Vibration

[JVolkmann]

I have 03 QC 4x4 SO with 48RE, 36,000 miles. I noticed on my recent trip to Outter Banks I have a vibration around 1900 rpms and 69 mph. This is the first I have noticed this. Any ideas, please let me know. Thanks in advance for your help.



Jeff

 

[BNewman]

You're not alone. Mine just started doing it between 68-71 mph. sounds like the rear to me. I'm not a specialist but it sounds like it comes from the drive shaft back. I'm going to give my dealer a call to get it checked out. I only have 1900 miles on it. I'll post if I have any luck.

 

[JVolkmann]

BNewman, Yes, I am not sure if it is the rear or not. This may not make sense, but it is like a slow vibration. Not like a tire out of balance. I don't know when I can get to a dealer. Let me know if you find out anything. Thanks !



Jeff

 

[BNewman]

Yea like a winding noise. vibration tones arent steady, they wind up and down

 

[BNewman]

I am going to the dealer tomorrow or the next day for the fuel TSB and this vibe. I'll post my results.

 

[JVolkmann]

Exactly. Thanks. Keep me informed.

 

[WStoops]

Good luck getting that fixed. Only a few have been that lucky. DC has had to buy a lot of them back. I complained about mine at 880 miles. I now have 14,500 and no luck yet. I complained directly to DC via email and snail mail 2 1/2 weeks ago. They called the day after the email to say they would be getting right back to me. Now after 2 1/2 weeks I'm glad I've not been holding my breath. There is a guy on this site out west in WA state who just had 2 of them bought back in the same week. An 04 and an 04. 5. I sent an email to a law firm in NY asking them to represent me today as these people just don't seem to care. Maybe they'll care when we get them into court. Real pity too as I'm easy to work with, just don't ignore me. I really love the truck but the vibes are making me nuts and I can't take it on a trip. :-{}

 

[Matt400]

The P/S hose update/TSB fixed my vibration @75 which was also around 2000 rpm,s.

Has yours been updated?

 

[BNewman]

is that power steering hose you say? I really think the noise is in the rear somewhere. are you sure you're talking about the same viberation?

 

[TTubb]

I have 03 QC 4x4 SO with 48RE, 36,000 miles. I noticed on my recent trip to Outter Banks I have a vibration around 1900 rpms and 69 mph. This is the first I have noticed this. Any ideas, please let me know. Thanks in advance for your help.



Jeff

I have a 04. 5 QC SWB 48RE with 3. 73 gears that started the 68-72 vibration about 5K ago. Now have 10500. I fixed this myself this weekend, however I am not certain there are not multiple causes given the comments of others.

First visit to the dealership they reindexed the drive shafts, both front and rear. No help.

Next visit, removed both and sent to be balanced. Actually worse.

Next visit, tried new shafts for both front and rear. Still bad.

The dealer had reindexed the drive shaft on the rear, first 180 degrees then an additional 90 degrees - no help.



Here is what I did. I had them remove the front driveshaft and drove the truck for a week. This confirmed to me the problem was in the rear. I will caution this is not just a drive shaft problem, but a harmonic problem with drive shaft and engine pulses on the single piece drive shaft of the short wheelbase. The Long Wheelbase versions have two-piece shafts and are having carrier bearing issue causing there problems.

By accelerating to 80mph and placing the transmission in neutral, the vibration was substantially less. Also, sitting static and running the engine to 2000 rpm produced no significant vibration. I discovered the dealer was reindexing the rear shaft by removing it from the yoke on the differential only. I had a suspicion the problem may be with the forward end of the shaft which slides onto the spline in the transfer case. This is also where the large dynamic balance ring is on the shaft.

The fix - Removing the rear shaft (front shaft is still off the truck) from the differential yoke, carefully sliding it off the splines on the front end and rotating 180 then reinstalling on the same location on the rear yoke (park brake, truck in neutral, remove yoke, truck in park to lock transfer case position, pull shaft off spline, rotate 180 and slide on spline, truck in neutral to release transfer case, rotate shaft to realign on same location of diff yoke, reinstall bolts on yoke) produced less vibration, but still existed. Back in the garage, repeat the procedure and rotated an additional 90 degrees CW (facing FWD). Test drive and I feels like a new gasser! No vibrations up to 90 mph. Note, the first 180 may do it, or a 90 CW or CCW, you will just have to experiment. This is what worked for me. Sorry for the length, but I know the frustration of not finding the problem. Hope this helps. Terry

 

[WStoops]

doesn't apply to 04. 5 as it came from factory with the hose update

 

[WStoops]

Thanks for the feedback. On mine they say that removal of the front driveshaft totally eliminates the vibration. On mine, at least, the problem is in the front. I think you are correct that the problem is multi-faceted. On some it is in the front, on others the rear. I have heard that for some the transfer case is the source of the problem. Additionally I have heard that the hydro-formed frame is transmitting the diesel vibes and that DC is considering pumping foam into the chassis. ???? I'm close to giving up. Why should this be my problem? I bought a $47,000 truck because I though I was buying quality. They have my money and I'm SOOL.

 

[jungledave]

I have a 04. 5 QC SWB 48RE with 3. 73 gears that started the 68-72 vibration about 5K ago. Now have 10500. I fixed this myself this weekend, however I am not certain there are not multiple causes given the comments of others.

First visit to the dealership they reindexed the drive shafts, both front and rear. No help.

Next visit, removed both and sent to be balanced. Actually worse.

Next visit, tried new shafts for both front and rear. Still bad.

The dealer had reindexed the drive shaft on the rear, first 180 degrees then an additional 90 degrees - no help.



Here is what I did. I had them remove the front driveshaft and drove the truck for a week. This confirmed to me the problem was in the rear. I will caution this is not just a drive shaft problem, but a harmonic problem with drive shaft and engine pulses on the single piece drive shaft of the short wheelbase. The Long Wheelbase versions have two-piece shafts and are having carrier bearing issue causing there problems.

By accelerating to 80mph and placing the transmission in neutral, the vibration was substantially less. Also, sitting static and running the engine to 2000 rpm produced no significant vibration. I discovered the dealer was reindexing the rear shaft by removing it from the yoke on the differential only. I had a suspicion the problem may be with the forward end of the shaft which slides onto the spline in the transfer case. This is also where the large dynamic balance ring is on the shaft.

The fix - Removing the rear shaft (front shaft is still off the truck) from the differential yoke, carefully sliding it off the splines on the front end and rotating 180 then reinstalling on the same location on the rear yoke (park brake, truck in neutral, remove yoke, truck in park to lock transfer case position, pull shaft off spline, rotate 180 and slide on spline, truck in neutral to release transfer case, rotate shaft to realign on same location of diff yoke, reinstall bolts on yoke) produced less vibration, but still existed. Back in the garage, repeat the procedure and rotated an additional 90 degrees CW (facing FWD). Test drive and I feels like a new gasser! No vibrations up to 90 mph. Note, the first 180 may do it, or a 90 CW or CCW, you will just have to experiment. This is what worked for me. Sorry for the length, but I know the frustration of not finding the problem. Hope this helps. Terry

Maybe you should go to your local dealership and subcontract this solution out because I had a heck of a time getting my local dealer to take it out on the asphault. Sounds like a good idea! I was convinced that my 04s problem, that was bought back, was in the t-case or rear shaft. I was also convinced that the only person who was gonna get it fixed was me! Well sounds like I failed and you didn't. I also was very suspicious about the dampener being on the slider end of the rear shaft because of it having play in the bushing. Duramax American Axle trucks have the dampener on the rear yoke where it can only spin and has no play.

 

[TTubb]

Thanks for the feedback. On mine they say that removal of the front driveshaft totally eliminates the vibration. On mine, at least, the problem is in the front. I think you are correct that the problem is multi-faceted. On some it is in the front, on others the rear. I have heard that for some the transfer case is the source of the problem. Additionally I have heard that the hydro-formed frame is transmitting the diesel vibes and that DC is considering pumping foam into the chassis. ???? I'm close to giving up. Why should this be my problem? I bought a $47,000 truck because I though I was buying quality. They have my money and I'm SOOL.

WStoops, I would first have them balance and check the run-out on the front. Don't let them touch the rear. Once balanced, suggest trying the indexing at the transfer case. Also, while the front driveshaft is off, place the transfer case in 4wd and drive up to speed. Check for vibration. Note - DO NOT shift into 4wd on the fly as the front gears are not spinning with the shaft out. There is actually a small balance wheel on the front of the transfer case. If that is out of balance, it can cause vibration. If no vibration in 4wd, after balancing the shaft, try the index procedure, indexing only to the transfer case first, 180, 90R, 90L. If no change, index to the differential, same way. Hope this helps. I was really surprised how much difference the indexing made in reducing the vibration.



I have had many conversations with DC on this and they are stumped. This is better than going through the lemon law. Good luck, Terry

 

[Matt400]

is that power steering hose you say? I really think the noise is in the rear somewhere. are you sure you're talking about the same viberation?

BNewman…what JVolkmann posted sounded to me like the power steering TSB because he has an 03 and the RPM mentioned matches the TSB.

The P/S vibration transmits to the steering wheel, if the vibration he has is felt more in the seat of the pants then I would have say to take a look at the drive shafts.



From what I have read on drive train vibrations I found that some have fixed it by re-indexing the drive shaft, changing the pinion angle or replacement all together.



As a process of elimination I would run the vehicle up to the speed it vibrates with the tires off the ground…vibration gone = tire runout trouble.

Vibration still there and you need to check tire balance.

Vibration still there its time to pull the front drive shaft.

Vibration still there its time to inspect the rear drive shaft.



A bit of a process but the fault can be tracked down.



Several here have found that pinion angle may correct the trouble. Pinion angle is adjusted with Caster on the front and shims on the rear. Pinion angle corrections allow the U joints to turn through less of an angle that would set up vibration issues.

 

[JVolkmann]

Guys, thanks for all the input. I had the P/S hose TSB done and that vibration was gone. This one can be felt in your feet. I need to get to the dealer to have the balljoints check , and want to mention the vibration but I am afraid that they will start guessing what the vibe is and start throwing parts at it. I rather take the suggestions and advice from people like you that care about, and want to take the time to fix the truck. I guess I am going to try the driveshaft indexing this weekend. Keep the ideas coming. If anyone has had a dealer fix this problem, please let US know.



Jeff

 

[TTubb]

I agree with Matt400. I should have stated that I had the pinion angles checked as part of the process of elimination when the shafts were off the truck. They were OK.



Interesting thing, my vibration was a "drone type" most noticed in the steering wheel and pedals, but not in the seat frame. For instance, I rode in the back seat when the service manager drove the truck once and thought it was fixed until I drove it myself.

 

[BNewman]

This is BS. isn't it? why does this stuff have to happen. I'll be watching this thread all day. Barry.

 

[sag2]

The dealers have access to several vibration analyzers that will pinpoint the vibration. The simple one is an EVA (electronic vibration analyzer) and was purchased by many dealers. It is also an essential tool for GM dealers, so if your dealer is dualed with a GM franchise, they have one. The newest and easiest to use is the Vtronics MTS 4100 analyzer. It will give you the vibrating component without having to do the math. About 100 dealers were loaned 4100's by DC to see if they could repair vibrations easier. The trick is locating the dealer near you that has one.

Someone mentioned the "drone" vibration. That is a first order drive line vibration interacting with the normal third order engine vibration from the 6 cyl Cummins.

 

[WinRice]

I’m new to TDR, but have been through heck on other 4WD vehicles with driveshaft vibrations. Most dealers or owners don’t understand pinion and driveshaft angles.



The 4WD Dodge QC uses 2 different driveshaft types on the front and rear, the front driveshaft uses a standard cross joint at the axle and a constant Velocity joint at the transfer case, the rear driveshaft uses a standard cross on each end. These 2 types require different alignments.



A standard cross type u-joint goes through very small acceleration and deceleration rotations. To cancel these variations the 2 joints must be in exact phase to each other and operate at the same ( plus or minus ½ degree) angle of each other. An example of this is the Dodge QC rear driveshaft, to minimize vibration the transfer case output shaft and the rear axle pinion must run a the same angles.



A constant velocity (CV) joint is actually 2 standard cross joints spaced closely together, in the same phase, so it is virtually self canceling, and doesn’t vibrate regardless of what angle you run (within reason). But the problems can occur with the standard cross joint on the other end. This joint must be run at 0 degrees (plus or minus ½ degree) of angle, or it induces vibrations that the CV joint cannot cancel. An example of this is the Dodge QC front driveshaft, to minimize vibration the front axle pinion to driveshaft angle must be 0 degrees.



How do you check this? Simple really. Jack the front axle off the ground, support the axle with a jack stand at each side of the axle with the tires about 1”-2” of the ground. Remove any jacks so that the full weight is on the jack stands, simulating the trucks at rest condition. Surprising enough, you fingers are more accurate than a dial indicator in this instance. Wedge you fingers tightly into the front yoke between the u-joint cap and the opposite yoke, turn the driveshaft 180 degrees one way, then 180 degrees back the other way. You are trying to feel the difference or movement of the yoke in the 2 extremes of driveshaft rotation, if one position feels tighter than the other position, the u-joint angle is not 0 degrees and needs to be adjusted by the concentrics on the front control arms. Adjust the concentrics a little at a time until the ‘finger’test feels the same top to bottom of the driveshaft rotation.



Sorry for the long winded post……………. hope it helps