Wake up RAM

[CUMMINZ]

I think this truck should have a similar wider front axle with better turning radius and bigger brakes like the 4500/5500 are equipped with. Heck, IOW we want a RAM that would compete with the F450 pickup. I think a RAM 4500 pickup would sell well.

I agree with you. Issue is the 4500/5500 is derated HP.

 

[AH64ID]

Ford has 2 different F450’s, and the F450 pickup was put on the market to compete with the Ram 3500... so I doubt FCA will do much.

 

[dieselshadow]

I agree with you. Issue is the 4500/5500 is derated HP.

Yeah, but What I'm suggesting is a complete different truck, not a C&C truck, a pickup, just like the F450 pickup. Ford has the F450 pickup AND a F450 C&C truck. So a RAM 4500 pickup would be a completely different truck than what they offer now and compete directly with the F450 pickup.

 

[AnonEd]

I get what you're looking for, and the answer can be probably be found if we could answer these questions: How many F450 pickups does Ford sell? Do they do it at a considerable profit? Does Ram have production capacity to be adding models? Can Ram keep the quiet and comfort of the new trucks with a pickup bed adapted to a straight-rail frame? Not saying yes or no, just my two cents where I'd look.

 

[AH64ID]

The current Ram 3500 has the frame/axles to support over a 15K GVW, and does it with 17” wheels. It also boats a higher GCWR than the 4500.

While it would be cool to see a 3500 with more than a 14K GVW that’s not a Ram issue, but rather a class of vehicle issue. Same reason many 2500s are stupidly underrated at 10K GVWR and don’t have any payload to speak about. Get the classes of vehicles modernized and then you might see something.

If class 2 extended to 12,000 and class 3 to 16,000 then we would actually get something rated for what it’s capable of instead of limiting GVWR to meet a class.

 

[dieselshadow]

I would still like to see a RAM 4500 pickup with 19.5s, wider front axle with better turning radius/bigger brakes, pickup bed, and HO powertrain. Not a C&C chassis with a pickup bed on it. Two completely different rigs.

 

[AH64ID]

I would still like to see a RAM 4500 pickup with 19.5s, wider front axle with better turning radius/bigger brakes, pickup bed, and HO powertrain. Not a C&C chassis with a pickup bed on it. Two completely different rigs.

Right, but as a pickup it would still be a Class 3 with the same “limitations” as the current 3500 so for people that live in a state where GVWR matters you won’t gain anything and actually lose payload since it would be heavier. Not that it wouldn’t handle better, and may folks don’t live in places where GVWR matters I’m just looking at it from a cost benefit side. FCA doesn’t need any of that to compete with the F450 on paper. Same FAWR, within 300lbs on RAWR, same GVWR all on existing frame/axles/suspension.

 

[TFucili]

If we are building an "RV Special", I'd rather have a hauler body with good storage than climb over the sides, or crawl in the gate to hitch up.

 

[CUMMINZ]

The current Ram 3500 has the frame/axles to support over a 15K GVW, and does it with 17” wheels. It also boats a higher GCWR than the 4500.

While it would be cool to see a 3500 with more than a 14K GVW that’s not a Ram issue, but rather a class of vehicle issue. Same reason many 2500s are stupidly underrated at 10K GVWR and don’t have any payload to speak about. Get the classes of vehicles modernized and then you might see something.

If class 2 extended to 12,000 and class 3 to 16,000 then we would actually get something rated for what it’s capable of instead of limiting GVWR to meet a class.

I keep hearing the same thing said about 17" wheels. I have towed with the same vehicle with 17" and later with 19.5"s. There is NO comparison. Much longer wear length and much more stable. I don't care for what the 17" is rated on the rubber. It is where the rubber meets the road that counts. Even now with GCVWs going over 30k the chance of a huge pileup on the freeway and getting stopped safely after a violent swerving from side to side you might be luck to survive.

 

[dieselshadow]

Right, but as a pickup it would still be a Class 3 with the same “limitations” as the current 3500 so for people that live in a state where GVWR matters you won’t gain anything and actually lose payload since it would be heavier. Not that it wouldn’t handle better, and may folks don’t live in places where GVWR matters I’m just looking at it from a cost benefit side. FCA doesn’t need any of that to compete with the F450 on paper. Same FAWR, within 300lbs on RAWR, same GVWR all on existing frame/axles/suspension.

I'm arguing for a different weight class altogether John, not a class 3. Again, a truck that would sit right next to a C&C 4500, just with lighter suspension so it's GVWR isn't quite as heavy as the current 4500. IOW a 3500 suspension pickup with better wheels, tires, brakes, and turning geometry from the 4500/5500 trucks. The C&C 4500/5500 have a much higher GVWR than what we are talking about here with a super stiff suspension. I rather like the air-ride I have now. Call it a 4000. LOL I'd like to have my cake and eat it too...

But I can also wish in one hand and...........

 

[Wiredawg]

Yeah, but What I'm suggesting is a complete different truck, not a C&C truck, a pickup, just like the F450 pickup. Ford has the F450 pickup AND a F450 C&C truck. So a RAM 4500 pickup would be a completely different truck than what they offer now and compete directly with the F450 pickup.

DS,
Coorect...I THINK the F450 pickup may not be a C&C with a pickup bed, but more like an F350 with many C&C components. My first attraction to the 2009 Ram C&C was Aisin, big brakes, and commercial tires. The C&C market here in TX has taken off... ranchers and big RV 5th wheel owners are buying Max Tow 5500s instead of Freightliner Sport Chassis's. I got busted on my estimated towing duty cycle on my 2017 5500 a while back, but the truck was purchased to tow heavy. You could probably ask GSBrockman how much he misses going from HO Cummins 3500 to a 325HP/750TQ 2018 Ram C&C 4500 hotshotting.

All that said, I wouldn't trade my 2017 5500 to get more gears in a transmission, but certainly favor more gears if shopping for a new one.

heats, Ron

 

[AH64ID]

I’ve used single 19.5’s too and there is no doubt they are more stable, I’m simply pointing out the specs and ratings on paper.. what FCA will use to justify a new build.

I will say that my 05 with 19.5’s a aftermarket rear anti-sway bar and airbags wasn’t any more stable loaded than my bone stock ‘18 on 18’s loaded up. It’s pretty amazing what the new frame and suspension have done for handling weight. That’s loaded up to 20K GCW, 12K GVW with 7K on the rear axle, so maxed for the 18’s. Same load, same trailer, same roads.

 

[AH64ID]

I'm arguing for a different weight class altogether John, not a class 3. Again, a truck that would sit right next to a C&C 4500, just with lighter suspension so it's GVWR isn't quite as heavy as the current 4500. IOW a 3500 suspension pickup with better wheels, tires, brakes, and turning geometry. The C&C 4500/5500 have a much higher GVWR than what we are talking about here with a super stiff suspension. I rather like the air-ride I have now. Call it a 4000. LOL I'd like to have my cake and eat it too...

But I can also wish in one hand and...........

Yeah it would be pretty sweet to get a new class. I wonder what the emissions differences would be if you were to get a pickup with more than 14K GVWR.

While we’re wishing I’d like a SRW with a 8K RAWR.

 

[dieselshadow]

Yeah it would be pretty sweet to get a new class. I wonder what the emissions differences would be if you were to get a pickup with more than 14K GVWR.

Like I was saying before, I can wish in one hand and....

 

[CUMMINZ]

Yeah it would be pretty sweet to get a new class. I wonder what the emissions differences would be if you were to get a pickup with more than 14K GVWR.

While we’re wishing I’d like a SRW with a 8K RAWR.

I hear you on a beefed up single rear wheel. When we were on our cross country trip three years ago and staying in an RV park in upper Michigan we saw a 350 new Ford with single rear wheels and 285x19.5"s. Rear sweet and he was towing a huge 5er and said it did great. We have actually been beating around the idea of a new RAM when they finally do get 8-10 speed and going to a 3500 SRW. With the thought that brand new HD aluminum 19.5"x7.5" singles with 265s.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

Just took a peek over at the Ford website... their F450 Pickup solves a common challenge the Ram 3500 pickup owners face... more in the bed weight carrying capacity.... and yes, I know our Rams can go over rated load capacities (except exceeding tires/axles), but there is a segment (me included) who wants extra capacity built in AND NO ratings exceeded.

All in favor of a Ram 4500 Pickup, raise your hand. Vote has carried, let it be manufactured. BTW, a LIMFAC for Ram 4500 P/U owners, y'all will ONLY be able to go 87MPH, as this is the MAX speed rating available on 19.5 tires.

Cheers, Ron

 

[dieselshadow]

BTW, a LIMFAC for Ram 4500 P/U owners, y'all will ONLY be able to go 87MPH, as this is the MAX speed rating available on 19.5 tires.

That's not a deal killer for me. My truck is a truck, not a race car. I have other toys that handle that duty much much better.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Friends,

Just took a peek over at the Ford website... their F450 Pickup solves a common challenge the Ram 3500 pickup owners face... more in the bed weight carrying capacity.... and yes, I know our Rams can go over rated load capacities (except exceeding tires/axles), but there is a segment (me included) who wants extra capacity built in AND NO ratings exceeded.

All in favor of a Ram 4500 Pickup, raise your hand. Vote has carried, let it be manufactured. BTW, a LIMFAC for Ram 4500 P/U owners, y'all will ONLY be able to go 87MPH, as this is the MAX speed rating available on 19.5 tires.

Cheers, Ron

What I have seen I don't ever drive in excess of 80. The upper rating of 87mph is not a big deal until you are driving and heavy towing about 85mph and something goes wrong with your rig or the road circumstances. Your plummet from 85 to "0" mpg will be very fast using 17" tires.

 

[Wiredawg]

That's not a deal killer for me. My truck is a truck, not a race car. I have other toys that handle that duty much much better.

I know TS... it was ATTEMPTED humor... hoped emoticons would help give it away. There's a couple times I've run my 5500 at 80MPH solo on 85MPH speed limit TX roads, but with 4.88s, 70MPH is my usual SOLO cruising speed.

EDIT: My towing MAX speed is 65MPH.

Chee-eers, Ron

 

[TFucili]

Friends,

Just took a peek over at the Ford website... their F450 Pickup solves a common challenge the Ram 3500 pickup owners face... more in the bed weight carrying capacity.... and yes, I know our Rams can go over rated load capacities (except exceeding tires/axles), but there is a segment (me included) who wants extra capacity built in AND NO ratings exceeded.

All in favor of a Ram 4500 Pickup, raise your hand. Vote has carried, let it be manufactured. BTW, a LIMFAC for Ram 4500 P/U owners, y'all will ONLY be able to go 87MPH, as this is the MAX speed rating available on 19.5 tires.

Cheers, Ron

IIRC, when I was contemplating my pickup vs C&C decision, in comparable trim the F-450 only had about 300 lbs higher payload than my 3500??? I would favor sharper cutting steer axle, and commercial grade rubber, though.