Voltage questions

[ursusarticus]

I posted this question in the conversion forum;I'M planning on swapping the Buick 350 in my Wagoneer for the 4cyl 4.5.L ISB engine. Most likely the "experienced" engine that I will get to put in will be set up for a 24v electrical system. My question is this, is the engine ECM available in a 12v version or will I have to get "creative" and somehow step the voltage back down to 12v for the rest of the vehicle? I have not yet seen any replies as of yet so I thought perhaps a clarification was in order. The problem is that the engine that I will be obtaining will be set up for a 24v electrical system since it will be an "industrial" type engine most likely out of a city bus in England. These vehicles tend to have 24v electrical systems. I understand that the Ram application is a 12v application. The gist of my question is will the engine management system (I.S.) work with 12v power or will I have to get creative and step down the voltage to the rest of the chassis? I need the Interact engine due to the fact this will be a hwy application and the QSB is a ag engine and therefore has a different camshaft suited to a low constant speed application.
Thanks guys

 

[p-Bar]

Thats a good question. Try getting a hold of "MWilson" he works for freightliner in Maine and has been most helpful on the the Cummins stuff

 

[ursusarticus]

Thats a good question. Try getting a hold of "MWilson" he works for freightliner in Maine and has been most helpful on the the Cummins stuff

It seems to me that this bunch is challenged when someone dares to "think outside of the box" If the engine in question is coming from an industrial application ;ie anything other than a domestic p.u. or a tractor they get confused which baffles me as Cummins is one of the top three diesel engine Mfrs. in the world. I thought it was a rather simple question. I don't want the mechanically injected 4bt as the primary driver of this wagon will be a woman it needs to be smooth, quiet, and reliable with a trim level that would be practical but refined. Thanks for the tip I'll shake his tree and see what falls out.

 

[p-Bar]

You will always have the boohoo'ers hopefully I didn't come across that way? you could just use the 2- 12v batteries hoked in series for the engine function and use one of the 12v as the source for the rest of the car. You would need a battery isolator to charge the batteries . What do you think?

 

[ursusarticus]

No brother, you came across as very helpful and informative I sent MWilson a msg and he told me that he would get the answer Monday for me. I think that it good to know what I need to do to make all the players between the frame rails happy before I start as to avoid or at least limit "surprises" along the way.
Greg

 

[Road Dog]

Does your ISB engine even have an ECM? If it has a mechanical injector pump then the only electrical item would be the grid heater (and starter if you count that). Use a 12V alternator and starter and off you go. There might be a fuel cutoff solenoid too.

 

[ursusarticus]

Yes the"interact system" does run an engine PCM that is usually mounted on the left side of the engine block. so it is my understanding that it should only need a "handful" of input connections to work as intended. I plan to use an Allison 1000 transmission as well. It is my understanding that England has a number of buses that use this very powertrain so the issue as I see it is going to be integrating this powertrain's electrical system with the rest of the chassis, and this is the basis for my question. It would be very helpful if I could get someone from Cummins engineering to help me with this integration phase be fore the wrenches come out.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Just pull 12v off one battery if they are in series. If you have lots of load you can pull off both batteries individually and split the load.

 

[mwilson]

I got knocked off the rails with my camper debacle. I will get back to this tomorrow.

Do you have the ESN handy??? I can look at the ECM on the parts side of the world tonight and see if there is a nugget of information.

 

[Tractorat]

Im certainly no mechanic, but Ive been following this thread. Interesting. The tdr is really just a bunch of guys who own dodge diesel pickups. Some have some technical knowledge, some (me) do not. The first thing the op does is to insult the first responder (as well as the rest of us) who tries very politely to send him in the right direction. And now he says it would be helpful in Cummins engineering would help him.
My suggestion to you would be to contact Cummins if you want to talk to a Cummins engineer, not a users group. :-laf

 

[ursusarticus]

I got knocked off the rails with my camper debacle. I will get back to this tomorrow.

Do you have the ESN handy??? I can look at the ECM on the parts side of the world tonight and see if there is a nugget of information.

No ESN as of yet for the moment I'm just doing my "due diligence" as to what I need to plan for regarding powertrain & chassis integration as it is much less troublesome to do that now rather than in the middle of the project. That being said I appreciate all of the help and advice that you fellers are giving me before I actually begin the powertrain integration phase of this project. I plan to start first with the axles both from a J20 donor truck a full float D60 in the rear and a HD dana 44 in front with a truss to act as a bridge to help spread the extra weight on the front axle ( more massive engine, hyd winch and fabricated plate bumper & brushguard) I'm a little concerned about the front spring rate, as the load carried up front is going to increase by about a thrid of what it is with the Buick 350 between the frame rails now.

 

[ursusarticus]

Just pull 12v off one battery if they are in series. If you have lots of load you can pull off both batteries individually and split the load.

Thanks for the reminder Mark I've been getting so caught up "putting out brushfires" that that solution escaped me. Thanks for the reminder, this is the beauty of having more than one mind figuring this plan out. My apologies for the way that I may have worded my answers, yes I understand that this is a round table set up for owners & operators of a specific vehicle and engine combination and most of the guys here are looking at this in that context. My thought was seeing how the 4cyl. and 6cyl. "B" engines are closely related that some of the knowledge and experience would transfer. I apologize for ANY TOES that I may have inadvertently stomped on In the future I promise to be as neighborly as possible as I attempt to glean from the vast knowledge base here.

 

[mwilson]

We have discussed your project and your voltage question at work. The Cummins techs all say that "B" series ECM's they remember encountering are either 12 volt or 24 volt. The bigger engines (ISC, ISL, ISX) tend to have ECM's that are capable of either voltage due to the many applications that they are built for. That does not mean that your proposed powerplant is not, but odds are against it.

The only true way to know is to get an Engine Serial Number OR the CPL from an engine in the same application as the one that you are considering.

Throw me some info and I will gladly look up the sample engines for ECM voltage.

 

[ursusarticus]

We have discussed your project and your voltage question at work. The Cummins techs all say that "B" series ECM's they remember encountering are either 12 volt or 24 volt. The bigger engines (ISC, ISL, ISX) tend to have ECM's that are capable of either voltage due to the many applications that they are built for. That does not mean that your proposed powerplant is not, but odds are against it.

The only true way to know is to get an Engine Serial Number OR the CPL from an engine in the same application as the one that you are considering.

Throw me some info and I will gladly look up the sample engines for ECM voltage.

Thanks for the research I was wondering if this was the case. I'll try to contact Foxwood diesel in England and see what falls out of that tree regarding this question as they are belly button deep in those powerplants there Thanks again brother and I'll touch base with you once I get the engine.