Warrany Cancelled

[TCDiesel]

I have been to arbitration many times (I don"t fight frivolous claims) the Court administrator has always order the dealer to Make Repairs or supply cause (DC usually has a dealer representative appear Service writer/manager)The Court only wants expert testimony. I have never seen a Tech testify always Manager/service writer, generally the Rep orders repairs solely on cost(it cost more to prove the cause than the repair).

 

[catoiler]

I ask them to Purchase WITHOUT POWER-TRAIN WARRANTY

That is like going to mcdonalds and asking for a quarter pounder without cheese and then wanting the $. 30 back,ain't going to happen! :-laf

 

[TCDiesel]

That is like going to mcdonalds and asking for a quarter pounder without cheese and then wanting the $. 30 back,ain't going to happen! :-laf

Yep,,,McDonald's Warranty is better than DC, if you order your Quarter Pounder without cheese and it comes with Cheese, McDonald's will Refund you 100%,Now If you Bring your own fresh Pickles and onions and Put them on your Burger, and when you bite into it and it only Half done, Then you return to McDonald's and say it"s only Half Done, The manager looks at the Pickles and onions and comments " your pickles and onions are the Problem". Now you remove the Pickles and Onions, were the Problem Still with the BEEF...

 

[hotram03]

fireman, for 3000. 00 for the dealer to do the stock pump, I would buy a stage-1 modded cp-3 and rail cap, along with a FASS system to feed that pump, for half the price of the stocker from NGM diesel performance, and do it all myself, and tell the dealer to go to H#$L, just my 2c.

 

[BHolm]

From what I have read in the TDR mag, you are pushing the CP3 pretty hard with a fueling box. The six gun with speed loader listed in your sig is certainly capable of putting extra stress on the pump. I am not sure how anyone could deny this. Maybe it didn't cause the failure but did it contribute? I would bet it did. Running more fuel and boost brings added stress to many engine and driveline components. Not sure how anyone could deny that either. Running higher power levels WILL shorten the lifespan of components not designed specifically for the higher power. How on earth can you justify warranty coverage when there is a box on the truck capable of adding over 100hp and 150-200 lb/ft of torque? Whether you like it or not, when you modded the truck you voided the warranty, regardless of the wording of Magnuson-Moss. I don't think the intent of that act was to allow owners to seriously increase power (and stress) levels on our vehicles with no consequence. Once you go down that road I think you should expect to take your lumps if they should come.

 

[TCDiesel]

The pumps I have seen leak in the inlet side, Bosch/Cummins Design was change BY DC,Look at the Parts Leading up to the PUMP (all MOPAR),Also the Six-Gun and PowerPDA will Not raise Pressure Above 24,500psi (spike) Max this is under Bosch Limits for rail and pump. Don't take this wrong when you Mod the Risk Does increases. I just don"t like the stand ,appearance with cause.

 

[KBennett]

fireman, no flaming intended but when you put the box on your truck did you expect the dealer to cover the drivetrain under warranty?

You sound surprised and confused.



Where does the money come from to repair these modified trucks?

From a dealer/manufacturers perspective they have built the truck to meet the requirements of the stock horsepower and torque and then sell it to make a profit. Any modifications to the truck is going to put added strain on the drivetrain components, thereby voiding your warranty.



Is it the manufactures fault that the CP3 is leaking? Maybe, but you modified your truck and that may have caused your problem. My suggestion would be to pull the pump and send it to a third party to have it inspected. If the problem is a manufacturing defect then you have a right to complain.



Personally, I am glad the dealer does not cover modified trucks under warranty. Those of us that like to keep our trucks stock should not have to pay for the guys that are modifying for more power.

 

[Spooled-up]

Yep,,,McDonald's Warranty is better than DC, if you order your Quarter Pounder without cheese and it comes with Cheese, McDonald's will Refund you 100%,Now If you Bring your own fresh Pickles and onions and Put them on your Burger, and when you bite into it and it only Half done, Then you return to McDonald's and say it"s only Half Done, The manager looks at the Pickles and onions and comments " your pickles and onions are the Problem". Now you remove the Pickles and Onions, were the Problem Still with the BEEF...

Yes, but the manager would have to prove that your pickles and onions caused the beef to be undercooked.

 

[mconstable]

Yep,,,McDonald's Warranty is better than DC, if you order your Quarter Pounder without cheese and it comes with Cheese, McDonald's will Refund you 100%,Now If you Bring your own fresh Pickles and onions and Put them on your Burger, and when you bite into it and it only Half done, Then you return to McDonald's and say it"s only Half Done, The manager looks at the Pickles and onions and comments " your pickles and onions are the Problem". Now you remove the Pickles and Onions, were the Problem Still with the BEEF...

No Offense, I know this is a serious thread... but

That right there made me spit my iced tea all over myself! LMAO

 

[y-knot]

I feel for you trust me I do... ..... But you can not have it both ways.



Dodge has done everything they can to provide you and me with the highest HP and T diesel engines on the market, and they are fully covered under their warranty. If you find these is not enough, then be prepared to pay for your own problems. Dodge is not at fault here, and this is the same policy that has been in effect for years. You are your own warranty station..... who many times does that phrase need to be said... .

This should be a warning to everyone out there... . do not modify the engine or you will not have a warranty



Think it is bad now, wait till the 2007 engines arrive with all the additional EPA equipment and the Particulate filters. Changing the exhaust will be a federal crime and void any warranty work as will the tampering of the engine itself. I am not sure what all these aftermarket power adders are going to do? But I really see there market drying up. The stricter EPA standards and the increased enforcement of these standards will put most aftermarket power adders, intake systems and exhaust systems handlers out of business.



If you need more power then by all means add it and enjoy yourself, just don't go wining about the warranty. And if you have to have the extra power or like to tinker with the diesel, make sure you buy a pre '07 standard diesel.

 

[HOBrian]

y-Knot, Very well said.



It should be very interesting in 07

 

[DieselFiend]

Just because you play doesn't mean you have to pay if the "play" wasn't the primary cause of the failure. My CP3 was leaking and it was obvious my chip wasn't the cause of the failure. Go to war man. Use the Mos act and remind them of their responsibility to prove to you the chip was the cause of the problem. Lazy BS dealer.

 

[RustyJC]

Magnuson-Moss protection was intended to cover aftermarket direct replacement parts such as air filter elements, oil filters, etc. The following excerpt is from the Federal Trade Commission website:

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.



In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc. , voids this warranty.



While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.



While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.



Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.

Aftermarket products that fundamentally modify the original warranted item (such as power enhancing modules) are a whole different kettle of fish.



Rusty

 

[MRosinski]

I just got my 05' back from the dealer yesterday. They replaced my leaking cp3 under warranty with no questions asked. They said they have had to replace a ton of these so far. They knew I used to run a hot juice, but didnt care because this is a on going problem even with stock trucks.

 

[nps]

So the conclusion is that if you put power enhancing mods on you should expect to get NO DRIVETRAIN warranty coverage. If you get warranty coverage, that's upside and consider yourself lucky. I understood this from the day I plugged in my EZ. Not that hard to understand at the end of the day.

 

[DieselFiend]

I couldn't disagree with you more BHolm.

I couldn't disagree with you more BHolm. The magnuson-moss act is in place to protect consumers against dealers/manufacturers from voiding your warranty simply because you modded, which is exactly why this happened. The burden is on them to prove conclusively that all the added power from the mod caused the failure. Not simply because of the mod. If that were the case then my drive train warranty should be void because I tinted my windows.

From what I have read in the TDR mag, you are pushing the CP3 pretty hard with a fueling box. The six gun with speed loader listed in your sig is certainly capable of putting extra stress on the pump. I am not sure how anyone could deny this. Maybe it didn't cause the failure but did it contribute? I would bet it did. Running more fuel and boost brings added stress to many engine and driveline components. Not sure how anyone could deny that either. Running higher power levels WILL shorten the lifespan of components not designed specifically for the higher power. How on earth can you justify warranty coverage when there is a box on the truck capable of adding over 100hp and 150-200 lb/ft of torque? Whether you like it or not, when you modded the truck you voided the warranty, regardless of the wording of Magnuson-Moss. I don't think the intent of that act was to allow owners to seriously increase power (and stress) levels on our vehicles with no consequence. Once you go down that road I think you should expect to take your lumps if they should come.

 

[ohnoitsyu]

I'm kind of a newbie in the diesel world, but mechanical stuff is not magic. Will someone please clarify how the power enhancement damaged the pump?



Sure, mods have been made to increase the engine's output. The pump simply pumps fuel based on the drive belt turning the pump wheel. The pump does not turn any faster or "harder" (if you can explain that it does, I'd like to hear that!) with the engine's additional power. The pump wheel simply turns the pump, and it pumps fuel.



Okay, so the fueling box causes the injectors to squirt more fuel in the engine. How does this change the pump? Yes, if so much fuel is injected, I'd guess that the pump may not supply enough fuel to the rail, and the potential power gains are limited. Since engine RPM doesn't change, the pump can't TRY to pump any more fuel - it simply turns and pumps fuel at whatever engine RPM it's running at. If the pump doesn't supply enough fuel, the rail pressure and subsequent horsepower wouldn't be what it could. That doesn't damage a pump. That also wouldn't cause a pump to leak.



I'd guess someone will say that the "lean" condition in the pump caused it to heat up and fail. Well, the pump is still fed the same amount of fuel as stock, so the amount of "cooling" at the pump remains the same, regardless if there isn't much pressure on the "out" side of the pump. Some could even argue that the reduce pressure on the out side of the pump may actually reduce the load and the amount of work the pump actually does.



Please seriously consider this and explain why my logic may be incorrect. I am curious.



By the way, those who are worried that there will be no aftermarket for 2007 stuff and beyond should not be. There are many legislative issues for the "Right to Repair" that are hugely in favor of the aftermarket. Many of these will likely pass.

 

[RustyJC]

By the way, those who are worried that there will be no aftermarket for 2007 stuff and beyond should not be. There are many legislative issues for the "Right to Repair" that are hugely in favor of the aftermarket. Many of these will likely pass.

"Repair" is not the same thing as "Modify".



Rusty

 

[jnelson]

A buddy of mine was having trouble with a local dealer. This is what he did -



Sent a certified letter to the "owner" of the dealership stating the problems in which he was having. He notified them that if not taken care of within 10 days (Texas requirement for small claims <$5,000) he would sue.



He was not contacted within 10 days so he filed in small claims court at a cost of $57. 00.



The matter was settled days after the "owner" of the dealership received his court summons.



If it worked once it will work again. The burden of proof is in the dealers "court" not yours.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

fireman, no flaming intended but when you put the box on your truck did you expect the dealer to cover the drivetrain under warranty?

You sound surprised and confused.



Where does the money come from to repair these modified trucks?

From a dealer/manufacturers perspective they have built the truck to meet the requirements of the stock horsepower and torque and then sell it to make a profit. Any modifications to the truck is going to put added strain on the drivetrain components, thereby voiding your warranty.



Is it the manufactures fault that the CP3 is leaking? Maybe, but you modified your truck and that may have caused your problem. My suggestion would be to pull the pump and send it to a third party to have it inspected. If the problem is a manufacturing defect then you have a right to complain.



Personally, I am glad the dealer does not cover modified trucks under warranty. Those of us that like to keep our trucks stock should not have to pay for the guys that are modifying for more power.

I agree that obviously bogus warranty claims should be denied but CP3's are failing allover the place. Just because he had a box on the truck does not mean he caused the failure and the district manager voiding his warranty without forensically inspecting the failure is at best lazy and a bit under handed. The Chevy and the dodge use basically the same CP3 and they are both having rampant failures without reguard to engine modification. I have a buddy that went through 3 CP3's and 18 injectors on his stock truck and now that he as put boxes and aftermarket injectors he has had ZERO failures... So how does a box cause a CP3 to go out? They fail without reason.



Dodge is looking for any reason not to cover valid warranty claims. It's cheaper to try to force the customer to pay. I took my '01 to the dealer at 35k mi with a bad lift pump. they popped the hood and tried to deny the claim. I quickly pointed out that the fuel system from the tank to the pump was stock and that using the fuel supplied by the pump in no way affected the function(or lack there of) of the pump. they then proceeded to swap the lift pump under warranty. They had also just finished swapping the lift pump on a stock truck (the owner was leaving as I came in). The lift pumps are a known issue that has been enough for dodge to engineer a retrofit kit. Had I not been standing there I would have been screwed. they tried to deny the claim without inspecting the pump, supply lines or connections. That is not performing due diligence to show that I caused the failure. They rely on intimidation instead.



It's not right.



I have customers that get repairs covered under warranty that they should not. That hacks me off just as much as dodge blanketly denying claims.