I could get it serviced. Rear ds both ujoints had to be replaced. That fixed the loud knocking sound and vibration at lower speeds, now the vibration is more noticeable at the highway speeds between 50-70 mph. Is it possible the defective ujoint may have damaged the rear-end?

 

[HBarlow]

I have not owned a late model truck with G56 and DMF so have no experience with their common failure symptoms. But in my opinion, the test you described above eliminated the flywheel and clutch as the cause and suggests to me that the vibration is related to truck speed not engine speed. You can further prove that by getting on the highway and driving in the speed range where the vibration occurs and press the clutch down to disengage and allow the engine to drop to low idle speed.

Bad wheel balance done by mediocre tire monkeys in retail tire stores or done by good tire installers on bad equipment is most often the cause of highway speed vibration and is one of the cheaper potential problems to eliminate. I know you are fed up with throwing your hard earned money at the problem, I would be also, but if you purchased the tires recently I'd take it back and speak with the store owner or manager about a possible bad balance. If the tires have been on your truck awhile a balance weight or two could have been thrown off and a rebalance could cure it.

If the shop who sold you the tires is is not helpful or you'd like to be more sure before you spend money for a balance you could borrow a buddy's wheels and tires for a comparison drive or decide whether to take the truck to another shop for wheel/tire balance.

If you have eliminated the tire balance look to the driveline.

Driveshafts can get bent and out of balance and can be straightened on a lathe by a good driveline shop.

A failing universal joint in front or rear driveshaft can cause a vibration also. My '08 Ram developed a bad rear u-joint at around 75k miles.

Do the symptoms remain the same whether in two wheel or four wheel drive? I have never owned a four wheel drive truck so am not as familiar with the Dodge front driveline as some other members. I can't advise you where to look if you pinpoint the problem as four wheel drive related.

If you continue posting your testing and elimination reports as you just did someone here in TDR WILL diagnose the problem and advise you correctly.

 

[GCroyle]

Ok that makes since, yesterday I started the truck in the driveway, after a few minutes of idling I increased the RPM's from 800 to 2300 with no notice of vibration. Is that a valid test to run if my flywheel was out of balance or problems with the Clutch assembly.



This problem just started about a month ago as a mild vibration. I had originally thought one of my tires was out of balance. However the more I drove it the worse it became, so of course I parked the truck until I could get it serviced. Rear ds both ujoints had to be replaced. That fixed the loud knocking sound and vibration at lower speeds, now the vibration is more noticeable at the highway speeds between 50-70 mph. Is it possible the defective ujoint may have damaged the rear-end?

Dear mwr1108 Trial Member,



I wish you well in finding your vibration problem. My field is clutches, so I'll limit my comments to that area.



The G56 Dual Mass Flywheel has two rotating masses, while they are connected, the secondary is free to do its own thing based on the lets call them oscillations in the engine output that the DMF by design is trying to minimize or filter to prevent gear noise. As a part of this function there is a rather thin wall bushing that separates the primary F/W from the secondary F/W. This same basic design (and mfgr. ) first appeared in the D-Max, (the Ford 7. 3L DMF used a different mfgr. sorta didn't have the same issue as it used a stout double row ball bearing, but its bearing can still fail at very high mileage) it had the same potential problem and for many (number will never be known) the bushing starts to wear, gets thinner, the secondary looses concencricity with the crankshaft, it can start to vibrate, it just gets worse, can't heal itself. BUT I think it can come and go due to its potential ability to randomly be in balance or out of balance as its position can change slightly, hence the need to play with the clutch, release (down) engage (up) repeat at all commonly used engine RPM ranges. The idea behind the not moving test criteria is that nothing else is rotating, has the potential to start the isolation process.



Good luck isolating the issue, and this community has some very indepth experience, you need to weed out the wheat from the chaff.



OK, I'll throw this out, any inspection of the drive shafts for missing balance weights, should have left a witness mark where it was.



TDR, lets try to help a trial member not send him running.

 

[HBarlow]

Ok that makes since, yesterday I started the truck in the driveway, after a few minutes of idling I increased the RPM's from 800 to 2300 with no notice of vibration. Is that a valid test to run if my flywheel was out of balance or problems with the Clutch assembly.

This problem just started about a month ago as a mild vibration. I had originally thought one of my tires was out of balance. However the more I drove it the worse it became, so of course I parked the truck until I could get it serviced. Rear ds both ujoints had to be replaced. That fixed the loud knocking sound and vibration at lower speeds, now the vibration is more noticeable at the highway speeds between 50-70 mph. Is it possible the defective ujoint may have damaged the rear-end?

Edit: No, a bad u joint wouldn't damage the differential but a driveshaft could be slightly kinked. It only takes very little imbalance of a driveshaft to cause a significant vibration.

 

[mwilson]

The missing weight suggestion is an excellent theory, does seem odd that replacing his u-joints took care of the initial problem and created a new vibration that it never had.

Tech could have beating it apart and never noticed and/or did not care that the little piece of metal fell off.

Also could have been sloppy with his procedure and sprung something.



If GCroyle's stationary clutch tests prove the flywheel is good I would go back to the driveline as it has been recently molested.



As far as testing the tires have your brother come out in his rig as a chase vehicle and have him watch your tires at the vibration speed to see if he can see one bouncing assuming you have an Interstate or divided highway at your disposal.



If nothing appears to be bouncing/pounding I would have that driveshaft checked for straightness and balance next.



Also if you do your tow test today I think that will magnify the issue if it is the driveline.



Chin up, old boy..... :-laf



Mike.