Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Welding the gear case

[Sleeper]

My local dealer "solved" my dowel pin excusion by welding up the case while on the block. Can he do that? Wouldn't that destroy the gasket under it? Is there any structural strength or alignment issues? I'm out of my depth here.



Phil

 

[illflem]

Was this done under warranty? If it was I wouldn't go for it. If you had to pay and it doesn't leak, why not, some folks have used epoxy when the case is just cracked but not broken out. Aluminum can be welded without getting it extremely hot but transfers heat extremely well. I hope that they removed the cover and replaced the pin in a manner that it won't come out again, I'd find out. Don't let them try to tell you the pin is just there for assembly and isn't needed, it just isn't true. The two dowel pins (the other can't come out) are there to keep the case aligned, if one is missing bearing and seal damage can occur plus your timing can shift.

 

[Sleeper]

Yes, it's being done under warranty. The key words are replace or repair at our discretion. If it were up to me Piers would have fixed it by now.



Phil

 

[illflem]

Phil, most dealers will send out a big job like case replacement to Cummins. Sounds as though your dealer has found a way around this. I'm 99% sure that Cummins wouldn't approve of welding it. My thought is that your dealer has a pretty sharp mechanic but he doesn't know Cummins engines well. I always thought DC reimbursed the dealer for warranty work, don't know why they would want to save a dime on a non-approved repair. If your frame cracked under warranty would you let them weld it even if would be just as strong or make them replace it? The choice is clear if they're the ones paying but not if you are.

 

[Sleeper]

I specifically asked if they would contract it out. They said no. Actually, I first asked if I could get done at PDR; no; how about the local Cummins dealer; no, they don't warranty the engine, DC does. The local DC Service Rep approved this method. Do I have any guarantee this will work? Don't know. We'll see.



Phil

 

[ata]

Sleeper, If it was me when I got the truck back I would pull the dip stick out and drip Engine Oil behind the belt idler where it was welded. Make it look like it`s leaking take it back and complain of engine oil leak AND KEEP DOING IT AND TAKING IT BACK and get a copy of the work order each time. The reason I said use the dip stick oil is in case they put DYE in your oil. My feeling about this is they are really *#@!*&% you. This is not a permanent fix but a bad patch job.

 

[Philip]

Go back to the dealer and tell them you want to talk to the regional rep. Just tell the local rep you do not think the repair is good enough. You did not buy the truck with a welded case. You sould not have to accept one from warranty work. If the Regional rep says this is a valid fix. Tell him you want to see this in writing from Cummins and Dodge. Also make sure it is noted on the service order what they did to the case.



Then last but not least. Tell them any future sales of a vehicle to you might not happen if this is not settled to your satisfaction.



Hope you get it straightened out.

 

[drees1]

Phil, they are jacking you around

Phil,



I've seen enough and repaired enough welded covers, oil pans, and gear cases on CAT truck engines to know it will not last. It will be structurally weaker in the heat effected zone of the weld. And the cooling of the weld with it constricted by being bolted up will just induce stress in the cover. It will crack again. Further, there is not enough clearance between the gearcase and the gears or the idler to allow for additional build up to reinforce it.



Dig in your heels and DO NOT ACCEPT their fix, (unless your truck is for sale now)



I half expect the dealer will file for full gearcase cover time and materials from Dodge and reap the difference in profit. I smell a rat here. If they file their claim with Dodge quickly you may take it to another dealer and see if they can pull up a history based on your serial number. It would not surprise me if it said gearcase replaced.



Good Luck, and don't be afraid to get mad if you have to.



Doug Rees

 

[Sleeper]

The dealer promised that this was the fix as recommended by the DC Rep. I have to admit the service manager didn't seem all that confident. I may just let it ride for a bit as I need the truck for a run up to Calgary next weekend. By then I should have a better idea on what is kosher or not.



In some ways, I almost wish they had denied my claim. I would have had it at PDR in a flash.



Phil

 

[Blakers]

Are you talking about the dealer fixing damage created by a pin that came out? Or fixing the pin so it can't come out?



Personally, I would have no problem with a welded up case if it was done properly. If they welded it slowly and a little at a time, allowing the heat to dissipate, I doubt there would be any harm to the gasket.



Blake

 

[Philip]

I haven't seen very many welded cases/covers hold eather. Most of the time I have seen the cracks reappear right beside the weld. Or the crack just keeps runing from the end of a weld.



Blakers if the case was cracked it looked like it came out and went threw the gears.

If they file their claim with Dodge quickly you may take it to another dealer and see if they can pull up a history based on your serial number. It would not surprise me if it said gearcase replaced.

Good idea drees1

 

[Sleeper]

Does anyone have a parts manual? The parts they list are:



4638719 Gasket - G

5012290AA Seal-Rear

VU021222 $1L 15 W40



The work code is:



09101601 Replace Rear Housing Gasket



When I asked about "Seal-Rear", the Service manager said that was obviously wrong and wrote over top: "Re & Re timing cover to repair cracked Hsng. Where is the pin? new or old?



Thnk I'll get an old change.



There was no charge for any of this. Note that by the time I actually brought it in, my mileage was over the 160,000 KM and I am moderately fuelled (#11 plate and 16 cm turbo).



If this was a power related failure, I accept that I am my own warranty station. However is the KPD related to fuelling or a poor design?



Phil

 

[Philip]

The KDP is caused by too loose of a fit in the case. Eather the pin is under size. Or the hole is oversize. Some one wasn't watching or checking the spec's. So a lot of engines got released with a poor fit on a press in pin. That just happens to be inside an area with a lot of gears.



Fueling or power level has nothing to do with it.

 

[RJ2]

How does the weld look? They could be talking JB Weld.

 

[Sleeper]

I don't know. By the time I got there, it was all buttoned up.



Phil

 

[Blakers]

My cousin fixed his with JB Weld. I suggested having it mig welded, but he was in a hurry. If properly welded it would be as good as new.



Blake

 

[RJ2]

They could have done it from the outside and left the pin in there . Did they show you the pin or say they found it.

 

[Sleeper]

I asked these questions of the service manager:



From: "Winch" <winch@shaw. ca>

To: <service@whiterockchrysler.com>

Subject: Winch - Cummins Repair

Date: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:24 PM



"Chris, some of my TDR friends have asked me questions I don't know the

answers to. Can you confirm some details from either Dave or Brian?



Was the gear cast welded or gap filled with liquid JB Weld?



TWere was the old dowel pin found? Bottom of the gear case or in the pan?



Confirm a new dowel pin was fitted and installed with locktite (there is no

mention of it in the parts) or was a tab used to secure it.



There were no chips or metal bits in the oil requiring a oil change.



Thanks,

Phil"



This is the answer I got back:



"From: "Chris Rose" <servicewhiterockchrysler@telus.net>

To: "'Winch'" <winch@shaw. ca>

Subject: RE: Winch - Cummins Repair

Date: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 4:12 PM



Mr. Winch,

In response to your e-mail:



1. JB weld was used.

2. Dowel pin was not recovered. Whoever does your oil changes will probably

find it in the pan.

3. Brian says the dowel pin is only used to hold things in place before

assembly and it is not required any longer.

4. He says that he saw no debris in your oil so the pin passed thru intact.





Chris"





I guess I'll be talking with DC.

 

[illflem]

So I guess under warranty it's ok to patch a leak caused by a manufacturing defect in your fuel tank with J-B Weld. I would be extremely upset. I wouldn't be surprised that any other dealer that you take the truck to would agree the repair was bogus. I know Cummins would. What's next, repairing frayed throttle cables with Scotch tape?

 

[RJ2]

I would look close at the outside of the case to see

if it has been globbed on. There is probaly a good chance,

considering the feedback, they sprayed some brake fluid on it and didn't even split the case off. I have read posts that explained why the pin did need to be in there to keep it indexed. The bolts do not have tolerance like the pins. Cummins said they find one of the bolts in there loose

quite often. That was my motivating factor to do the tab instead of the fix. I had them redo all the bolts except the one that is covered up. It might be a good idea to do a search on the posts.