What brand of oil should I use

[fortunate1]

Over the long haul...

There have been some "famous" Rams that have spun the odometer all the way to 1 million miles. I read of one in a TDR issue 1-2 yrs ago, and there are a couple listed on a hot-shot company's testimonial page. There are more with over 500K miles, judging by the signatures in posts I've read over the last few years. I have not personally documented any of these milage figures, but wouldn't it be interesting to find out what kind of oil these guys are/were using? If you're one of these High-Milage Ram owners, or know of one, how about posting here to let everyone else know!



I'm not going to post what I use since - A) it will differ from someone else's oil of choice, and they'll think that I'm attacking their character, intelligence, morality, integrity, patriotism, etc. OR B) I'll be accused of a wide-spread conspiracy to brainwash and otherwise persuade vulnerable flocks of impressionable sheep to side with me. Sooo, just the facts.



Phil

 

[klenger]

fortunate1



So, it looks like you use Amsoil too.

 

[Texas Diesel]

The "million mile Ram" several issues back in the TDR used Dino oil and Mopar filters.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Mopar and Cummins don't recommend extended oil drain intervals, partly because of the small sump on the Rams. Oil filters don't remove soot. I have removed the gear housing cover on several Rams that used extended oil drains and found a 1:1 correlation between heavy soot deposits plated out everywhere inside the gear case and those who believe in extended drain intervals. Regardless of the base stock of the oil, there will be only so much additive in it to suspend soot. Once that additive package is used up, the rest ends up plated out on all the internals. If you change your oil at least as often as Mopar recommends, I basically agree with Bill Fleming that you can use any good oil.



Oil analysis and a new filter costs pretty much the same as a complete oil change with good dino oil like Delo 400 ($33 for 6 gallons at Costco). The new oil gives you a complete new package of additives. I prefer Delo, but if someone gave me a few cases of Rotella or Castrol RX super, I'd sure rather use it than get 12 qt. of synthetic and have to use it for 10,000+ miles. Moreover, if I had a new Ram, I would be potentially voiding its engine warranty by failiing to follow Mopar guidance on change intervals.



How often do you flush the commode at home? You could save water by flushing weekly or monthly. Drain that oil and fill a second pan with new oil. Which would you rather pour into the engine?

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

Regardless of the base stock of the oil, there will be only so much additive in it to suspend soot. Once that additive package is used up, the rest ends up plated out on all the internals. If you change your oil at least as often as Mopar recommends

That seals it up for me.



I'll follow the "million mile Ram" and do regular dino oil and filter changes. At least until ONE of the 'other' crowd can duplicate the million mile track record.



Thanks for that informing post.

 

[Sled Puller]

Yep, million mile Ram followed factory drains using factory recommended oil and filters.



The bottom end was the only original part left.



He replaced the rest of the entire truck at least twice, for cryin out loud!!!!!



Cummins uses good steel.

 

[Texas Diesel]

From what I remember he said he never had the head off the engine.



Two trannies, 3 rear ends, two or three steering boxes (I've had 3 in 62k miles ) two injection pumps.

 

[Sled Puller]

There is I believe, over a million Cummins Rams out there now.



TDR is what? 18,000?



Kind of hard to track down different people/trucks, without a massive advertising campaign.

Especially now that some trucks have had half a dozen owners.

Anyone have any ideas how to track down high mileage trucks?



About soot, the proper filters do remove soot.



My first 100,000 miles, had the oil changed about 7 times. With one drain at 35,000 one year.

BOMBed at about 40,000 miles.



No By-pass, filters changed every 7500 miles, 5W-30.

Tore it down to go twins, and build it right.



There was no sign of soot build up at all. Engine was in excellent condition, very clean.



I have witnesses.



I'm not telling anyone to do what I did.



But extended drains can and are being applied to our trucks, with the proper filters, and oil, with excellent wear protection backed by stacks of samples, some from Blackstone.



Does anyone have any proof that these engines have failed using extended drains?

 

[zjones]

My truck runs delo 15w-40w - 170K hard miles not one problem

Dads truck (92 ctd) starts every morning with less than 1 crank revolution & runs every day, all day. (take hour or 2 off for lunch) His truck has 370K+ miles with who knows how many hours, it idles (in 10*- 115* weather) much more than driven. We just pulled the head off and everything is extremely clean (new head gasket).



The guys (Rudy's Fencing) that fenced our place had over 650K miles on three CTD running Delo & have had nothing done to them.



Met a guy in Stephenville cutting his goose neck (23' horse/cow trailer hitch had rusted on, it haden't been un-hitched for 4=years.

He also runs Delo & has 789,850 miles & said it doesn't have as much power as it used to. :--) He has never done anything to the motor, or injection pump. ( 95 model - he must drive!!)



I've also heard great things about Rotella.



These & more testimonies were enough for me.

 

[illflem]

Another testimonial

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q



NOW, stop for a moment, and ask yourself HOW MANY vehicles do you now have, or ever had that you kept that long or drove that far...

I've kept my '82 Toyota because I won't get anything if I sell it.

I know it's a gasser but 305k and the head hasn't ever been off, uses about half a quart between changes. And it's never had the factory recommended 10w -30 oil in it, 15w-40 Delo it's entire life. A few times I've neglected to change the oil till over 10k miles. On it's third set of driver's side door hinges.

Don't try this experiment at home but it worked for me...

 

[fortunate1]

From klenger:

So, it looks like you use Amsoil too

That is an incorrect answer, Corporal.

 

[Rman]

Re: Another testimonial

Originally posted by illflem

I've kept my '82 Toyota because I won't get anything if I sell it.

I know it's a gasser but 305k and the head hasn't ever been off, uses about half a quart between changes. And it's never had the factory recommended 10w -30 oil in it, 15w-40 Delo it's entire life. A few times I've neglected to change the oil till over 10k miles. On it's third set of driver's side door hinges.

Don't try this experiment at home but it worked for me...

I had an 86 mazda pickup that got me 310K, i never did anything to it. Changed the 10-30 valvoline oil a couple times a year, i really didn't count miles, that engine lasted longer then the body thats for sure. I think the alternator died on it, i did break a timing belt. I sold it a while to to some guy to use as a work truck, drove by his place the other day and he's still usin it. It did burn oil like a madman though, needed a valve job really bad.

 

[RustyJC]

Gee, I ought to have my head examined. Posting on an "oil war" thread... .



First, I'm not anti-synthetic. I use Mobil I in my 2003 Acura 3. 2TL-S and in the wife's 2000 Durango 360 gasser. I've used Mobil I in my gassers since my 1983 Volvo 245 Turbo wagon. It's a great product and I've never had a lubrication-related engine problem since using it. Heck, I even have Royal Purple synthetic 85W-140 in the rear axle of the 3500!



As far as engine oil for the Cummins goes, I use Delo 400 15W-40 and Fleetgard Stratopore oil filters with 3750 mile oil changes. Why no synthetic in the 3500? It all has to do with operating profile.



We use our 3500 almost exclusively to tow a 5th wheel. When towing, we're running 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 GCWR), so we work the engine pretty hard. Living near the Texas Gulf Coast, we don't see extremely cold temperatures, but we do have Texas summers to contend with.



Our truck will get used for a long weekend or maybe a week towing the 5ver, then it will sit in the garage until the next outing. We took delivery of the truck on August 15, 2001 and it has less than 12,000 miles on it. With this operating profile, (heavy use, then sitting idle for weeks), I choose to spend the money to use a quality dino oil and change it relatively frequently. The reason is that I don't care to have the truck sitting idle for extended periods with both weak combustion acids and stronger sulfuric and/or sulfurous acids in the oil pan. The TBN package in a quality diesel oil (dino or synthetic) will protect against these acids until the TBN package is depleted - the simplest and easiest way for me to protect the engine for my application is to use a quality dino oil and filters and to perform relatively frequent (based on mileage, not on calendar time) oil and filter changes.



Ya pays yore money and ya takes yore choice. Do what works best for your application.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

REALITY CHECK:



We'll NEVER see an end to oil discussions here, unless the administrator chooses to ban them, and *I* see no reason for that to occur, unless they get out of hand - oil is the lifeblood of our engines and various internal assemblies - HONEST and reasonably reserved exchanges of viewpoint CAN be helpful for the newcomers wanting the best balance of benefit vs expense for the trucks they paid good money for.



What we CAN demand and insist upon, is common decency, honesty and freedom from unnecessary personal attacks against the many who might not share our own personal opinion - OR the attitude that OUR position is the ONLY right one, and that any "intelligent person" should also adopt it as gospel...



THAT out of the way, I have (for the time being!) decided to stick with Delo 400 15/40 and the best Cummins filters available, combined with my Frantz bypass filter and regular oil change intervals. Due to our local climate, and the way our truck is used - for us, it strikes what I consider the best balance of performance, protection and cost - and as I suggested above, I'm 66 years old, and will probably continue to drive about 12,000 miles or so a year - so using what would be, for me, extreme and expensive measures to (possibly) extend the potential life of my truck's ENGINE far beyond my OWN life, seems sorta pointless...





"Ya pays yore money and ya takes yore choice. Do what works best for your application. "



YUP - and THAT is exactly the BEST we can hope these continuing oil debates help some to decide - one size does NOT fit all!

 

[JJW_ND]

Just some data....

While I agree that todays oils are great I disagree that todays Cummins (STOCK) engine produce soot or deplete TBN.



Why did DC agree with Cummins longer drain intervals on the 3G engines (15K) even with the same small drain capacity?





Past 12V and 24V have a soot "concern" level of about 1. 5% soot. The new 3G engines (EGT??) will up that to something like 3%. I doudt any stock truck will ever get to . 04% even if the oil change was extended out to 24K. I have sampled every 6K for over half a dozen 24K drain intervals (no bypass just Statapore filters) with the highest soot reading of . 04% in 225K miles. I have been over 300Hp for most of that. Hotshotted trailers for the fist 190K. If it was going to happen I should have seen it. I also seen the inside of my engine (under side cover area, cylinder walls, valve train area) after 220K . But then I expected things to be clean based on the samples and the the cost of the expensive oil!



TBNs are almost of waste to check as they hardly ever drop even out to 24K. If you start with 12 you might drop to 9 if you run over 20K on the same oil.



I use synthetics because of the cold temperature I have to drive in. I started using sythetics because it sucked changing oil evey three weeks and I hated how long it took to get oil pressure with -20 starts on 15W40 dino.



If you are stroken 350Hp + and love to see lots of black smoke... you are generating lots of soot. Change your oil regualarely. If you are running stock or extra HP but drive pretty smoke free, Soot will not be your enemy nor will TBN. Even if you wait 7500 or 10000 between oil changes on any CG4 oil!



jjw

ND

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Why did DC agree with Cummins longer drain intervals on the 3G engines (15K) even with the same small drain capacity?"





Could it possibly relate to the above stated suggestion that with most ANY of todays recommended diesel lubes - yeah, even the dino stuff - VERY few owners will see any harmful effects of longer drain intervals, and the engine will likely outlast the truck's body - and the owners?



Why pay more, more often, for so potentially little real benefit?





YMMV - and frequently does...

 

[Rob Thomas]

In a warmer climate IMO any good oil would be fine, but for us that live in cold areas I find that not to be true. I used to run conventional oils, at the time, oil was oil, I didn't give it to much thought, all was well, so I thought.



In the winter, after inital start-up my engine sounded like a washing machine full of boulders, still didnt think anything of it. One day I decided to TRY synthetic oil, the next morning about 10*, I started the truck, got out and was walking back to the house, when I realized, the idle was smooth as glass, no typical "bangin" and "knocking" sounds, that was all I needed to hear, been sold on synthetics ever since.



The same goes for the power steering fluid, it used to whine and moan and groan, installed synthetic fluid, no noise, ever.



In the cold I NOTICE a difference, this is a fact you can hear, why wouldn't synthetic be better, in the warmer areas, even if you couldn't "hear" the difference?



I'll continue to use extended drains, until my analysis, or my engine internals show a reason NOT ot use it. I have synthetics in everything that I own, that requires oil.



Also, I drive an average of 40,000 miles a year, my truck gets worked (abused) quite a bit, I am thoughly happy with it (year, model, suiside doors, dana axles, engine and interior), and with my extensive modifications, I'll probobly never sell it (read: never get what it's worth).



This is not a arguement, or a "you should do what I do" speach, this is my expieriance, and what I choose to use. I make zero money selling oil, and no affiliation with anyone or company who does, and I could not care any less what oil you choose to run.



Later, Rob



EDIT: One other thing, with the miles I drive, that equates to 8 oil changes yearly, nearly $300 worth, plus my time, I have better things to do... .....

 

[illflem]

Re: Just some data....

Originally posted by JJW-ND

Why did DC agree with Cummins longer drain intervals on the 3G engines (15K) even with the same small drain capacity?

jjw, I think a lot of the reasoning behind the extended drain is the new oil rating, SH or SJ - can't remember, is designed to hold more soot than it's predecessor. Delo conformed to this rating before the rating was even available, now I think all the major diesel oils do.

In a nutshell it's the improved oil that extended the drain interval more than the engine. I have a feeling that if Cummins were to rewrite the intervals on our older engines with the new oil they also would be longer. Doubt if Cummins is going to do this though.



I agree in a very cold climate synthetic is best. I get around it with a oil pan heater though.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

ROB - just outta curiosity, what brand and weight dino oil were you ORIGINALLY using that was causing engine noise in the cold - and what weight synthetic did you replace it with to quiet it down?

 

[Rob Thomas]

I'll say this... ... ... all the oils I used were of the 15w-40 variety, and several different brands. I use 15w-40 synthetic now.