Weight limits and licensing requirements

[JCasper]

I have some questions here and was hoping to get some straight up answers.



My company has a new 08 5500 with a 14' Flatbed. The truck has a 19,500GVW. Say we have that truck at that limit and hook a trailer to it. The trailer weighs another 12,000 or so loaded.



With that I am now at 30,000lbs or a bit more.



The truck doesn't have any company names on it and sees the freeway very little, but there are rare circumstances when we may have to run down the freeway to California and don't want to get in trouble.



Being that I am over 26K I have to stop at scales, right? Am I also required to have a CDL? What about logbooks?



Now if this is a big hassle, what if I were to just hook a 12,000lb trailer to my pickup and do the same thing. How is that different?



TIA for all your help

 

[FFeiller]

i am going through the process right now. spent a portion today at the scales going over the rules with guys at the check point.



the fact you are from another state does not exempt you from the california laws. (i have a construction business in NM and was interested in that issue). two if you pull a trialer over 10,000 pounds for hire (means you put your tools or anything in it that adds up to income you are required to have a class A (in CA) CDL license whether pickup or flatbed.



if you have a 5500 and put a pickup bed on it you will be treated as if it were a flatbed.



in CA you are require to have a CA number on truck and a DOT fuel. you are required to have a log book and even though my truck is also my daily driver, i have to maintain the log noting personal time and miles.

you wouldn't have a CA number, but you will be required to stop at the weigh stations.



they primarily use the weight rating of the tires to determine if you are overloaded. however, they have the option to use the mfg or upfitter's gcwr to determine if you are overloaded or not.



i was handed a packet of forms to fill out, (unfortunately I have a home here in CA also)



the check point i went to for information (they would be the closest one to me to cite me) and they are checking mud flaps. in fact they are starting to go after pickup trucks with lift kits that do not have mud flaps.



i left there depressed.



you will find people all over the forums that violate the rules and brag about it. it's your license and your dollar not theirs. you may want to give the CA authorities a call and discuss what they require of you so you wont get bounced around with all of the erronous info.

 

[HBarlow]

CA, like in all things, is the biggest pain, but all of the details mentioned above are nationwide DOT rules. The states sign on and enforce the same basic rules but CA takes it farther because the state government is run by socialist do-gooders. All the DOT rules apply in OR also and OR has strict enforcement.

The 5500 and trailer combo will put you into Class A CDL territory and all rules apply. Log book, 70hr/11hr driving limits, driver's physical and medical card in your possession, DOT numbers and company name displayed on both sides of the truck, triangle reflectors carried, fire extinguisher installed (not carried loose), commercial vehicle inspection decal on the windshield, vehicle registration and $1M single limit liability insurance card documents handy and ready to present, everything properly chained or strapped down, mud flaps, safety chains crossed under the trailer tongue, safety breakaway lanyard attached to a permanent mounting point, not draped over the tow ball, vehicle inspection sticker on the trailer, proper DOT lighting on both vehicles, no lamps out, good tires, good trailer brakes with brake controller, clean windshield, good wiper blades, no windshield cracks in the driver's line of vision, no dark window tint film applied, and more. Driver cannot sleep in the backseat, must stop on all scales, etc. I've been off the road over a year and have forgotten some of the rules already.

Best advice I can offer is pay a visit to your local DMV office and obtain a commercial driver's handbook, read it carefully with your boss, discuss and get questions answered by a DOT officer, and COMPLY.

As FFeiller wrote above, all the internet forums are populated by guys with diesel pickups who are self-proclaimed professional truckers who think they are experts, practice none of the rules, and think they know all the ingenious ways to skirt the rules and get away with it. They often do get away with it for a trip or two or if they stay on the backroads and try to remain invisible but I've talked to a few of them in truck stops who had the stack of tickets to prove they were wrong and it was funny to listen to them whine. A DOT officer will chase you down if you run a scale. If a DOT officer catches you with the 5500 rig not in compliance he'll write you a big stack of tickets and put you "out of service" for at least 10 hours. After 10 hours has passed, depending on cited violations he may allow you to drive away with the truck but the trailer will sit there until a Class A CDL driver with all the requirements met shows up to take the trailer back to OR. Fines can be severe.

The distinction is 26,000 lbs. gross combined weight or gross combined weight RATING. If you use the pickup and trailer combo and the total gross weights or gross weight ratings do not exceed 26,000 lbs. you won't require a Class A CDL in other states but all the above rules still apply. In CA any flat bed or truck larger than a pickup must stop at all scales. A DOT officer will add the total of the truck's GVWR limit from the driver's door post decal AND the GVWR tag on the trailer or can scale weigh the vehicles, whichever is greater.

 

[DonTX]

Good post HBarlow, you nailed it well.

CA, like in all things, is the biggest pain, but all of the details mentioned above are nationwide DOT rules. The states sign on and enforce the same basic rules but CA takes it farther because the state government is run by socialist do-gooders. All the DOT rules apply in OR also and OR has strict enforcement.



The 5500 and trailer combo will put you into Class A CDL territory and all rules apply. Log book, 70hr/11hr driving limits, driver's physical and medical card in your possession, DOT numbers and company name displayed on both sides of the truck, triangle reflectors carried, fire extinguisher installed (not carried loose), commercial vehicle inspection decal on the windshield, vehicle registration and $1M single limit liability insurance card documents handy and ready to present, everything properly chained or strapped down, mud flaps, safety chains crossed under the trailer tongue, safety breakaway lanyard attached to a permanent mounting point, not draped over the tow ball, vehicle inspection sticker on the trailer, proper DOT lighting on both vehicles, no lamps out, good tires, good trailer brakes with brake controller, clean windshield, good wiper blades, no windshield cracks in the driver's line of vision, no dark window tint film applied, and more. Driver cannot sleep in the backseat, must stop on all scales, etc. I've been off the road over a year and have forgotten some of the rules already.



Best advice I can offer is pay a visit to your local DMV office and obtain a commercial driver's handbook, read it carefully with your boss, discuss and get questions answered by a DOT officer, and COMPLY.



As FFeiller wrote above, all the internet forums are populated by guys with diesel pickups who are self-proclaimed professional truckers who think they are experts, practice none of the rules, and think they know all the ingenious ways to skirt the rules and get away with it. They often do get away with it for a trip or two or if they stay on the backroads and try to remain invisible but I've talked to a few of them in truck stops who had the stack of tickets to prove they were wrong and it was funny to listen to them whine. A DOT officer will chase you down if you run a scale. If a DOT officer catches you with the 5500 rig not in compliance he'll write you a big stack of tickets and put you "out of service" for at least 10 hours. After 10 hours has passed, depending on cited violations he may allow you to drive away with the truck but the trailer will sit there until a Class A CDL driver with all the requirements met shows up to take the trailer back to OR. Fines can be severe.



The distinction is 26,000 lbs. gross combined weight or gross combined weight RATING. If you use the pickup and trailer combo and the total gross weights or gross weight ratings do not exceed 26,000 lbs. you won't require a Class A CDL in other states but all the above rules still apply. In CA any flat bed or truck larger than a pickup must stop at all scales. A DOT officer will add the total of the truck's GVWR limit from the driver's door post decal AND the GVWR tag on the trailer or can scale weigh the vehicles, whichever is greater.

 

[EGroeneveld]

I live down in Keizer, OR and am a Partner in a CPA firm in Salem, OR.



I have had two construction related clients in the past year get an ODOT audit and they were both nailed for $ 15,000 and $ 20,000 in fines for doing what you are doing. They were running around with F450, F550 and F-600 hauling trailers over 10,000, without the drivers being CDL'd. They were also using non 'T' plated pickups to haul "Perm" plated trailers over 10,000 pounds. Both Audits started by passing a weigh station without stopping. I believe the drivers that got pulled over also got $ 1,000++ tickets too.



Not having company info on a 5500 flatbed hauling a trailer would mean nothing to ODOT. You would have a hard time convincing anyone they are not commercial.



Just a warning, but you are gambling.



Now this is 100% personal use but I have 'T' (for <26,000) plates on my 3500 Dually and also my Excursion because I have 3 personal use trailers that are 'Perm' Plated and over 10,000 rated. (a 14K dump trailer, a 14K flatbed gooseneck trailer, and a 10. 5k enclosed trailer.



RV's seem to be excempt from all the rules.

 

[JCasper]

Thanks for all the info guys.



I will look into the CDL requirements and licensing when I get time, hopefully in the next couple of weeks

 

[HBarlow]

I live down in Keizer, OR and am a Partner in a CPA firm in Salem, OR.

I have had two construction related clients in the past year get an ODOT audit and they were both nailed for $ 15,000 and $ 20,000 in fines for doing what you are doing. They were running around with F450, F550 and F-600 hauling trailers over 10,000, without the drivers being CDL'd. They were also using non 'T' plated pickups to haul "Perm" plated trailers over 10,000 pounds. Both Audits started by passing a weigh station without stopping. I believe the drivers that got pulled over also got $ 1,000++ tickets too.

Not having company info on a 5500 flatbed hauling a trailer would mean nothing to ODOT. You would have a hard time convincing anyone they are not commercial.

Just a warning, but you are gambling.

Now this is 100% personal use but I have 'T' (for <26,000) plates on my 3500 Dually and also my Excursion because I have 3 personal use trailers that are 'Perm' Plated and over 10,000 rated. (a 14K dump trailer, a 14K flatbed gooseneck trailer, and a 10. 5k enclosed trailer.

RV's seem to be excempt from all the rules.

That's excellent information that fellow TDR members need to read from a different source and point of view. Your advice was good and accurate.

I worked for a small, outlaw RV transport company for a year or two when I was transporting. They were laid back, easy going, good people, and fun to work for but had no clue about any of the rules and almost every thing they were doing was illegal. I tried to tell them repeatedly what would happen if a DOT officer drove in the driveway one day, flashed his badge, and commenced an audit. Finally, DOT scales around the country began to nail their drivers right and left and they realized their company was beginning to be noticed and targeted by DOT in the various states. They became willing to listen then and we created a basic compliance program.

As you explained, the penalties for ignoring the law can be severe. "I didn't know" won't work when a driver and company gets pulled over and inspected.