Water pump replacement

[MichaelRitchey]

We had the water pump fail on our 2007 RAM HD 2500 with the 5. 9L engine Sunday evening with anti-freeze all over the engine compartment. Mileage is 91,800. Fortunately we got it off the main road and had to have it towed. At the time we thought it was a heater hose but not so. Once the shop got it apart we found it totally shot with vans missing and square instead of round bearings. If it was going to give any warning we sure missed it. The truck has been fully serviced at a Dodge dealer as scheduled.



Questions are:

Is 91,000 unusual for a water pump to go?



Should I be worried about the missing vane parts? We looked and used a magnet to fish for parts.



Does Cummins have any coverage on the water pump?





Thanks,



Mike Ritchey

 

[HOBrian]

The engine has 100k warr. It should be covered. Did you notice any hotter temps recently? I can't imagine that some of the vanes are missing.

 

[mwilson]

Did it have this style pump???



This type of pump might make a tech think that vanes were missing if they had never encountered this version before.



Mike.

 

[Prairie Dog]

You should be really happy you have a Cummins and not the DuraMax or Ford Diesels. They both take MANY hours (or all day) to change the WP but your Cummins should only take about an hour.

 

[MichaelRitchey]

I will go look at the pump at the shop. I do not recall any cap on it but the pump was in many pieces with broken vanes and squared off ball bearings falling out of the shaft area.



Who do I contact about the pump cost? Cummins or my Dodge dealer?



Mike

 

[mwilson]

Your Dodge Dealer.



Cummins can't help you with the 100,000 mile warranty if the engine was built for a Dodge application.



Take the failed pump in with you, also make sure that your truck's VIN and mileage at time of failure show on the shop's repair order.



Did you have it changed at a Cummins facility or at an independant repair shop???



Expect to only recieve the flat rate labor and the Dodge parts pricing for the water pump repair.



I base the above on my experience with heavy truck and engine warranties, I am not 100% sure how Dodge will handle your situation.





Mike.

 

[LNaugle]

I have found people topping off their trucks with green coolant and seems like not long after that the bearing in the water pump goes out... i have found the leak to be at the heater hose that is between the turbo and the block. never a real big leak and just enough for the exhaust to dissipate it before it hits the ground.

 

[WoodChuck]

My truck has 210k, the oem pump started leaking at 139k and it was replaced with a NAPA Chinese pump which I had to repalce last weekend with only 71k miles.

 

[MichaelRitchey]

It get murkier. I took the unit to Cummins Northwest here in Renton, WA and the parts guys said it is not a Cummins part number on the unit. Closer examination finds that it is made by Concentric USA, a supplier of pumps to Cummins. I am going to take the unit to Lithia Dodge in Renton and see what we can do. It is curious that the pump is made by a Six Sigma supplier to Cummins. Cummins sells the pump for $160 and the dealer charged the shop $240. 00 Hopefully the image came across.





Appreciate all the replies...



Mike R

 

[mwilson]

It get murkier. I took the unit to Cummins Northwest here in Renton, WA and the parts guys said it is not a Cummins part number on the unit. Closer examination finds that it is made by Concentric USA, a supplier of pumps to Cummins. I am going to take the unit to Lithia Dodge in Renton and see what we can do. It is curious that the pump is made by a Six Sigma supplier to Cummins. Cummins sells the pump for $160 and the dealer charged the shop $240. 00 Hopefully the image came across.





Appreciate all the replies...



Mike R

Holy carnage, Batman... .....



I'm with you, where is all of that steel?????



Mike.

 

[GCroyle]

Thats pretty bad if it can impress Mike, he has seen a lot I bet.



Just curious, are you the original owner of the truck?



And for TDR, where is the most likely spot for the shrapnel to accumulate at? Bottom water jacket in block, radiator, or even heater core?



Good luck.

 

[MichaelRitchey]

We bought the truck with 58K miles on in January 2009 from a dealer who had taken it in trade. The orginal owner was a county mountie and used it as his commute vehicle to the precinct. CarFax was clean with no items other than regular maintenance at the Dodge dealer in Snohomish. We got it as the second owner and have taken it from Seattle to San Diego and 6,300 miles from the ferry dock in Haines AK back to Renton. As for the shrapnel we are missing the part of one blade. We pulled the thermostate to be sure the piece had no lodged there. We have all the rest of the parts. I drove the truck on Saturday and number one son pulled a quad trailer on Sunday and it came apart two miles from the house. There was no warning that we recognized.



Go figure!



Mike R

 

[Prairie Dog]

So does it look like the bearing is worn out and the blade hit the block?

 

[MichaelRitchey]

Yes, the bearing wore out and the blades pounded out of the block. Amazing that there were just scratch marks on the block.



Mike

 

[GCroyle]

Mike,



Hopefully you'll get this resolved or at least understood and move forward, and I am not claiming water pump expertise, but I'm game to make a possible explanation observation.



In the industry that I do know a little bit about suppliers to the assembly line I bet they all have to identify the part clearly and per the customers print requirements, no problem. But that same OEM supplier I don't think they are allowed to supply that same part in the After Market (fill in part supplier name here) marked with the same OEM markings, they might put their part number on it and that is all well and proper.



Pretty sure we'll get some additional comments, pay attention to Mike Wilson.

 

[HOBrian]

That's one FUBAR'd water pump!!!

 

[MichaelRitchey]

The mystery deepens. I went to Lithia Dodge in Renton this AM and took the mangled water pump with me and their consensus was "It is not a MOPAR part". No id at all on it as to MOPAR. Same thing the Cummins guys said "It is not a Cummins part" as there is no OEM markings. As no one claims to have spawned the part there is NO warranty.



I have placed a call to the tech support at Concentric to see if they can tell me any info as to lineage.



More to follow but it could be a few days into next week as the tech support is only there from 8-1 M-F central time.



The Dodge seems to be fine and is off on a 200 mile weekend trip pulling the quad trailer.



Mike

 

[GSchneuer]

Water Pump Replacement:

I just bought a new water pump from Cummins, P/N 2881805, origin US, mfg. 5/5/11 with No shroud covering the blades. It was mfg. for Cummins by Concentric USA so stamped on the mounting flange.



This pump will replace the second bad bearing NAPA pump, anti-freeze is getting too expensive to replace there pumps every year as they do not reimberse you for the anti-freeze when you replace there pumps under warrenty.



Info Only,

Gary

 

[mwilson]

The mystery deepens. I went to Lithia Dodge in Renton this AM and took the mangled water pump with me and their consensus was "It is not a MOPAR part". No id at all on it as to MOPAR. Same thing the Cummins guys said "It is not a Cummins part" as there is no OEM markings. As no one claims to have spawned the part there is NO warranty.



I have placed a call to the tech support at Concentric to see if they can tell me any info as to lineage.



More to follow but it could be a few days into next week as the tech support is only there from 8-1 M-F central time.



The Dodge seems to be fine and is off on a 200 mile weekend trip pulling the quad trailer.



Mike

Mike,

I had the flu yesterday, came to work but typing was even an effort.....



Are there any numbers on it at all??? Cummins is anal as a rule about having a part number stamped on their parts.

This Concentric may be a valid vendor, maybe they were not required to stamp the castings for whatever reason.



I am having a hard time believing that a water pump that might have been changed previous to your ownership at 50,000 miles or less would not have been a Cummins or Mopar pump. It simply doesn't make sense.



Just went and pulled a 3286278 "B" series water pump off of the shelf. Sealed Cummins box.

Opened it and it has a Concentric marking on it and no Cummins part number that relates to the part on the box. There is a casting number on the body and a Cummins part number stamped on the pulley itself which again has nothing to do with it's actual part number.

I call Bull**** on this one.

Print my pictures and lug them back to Mopar, Concentric is a Cummins part and/or an approved vendor from what I see.



They are welcome to call me if they want to. 1-800-432-7936. Ext. 121



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Concentric

Read the sixth and also the last paragraph of the blurb attached... They are a valid OEM supplier.



Mopar needs to stop the denial and take care of you. It is a Cummins pump, no question.



Concentric: Diesel engine application, diesel engine oil pumps, diesel engine water pumps, diesel engine fuel transfer pumps, diesel engine components, diesel engine systems, transmission pumps, compressor pumps



Mike.