Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) vp44 class action lawsuit

[Irontrader]

Has anyone ever inquired about doing a vp44 class action lawsuit?



These pumps should not be failing as often as they do.



It is fine for people still under the 100k warranty, but after 100k we're on our own.



My injection pump was replaced under warranty, but I've now got P0216 codes readable by a code reader although the engine runs great over 99% of the time. (runs great except after sitting 9 hours when I leave work it goes into limp mode for a couple blocks then switches back to normal)



I've got 140+k on my truck and it runs great, but I hate to think that every 70k or so I need to replace the injection pump.



I also have a problem with the general consensus of replacing the injection pump rather than replacing what is wrong with it. Seems to me this is an electrical connection or sensor problem as the truck runs great.



We (or at least I) bought this truck was we wanted an engine that would go for 400k before needing a rebuild. I'm sure mine will make it although it may be on it's 8th injection pump by that time.

 

[rweis]

Wouldn't the subjects in the suite have to have stock engines, no mods of any sort?



Seems as soon as you do anything to it, DC or Cummins could say "not for what it was designed and manufactured", not the way they bought it.



Bob Weis

 

[Hillbilly Hotrodder]

Your truck is modded. You are outside what Dodge intended. They'd have their attorneys laugh at you over your mods.



By the way, you do know that the VP pump is used on other brands of vehicles too, like BMW, don't you? It's a good pump overall.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Im ok with the injection pump. Now the lift pump is a different story.

 

[rweis]

Not a lot, but 33k on mine.



On the frame etc etc etc



There is a post about a new lp that is belt driven off the engine damper that runs in PARALLEL with the electric lp.



Just in the early phase of some have had a look at it.



Comments are very HD. Time will tell.



Bob Weis

 

[Irontrader]

My first injection pump failed when the mod was the RV275 injectors. They shouldn't be a problem as Cummins uses them.



I got my EZ box after the first injection pump failed, and after I got a fuel pressure gauge so I could monitor my lift pump. Since then I've replaced a lift pump once when pressure started getting erratic, but haven't had a total lift pump failure. The EZ came off last year and I'm running stock except for the RV injectors.



Several years ago it dyno'd at 288rwp which isn't enough to be causing excessive wear on anything.



To me it seems that the vp44's have got to have some design flaws to be failing as much as they do.

 

[SEmerson]

As inperfect as the vp44 is. The 24v is still a awsome engine compared to the competitors.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Hillbilly Hotrodder

you do know that the VP pump is used on other brands of vehicles too, like BMW, don't you? It's a good pump overall.

Where can I read more about other apps?

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

The VW TDI for instance does as well. (Well a version OF the VP anyhow)

 

[RobertMiller1]

Every VP44 failure I have read about on this board is on engines modded that are requiring more fuel to be delivered than it was engineered for.



Dodge did pull some real boners on this design.



First, The VP44 did not need a lift pump. Cummins on this board has told us that there are other applications that don't use them.



Dodge installed a lift pump by carter with the following shortcomings in the execution.



The Duty cycle is way too high. My lift pump is on all the time. I bet the duty cycle of the Carter should only be 25%



Carter calls for much heavier gauge wire than Dodge is using in thier wiring harness. (makes me wonder if this isn't contributing to pump failure)



Fuel flow is overly complex and restrictive from the tank.



Fuel tank inlet is at the rear of the tank, when it could have been at the front of the tank. (use baffles)



I bet you could run one of these trucks on no lift pump and 1/2" line with npt or an connectors for a very very long time.



But at a predictable stock hp level. say not over 500 ftl lbs of torque.

 

[jthomp2]

about mods and failures

I am going to have to disagree with the statement that no pump failures have occured expect with mods. (not exact phrasing) I have been following these threads for years and those lift pumps do fail on unmodified trucks. I have one. It failed at 68000 miles last winter. Really ticked me off as I wanted to add mods. but due to warranty issues and so many reports of failure - I did not. At least the dealer gave me absolutely NO hassle and they replaced BOTH the lift Pump and the VP44 (injection pump). But I am like some others - I question having to spent 1200 to 1700 dollars or more for new pumps every 70000 miles.

 

[cumminspwr01]

Freightliner uses the exact same ISB's in there smaller trucks and we change about 2 vp44's a month on those trucks and they have absolutely no power enhancemnents.

 

[JR2]

RobertMiller1 - I have to disagree with a bunch of what you said. .



Every VP44 failure I have read about on this board is on engines modded that are requiring more fuel to be delivered than it was engineered for.



No so, there are lots of unmodded guys with pump failures, mostly from failed lift pumps



Dodge did pull some real boners on this design.



Dodge gets the motors from cummis witht he lift pumps on them and puts them in trucks.



First, The VP44 did not need a lift pump. Cummins on this board has told us that there are other applications that don't use them.



I belive the other apps that don't use lift pumps are either stationary equipment or vechicles with fuel tanks at the same level as the VP44, trust me we need a lift pump





Dodge installed a lift pump by carter with the following

shortcomings in the execution.



Once again, Dodge does not install the lift pumps, they come on the engine. We all think Dodge ought to put the lift pump back by the tank, but Cummins puts the lift pump on the motor.



The Duty cycle is way too high. My lift pump is on all the time. I bet the duty cycle of the Carter should only be 25%



This might be true, I don't know, but I do know that even Carter thinks the pump is being used wrong. Carter just sells pumps, they really don't care what you do with them. Heck they probably laugh every time they go to the bank and cash the big fat checks they get from Dodge for lift pumps.



Carter calls for much heavier gauge wire than Dodge is using in thier wiring harness. (makes me wonder if this isn't contributing to pump failure)



There are lots of guys that have wired the lift pump to run off a relay from battery power. They still have failures, the pump is just not that great



Fuel flow is overly complex and restrictive from the tank.



I don't know about being complex, but it is certanily restrictive, the banjo and line between the lift pump and fuel filter is a joke.



Fuel tank inlet is at the rear of the tank, when it could have been at the front of the tank. (use baffles)



The inlet is just about right in the middle of the tank. The tank could use some baffles, that is a fact.



I bet you could run one of these trucks on no lift pump and 1/2" line with npt or an connectors for a very very long time.



I really doubt it, the VP44 just can not suck fuel up hill. A bigger line will just make it harder to pull the fuel out of the tank.





I would also have to argue that the stock lift pump is not the piece of garbage we all say it is. Now before you flame me listen to my logic. How many people have found a better replacment that has lasted as long as a regular lift pump in the stock location? Not many. The PE4200 - nope they fail, Aermotive - failed Holley blue black red - failed Carter HP4500 - nope failed FASS & Fuel Prep - too new, but looking good. Get back to me in a year. So the carter does fail, but just about as often as the other pumps in the stock system. The only guys that I know about that have had much success with aftermarket pumps have gravity fed them.



I would also add that the stock carter does work good on some trucks, my Dad's 98. 5 went over 80K hard miles with the stock pump making 13 psi the whole time, he is on his second pump and it at 130K now and all is good. I know several folks at 70-80 K that are in the same boat. I on the other hand am not in that boat, I have replaced 3 pumps on my 01, but I'am bombed heavily.



In the end I doubt a class action on the VP44 or Lift pump would fly. Those of us who are bombed are out automatically as they will say our mods casued the problems. Those of us that are stock are not going to muster the numbers of people or $$ to put up a fight.

 

[RobertMiller1]

you missed several of my points.



The wiring harness to the lift pump is All chrysler and is too small a gauge.



The pump is indeed installed in the wrong location. True, Cummins may have mounted it on the engine, but Chrysler engineers made the specification. If Chrysler had said to Cummins no lift pump, we'll put one in back where it belongs, That would be the way it was done.



I have an 86 diesel trooper and there is not lift pump. And I remain unconvinced that one is really required. There are probably more examples over the years of diesels wihout lift pumps than with.



My point was in questioning chrysler design.

And many many of the failures have been bombed trucks.



I feel quite certain that there are many stock trucks out there running around with failed pumps. People who have never check lp fuel pressure. I have friends like that. My own pump was putting out 2psi at idle for about 10 seconds after starting, and reading vacuum (vp44 suction) at all other speeds. probably been that way for a very long time.



Mine new summit carter is now mounted in the rear where it belongs.



Anyway... it is just a thought. doesn't really matter anyway.

 

[MPatrick]

Failure relative to mods

I started having hesitation at 54K. No mods at all. DC replaced only after Cummins SE diagnosed the problem.

 

[daveshoe]

I realize that lift pump failure is contributing to VP failure, back to the focus of the thread, I am becoming convinced that the gorilla on the back of your VP is HEAT. On a recent thread [now closed due to a very heated discussion] , there was a high performance VP that came with a warranty of one year. That warranty now covers the mechanicals of the VP and not the electronics. Heat [read BOMBS] seems to affect the electronics of these injection pumps. Worst case scenario is probably running your tank to near empty , towing hard, and bombing the crap out of her.

And then do a shut-down without cooling down first.

 

[Tomscreek]

My own unscientific observations have also concluded that fueling boxes and other mods DO contribute to fuel system failures. Apparently there have also been some failures with stock setups but I'd sure like to see the results of a poll on stock vs. modified for lift pump and VP pump failure.

 

[HBarlow]

I experienced a lift pump failure at approximately 67,000 miles. Thanks to the TDR forums I recognized the problem when the truck stumbled and drove directly to a local dealer. The failed pump was diagnosed and replaced within about an hour while I waited, with no appointment.



My truck odometer now reads 123k and the original VP-44 is still working fine. A trained dealer mechanic recently ran the test on my lift pump prior to a trip to Alaska. Output exceeded minimum specs. The replacement pump seems to be a good one... so far.



I don't have any complaints.



The owner of a truck with a modified fuel delivery system, myself included, would have an extremely difficult (impossible?) time winning a lawsuit against Cummins or Dodge over a fueling system failure.



Could fuel source and fuel quality have a bearing on the issue? Could there be a correlation between brand of replacement fuel filter/change interval and lift pump/injection pump failure?



Harvey

 

[NKing]

My LP and VP44 have been replaced under warranty, I only have 82K on my truck and it is bone stock. I would say that the failures have nothing to do with mods in MOST cases.



Nic

 

[Shelby Griggs]

112K on my 2001. 5, on LP #3 (2nd replacement), but VP 44 is still going strong.



I have been told by the head tech at the local Dodge delaer that fuel quality is a huge factor. He was replacing the LP on a 3rd gen contractors truck on Thursday. He sees a lot of failures on trucks buring red fuel pumped from a tank in the bed meant to fill equipment. I have reead here over and over that off road fuel is the same as on road with the exception of the color. Maybe it is and the problem is the tank it is stored in? In any event the local dealer claims the red fuel causes problems and that poor fuel quality of any color is also a problem.



My take on the VP 44 and my hope is that by watching the LP FP and taking corrective action when the LP dies will go a long ways toward extending the VP 44 life, or at least I hope so.



SHG