Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) vp44 to p7100..........

[TIngram]

here is something to talk about, it might have been covered though. if you could change your vp to a p7100 would you. i would in an instant. it would be nice if someone would come up with a kit to do this with. for the price of a couple vps i think that it could be done. a whole lot of parts would have to be changed but i think it could be done what do you guys think of it would you do it?

tad

 

[TomGolden]

You do have a great idea, but you are not the first. There are actually already at least a few, if not a bunch of vendors, as well as TDR members, who sell and/or have done this already.



Piers Harry in Canada

Diesel Dynamics in Las Vegas

Enterprise Engine in Ohio (maybe??)



I know these vendors will do this for you. TDR member RogerRodbolt did this, but was at least initially very disappointed in the results. I am not sure if he was finally able to get the system tuned properly for his needs.



See, the potential disadvantage of doing this, other than the extreme cost, is that you can no longer use the electronic fueling and timing boxes such as Edge or PowerPax boxes, since the 7100 is mechanical. Of course, this may not be of concern to those who do go this route...

 

[Royal]

You could trade for a new 2004 with the common rail system and have money left over for the price you will pay to convert to a

P7100 system. Also be aware that the P7100 pump was not all that trouble free.

 

[Ncostello]

Scheid Diesel has done this. I think it was twin turbo'ed too... at least one of them was. They'll make the custom injector lines. However they installed a 24V engine with a P-Pump into a pre-98. 5 truck so there was no conflict or problems with an ECM, PCM.



Makes me wonder what kind of box you would need to fool the computers into "seeing" the VP in operation. Surely you would have to install something in place of the VP at the plug on the harness.



I think the figures I've seen thrown around in the past were in the neighborhood of $3000 to $4000 once is all said and done... and that includes a P-pump.



I really doubt you could trade in a 2000 for a 2004 and have any money left over. You'd probably have to come up with about $15,000 to make up the difference.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Yup, in a heatbeat I'd do it.



HERE IS A LINK to another thread on the same topic that I started.



I hate the chances of VP's gonig out, they just pop up all over.





Andrew

 

[98rammer]

well, that thread says it all. if it's not set up perfectly and properly, you can come out losing horsepower. the reliability though would be nicer.



Tom

 

[TIngram]

the p7100 is a great pump same one on our john deere tractors lots of hours on it runs great i dont care what anyone says it is a great pump now the sutoff feature on the 94-98. 5 trucks was a joke. for three thousand i would do it. two vps would almost pay for it. oh well something to talk about.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Royal said: "Also be aware that the P7100 pump was not all that trouble free."

Would you care to elaborate on that statement?



What specific failure prone sections of the pump have you seen?



Matt

 

[98rammer]

Re: Royal said: "Also be aware that the P7100 pump was not all that trouble free."

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

Would you care to elaborate on that statement?



What specific failure prone sections of the pump have you seen?



Matt

well, not tightening the adjustment nut just enough is prone to failure



it seems like the 7100 will do better once the low sulfer fuel comes out unless they can figure out how to do the process without taking away the lubricosity properties



Tom

 

[C. Harlan]

So what is the total cost of a P-Pump conversion?? If I ever have to buy an over-valved motor, this is the first BOMB I will be doing!!!



-Chris-

 

[Ncostello]

You might as well begin saving in the neighborhood of $3000 to $4000. Thats what I remember from old posts where they added up all the little nuts and bolts you'll need. Depends on what kind of contacts you have for parts and if you'll do it or have someone do it.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Tom - the lubricity of the fuel is allegedly not going to be affected by the 'new' lower sulphur content.



Lightman300 had some good thoughts/links on this subject.



Since very little of the P-1700 is lubricated by the fuel (remember that the pump is lubricated by the engine oil..... ) - the fuel lubricity isn't so much of an issue.



Matt

 

[Hohn]

P-pump conversions... . not worth the time or money. You would be better off throwing that money into a set of twins.



Or just trade up to a new CP3-equipped truck.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

So 3-4000 for nuts and bolts( I actually heard a little higher like 5000) + the labor. It does take a while to do. To pay someone to do it might easily exceed 7000. When DD did it they said when all was said and done they had spent 15k. Thats with twins and transmission work probably. Thats a lot of money.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Hohn

P-pump conversions... . not worth the time or money. You would be better off throwing that money into a set of twins.



Or just trade up to a new CP3-equipped truck.

Why do you say they arn't worth the time or money? I think it depends on what you want. If you want the dinosaur of an over-fueling P-pump that is all mechanical, where a failure is EXTREMELY rare, and most BOMBing is done with physical tuning, over the higher-prone failure rate, punch a wire and your done, nothing else you can tinker with VP-44 then you might want it. There are positives to be had on both sides of the fence.



As for being worth it, I know if I had the money I would do it in a heartbeat. There is nothing in the VP that I feel I would have to "sacrifice" if switching to a "P". There are several 24v "P"'s out there that have made the owners more then happy. The ONLY draw back is having to tune, but I see that as a fun challenge, not a hassle(I say that without having to have done that).



I do know that Larry C. (Rogerredbolt) was, and still might be, VERY unhappy with his conversion, but Doug S. (JetPilot) loves his. It's all about what you want, and what your willing to work for, and how much patience you have.



As for the CP3 trucks, the VP has enough problems now, more electronics is the last thing I want. Even more so when the trucks are still to be tested at the length that our VP's have. Not saying they WILL fail, just that this is unknown right now.



Trading the truck in on a new one? No way, I don't care for the styling of the new trucks, and don't want to get rid of my truck. The cost would be more for trading it in also.



If I knew what I know now, I would have a 12v instead of a 24v.







Andrew

 

[MD500E]

I was luck enough to get a few hundred miles behind the wheel of a friends 24 valve converted to a p-pump. All I can say is WOW . When set up right these pumps are amazing. If money was not an issue I would be convert my truck in a second!

 

[krs]

The figure that I saw here was Pier's estimate of at least $7500. to do the conversion. There have been a few threads on the subject and the costs mentioned were always in the neighborhood of $8000.



Although pumps come up for less, Pier's site lists $2800. for a replacement p7100 . With that how did the $3000. figure get in this picture?

 

[Jetpilot]

I have a 24v p-pumped truck and love it! I guess it depends on why you really want to convert one. If all out performance is what you are after then I think it would be worth it. If what you are looking for is just better reliability then it is a pretty expensive route to go. The conversion is not cheap by any means..... Big_Daddy_T brought up the DD truck and the money spent on it, well its a single charger truck not twins and the work was done by DD for DD so you be the judge of what one would cost



My conversion was done by Piers. PDR has done several of these trucks and as far as I know all the owners are happy.



Doug

 

[TIngram]

i am not saying that i doubt your word but i know a guy around here that converted did all the work himself, running a single charger, and had less than 4k in it. got a great deal on a new pump cant mention were had lines made dirt cheap, all i can say is that it is good to know people that like to experamint. i am trying to get the same oppertunity. if i convert ill let you know what it cost and the outcome. i will do all the work myself other than the inside of the pump. hope the 7k-8k is no were near o what ill spend. wasnt trying to light any fires but thats what i know this guy spent.

tad

 

[Ncostello]

The 3-4K popped into my head from memory... thats how it got here. It seems like I remember reading where someone added this up and got this figure. Perhaps that was because they already had a pump and this amount was the remainder... or maybe it was because they did all the labor themselves. I cant remember exactly and I'm not gonna look. I just trusted my memory for a second and remembered those figures. If I'm wrong, sorry for posting inaccurate stuff.



Just know its expensive, at least to me. I contemplated it for a while then just decided the easiest conversions meant getting a 94-98 12V truck in one big piece.