2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Well fuel is headed towards $5

[Harlacher]

It is not the oil companies, sure they make a profit, a fair one. The government putting all the restrictions and hoops for them to jump through is where the cost is. That and the fact that half of each dollar spent on fuel goes back to the Government in the form of federal, state or local taxes. We are paying these ridiculous prices because our representatives need money for their re-election slush fund. They have not allowed the building of a new refinery in the US in over 20 years. China can drill off our coast but we can't. The list goes on and on.



They feel like it is OK for them to manipulate us through higher prices so we drive, smoke, drink what they think we should. That is the main reason diesel is higher than gas, not supply and demand. Our representatives want us out of our trucks and into Honda civics. Global warming, emissions my @$$, they are so much smarter than we are. They will ruin our life style because they disagree with it, pure and simple.

 

[macdaddy]

It is not the oil companies, sure they make a profit, a fair one. The government putting all the restrictions and hoops for them to jump through is where the cost is. That and the fact that half of each dollar spent on fuel goes back to the Government in the form of federal, state or local taxes. We are paying these ridiculous prices because our representatives need money for their re-election slush fund. They have not allowed the building of a new refinery in the US in over 20 years. China can drill off our coast but we can't. The list goes on and on.



They feel like it is OK for them to manipulate us through higher prices so we drive, smoke, drink what they think we should. That is the main reason diesel is higher than gas, not supply and demand. Our representatives want us out of our trucks and into Honda civics. Global warming, emissions my @$$, they are so much smarter than we are. They will ruin our life style because they disagree with it, pure and simple.

Excellent post!!!!!!



I especially like the part about the Govt not allowing any new refineries in over 20 years.



There are 13 refineries in California. We are recieving both finished gasoline, and raw blend stocks for making Gasoline, Jet and Diesel from China. China and India are building new refineries for the future gasoline,jet and diesel markets of america thanks to our liberal politicians. :-{}



Refineries give off green house gases. Correct me if im wrong here but... ...



Dont we breath the same air they do?



Mac

 

[HBarlow]

It is not the oil companies, sure they make a profit, a fair one. The government putting all the restrictions and hoops for them to jump through is where the cost is. That and the fact that half of each dollar spent on fuel goes back to the Government in the form of federal, state or local taxes. We are paying these ridiculous prices because our representatives need money for their re-election slush fund. They have not allowed the building of a new refinery in the US in over 20 years. China can drill off our coast but we can't. The list goes on and on.

They feel like it is OK for them to manipulate us through higher prices so we drive, smoke, drink what they think we should. That is the main reason diesel is higher than gas, not supply and demand. Our representatives want us out of our trucks and into Honda civics. Global warming, emissions my @$$, they are so much smarter than we are. They will ruin our life style because they disagree with it, pure and simple.

Yep. I agree with every word you wrote!

It's the gasses emitted by lying, conniving politicians I don't want to breathe, not the so-called greenhouse gasses they pontificate about.

 

[Sticks]

Excellent post!!!!!!



I especially like the part about the Govt not allowing any new refineries in over 20 years.



There are 13 refineries in California. We are recieving both finished gasoline, and raw blend stocks for making Gasoline, Jet and Diesel from China. China and India are building new refineries for the future gasoline,jet and diesel markets of america thanks to our liberal politicians. :-{}



Refineries give off green house gases. Correct me if im wrong here but... ...



Dont we breath the same air they do?



Mac

Yep, and Cali is the source of all that is evil in the terms of emission control. If it happens in Cali, then it spreads like cancer to the rest of the country.



Yet, for what ever reason... nobody seems to notice that the prevailing winds & jet stream comes across the Pacific from... Asia. And with that, a fair chunk of their pollution.



I've attended a number of classes for work that revolved around the tier 3 emission requirements for Diesels, and always take a shot at the representatives from Cali that say

"We have emission systems built for Diesels that the gasses coming out of the exhaust is cleaner than that of the air going in. "

To which I respond

"Then why don't you just leave a bunch of them running all the time to clean up your air, and get off our backs. "

IMO - Big oil is still the source of a great many problems in this country. The EU has, and has had for a long time, vehicles both gas and diesel that exceed our emission requirements, have plenty of power, and get waaaaay over our MPG averages. We for some reason can not import them, and the Big 3 auto manufacturers won't step up and build it. Pockets across the board (companies and politicians) are lined with Big oil $$$ to keep the status quo.



I can understand why Executives deserve a larger salary and bonus at the end of the quarter/year, but 7-8 figures... each?!? That is obscene.



When a single oil company posts a quarterly profit of $14 billion, you can't tell me that they are not fudging the conditions, and are certainly making more than chump change at the pump.



A rumor of a problem in the middle east instantly raises the cost at the pump. But when the cost per barrel of crude drops, the pump stays the same for some reason. Tell me again that Big oil is not fudging things.



Yeah, get the Govt in and regulate them. No other business or market in the country has the Execs getting together in the same room to discuss prices. Skirting that "Monopoly" rule.





... Next... .

 

[RustyJC]

IMO - Big oil is still the source of a great many problems in this country. The EU has, and has had for a long time, vehicles both gas and diesel that exceed our emission requirements, have plenty of power, and get waaaaay over our MPG averages. We for some reason can not import them, and the Big 3 auto manufacturers won't step up and build it. Pockets across the board (companies and politicians) are lined with Big oil $$$ to keep the status quo.



I can understand why Executives deserve a larger salary and bonus at the end of the quarter/year, but 7-8 figures... each?!? That is obscene.



When a single oil company posts a quarterly profit of $14 billion, you can't tell me that they are not fudging the conditions, and are certainly making more than chump change at the pump.

You're firing at the wrong target. The difference in emissions regulations between the U. S. and Europe isn't because of the oil companies. Rather, it's because of a fundamental difference in approach between the government regulators.



European emissions regulations target greenhouse gases, especially CO2 (carbon dioxide). The amount of CO2 produced by an engine is a direct result of the amount of hydrocarbon fuel consumed, so a more efficient, economical engine (think diesel) naturally produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions than a less efficient engine.



U. S. emissions regulations primarily target NOx as a precursor gas of smog. The most efficient engines produce higher levels of NOx as NOx formation is combustion time and temperature dependent - the higher the combustion temperature and the longer combustion lasts, the more NOx is formed. Thus, the highly efficient European engines are deemed "bad actors" in the U. S. because they're more prone to NOx formation than our low compression, retarded timing, EGRed U. S. engines (all of which are intended to reduce combustion temperatures and, therefore, efficiencies as well. )



Blame your friendly EPA blokes for shooting at the wrong targets if you like - the oil companies really don't have anything to do with this one.



Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

Great idea. We could have the government regulate the oil companies and give us efficiency like a Kalifornia DMV office, the US Postal Service, government health care, or name any industry or program regulated by the government.

Anyone who has ever visited Europe would understand that motor vehicles that work well in their small countries where they travel short distances at lower speeds would not be very appropriate for American needs.

If you prefer the small fuel efficient vehicles of Europe you could trade your Cummins powered Ram for a tiny four cylinder fuel sipper. Lots of them with Japanese or Korean names are either imported or built in America to the Asian standards.

 

[macdaddy]

You're firing at the wrong target. The difference in emissions regulations between the U. S. and Europe isn't because of the oil companies. Rather, it's because of a fundamental difference in approach between the government regulators.



European emissions regulations target greenhouse gases, especially CO2 (carbon dioxide). The amount of CO2 produced by an engine is a direct result of the amount of hydrocarbon fuel consumed, so a more efficient, economical engine (think diesel) naturally produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions than a less efficient engine.



U. S. emissions regulations primarily target NOx as a precursor gas of smog. The most efficient engines produce higher levels of NOx as NOx formation is combustion time and temperature dependent - the higher the combustion temperature and the longer combustion lasts, the more NOx is formed. Thus, the highly efficient European engines are deemed "bad actors" in the U. S. because they're more prone to NOx formation than our low compression, retarded timing, EGRed U. S. engines (all of which are intended to reduce combustion temperatures and, therefore, efficiencies as well. )



Blame your friendly EPA blokes for shooting at the wrong targets if you like - the oil companies really don't have anything to do with this one.



Rusty

This is a very good post. I wasnt going to start getting into the differences between the U. S and Europe, but since you did I appreciate it.



People are so hell bent on blaming big oil with out knowing what the real deal is. The oil industry is a HUGE industry with HUGE profits agreed. But.....



They also have a HUGE overhead to pay for, and a large percentage of those profits are invested back into such things as (believe it or not) alternative energy, oil exploration etc.



Right now in downstream operations (refining) the profits are so bad that if the demand doesnt pick up soon and regional crack spreads improve (oil prices for crude come down), you will start to see refineries shuttered or or removed from service for good, allowing more finished Gas, Jet, and Diesel to be imported from China, and India.



The Govt cannot stop this and it will happen. Big Oil (the majors) are already looking at doing this. And why should'nt they we have the highest corporate tax in the world. Not to mention China/India wants our business.



Liberal politics dictates this... .





Mac

 

[Road Dog]

European emissions regulations target greenhouse gases, especially CO2 (carbon dioxide). The amount of CO2 produced by an engine is a direct result of the amount of hydrocarbon fuel consumed, so a more efficient, economical engine (think diesel) naturally produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions than a less efficient engine.

They say that now but most European countries import 100% of their oil and reducing foreign oil dependence was important for national security. Plus with prevailing winds all the smog was blown into Eastern Europe which was a bonus.

 

[Jim Brewer]

People are so hell bent on blaming big oil with out knowing what the real deal is. The oil industry is a HUGE industry with HUGE profits agreed. But.....



They also have a HUGE overhead to pay for, and a large percentage of those profits are invested back into such things as (believe it or not) alternative energy, oil exploration etc.

It seems the "big oil/wall street/government" conspiracy zealots forget how large these companies/institutions really are. What puzzles me is somehow the same government that can't pass a budget on time or run a mail service is able to covertly coordinate worldwide petroleum, financial, and regulatory institutions to the detriment of US citizens. #ad

Right now in downstream operations (refining) the profits are so bad that if the demand doesnt pick up soon and regional crack spreads improve (oil prices for crude come down), you will start to see refineries shuttered or or removed from service for good, allowing more finished Gas, Jet, and Diesel to be imported from China, and India.

I had to go look up crack spread . . very interesting reading . . here are a couple of links

Crack spread - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Derivatives and Risk Management in the Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Electricity Industries

 

[CBlack]

How can the oil majors, which don't own even half of the refineries in the U. S. , dictate the price of gasoline?

Answer: They can not.

Just as they can not dictate the price of crude.

 

[HBarlow]

It is much easier for those who can't spell basic economics to blame "big oil" or "Wall Street" or "speculators" than to actually open their dim brains and try to understand what really drives the price of gasoline, diesel fuel, and other petroleum products.

Everyone who criticizes big oil companies thinks personal greed, demanding higher wages or higher profits for themselves, is completely acceptable but thinks oil companies should provide motor fuels at cost as a charitable service.

It is a waste of time trying to explain it to them.

 

[macdaddy]

It seems the "big oil/wall street/government" conspiracy zealots forget how large these companies/institutions really are. What puzzles me is somehow the same government that can't pass a budget on time or run a mail service is able to covertly coordinate worldwide petroleum, financial, and regulatory institutions to the detriment of US citizens. #ad




I had to go look up crack spread . . very interesting reading . . here are a couple of links

Crack spread - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Derivatives and Risk Management in the Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Electricity Industries

Thank You for taking the time to research it. I wish some other members would also do this.



Our industry is virtually under attack by the current presidential administration and his environmental lobby. If we dont get the nut case out of there soon our country and it's way of life will cease.



Without a sound energy policy our countries national security is compromised.



I guess Obama is cool with sending 700 billion annually overseas.



Mac

 

[Harlacher]

Thank You for taking the time to research it. I wish some other members would also do this.



Our industry is virtually under attack by the current presidential administration and his environmental lobby. If we dont get the nut case out of there soon our country and it's way of life will cease.



Without a sound energy policy our countries national security is compromised.



I guess Obama is cool with sending 700 billion annually overseas.



Mac

It is under attack, the current administration wants to take over and control the basic rules of economics. Supply and demand and Corporate America filling the needs and wants of the people take power away from them. What most American Citizens do not realize, as stated earlier in this thread, everyone who owns a 401k or some other form of stock is Corporate American. Our current officials are attacking us and what we want. Obama does not need Congress either he has his Czars that can set new policy to bend the rules to achieve their goals. We are in big trouble and I hope that Average Joe "gets it" before it is to late. The price of diesel fuel affects every item that is sold in the US today. We pay at the pump; and again along with the Honda Civic owners when we buy a loaf of bread.

 

[macdaddy]

It is under attack, the current administration wants to take over and control the basic rules of economics. Supply and demand and Corporate America filling the needs and wants of the people take power away from them. What most American Citizens do not realize, as stated earlier in this thread, everyone who owns a 401k or some other form of stock is Corporate American. Our current officials are attacking us and what we want. Obama does not need Congress either he has his Czars that can set new policy to bend the rules to achieve their goals. We are in big trouble and I hope that Average Joe "gets it" before it is to late. The price of diesel fuel affects every item that is sold in the US today. We pay at the pump; and again along with the Honda Civic owners when we buy a loaf of bread.

Good point.....



Your right in saying Obama doesnt need either chamber of the government to move forward with his agenda.



Look for the EPA to now move forward with climate legislation. I am happy the voters woke up last November. However it will only be gridlock between the house and senate. I feel it will take another two years of high unemployment and fuel prices before Americans really understand.



It's time to hammer out a energy policy which will allow us to be less dependent on foreign oil. Let start by using our own



Mac

 

[BIGNASTY]

This is a sad but funny thread. The original poster who opened this thread and several other posters who are complaining voted for exactly this result, they just didn't know it.



Remember that change you voted for? Now you're receiving it.

Receiving it is that the same as taking it in the kiester :-laf at the very least you would think Obama could give a reach around just to show he cares

 

[rrl989]

JMHO, but I always felt it's OPEC that sets the prices by setting production levels. They have the world by the jewels and unless we find other types of fuel, we're screwed whenever they decide, very sad.

 

[macdaddy]

JMHO, but I always felt it's OPEC that sets the prices by setting production levels. They have the world by the jewels and unless we find other types of fuel, we're screwed whenever they decide, very sad.

How about just using or own oil



There's plenty of it.



Mac

 

[Harlacher]

How about just using or own oil



There's plenty of it.



Mac

I agree, we could, with time, take OPEC right out of the picture. We have plenty of oil, we are not being allowed to use it because our wise fathers in DC think it is a dirty polluter; so we need to use the sun to run our cars. No one has come up with the technology yet but they figure if we all have to work we will find their solution faster.

 

[HBarlow]

The Washington elites, media propagandists, and limousine liberals don't plan to give up their jet aircraft travel, yachts, or big cars, they just want the rest of us to stay home and quit wasting fuel by traveling or use tiny electric cars with long extension cords.

 

[CBlack]

RIGZONE - Drilling Ban Is Off, But Work Is Stalled

Please note the first paragraph in particular.