What brand of oil should I use

[JJW_ND]

My point was for longer drains even with dino oil. I bet if the Cummins recomendation was used back in 93 on the 2nd gens it would have been at least 10K with the CG4 oil. It is DC that does the warrenty. They were still new to a real diesel motor!



I really see no difference in soot generation with 12V or 24V as compared to the 3G until they add EGR or what ever EPA engine efficiency device. IF anything, the newer the motor the less soot it generates! CI4 oils are designe for EGR ... read big soot producing engine!



When it comes to oil and my experiences, I am most impressed with 5W oils. While 15W full synthetic oil help with very cold starts, the 5W full synthetics are as much of an improvement over 15W full synthetic as it was over dino oil. Hopefully 5W dino oils are around the corner.



I had the lowest engine oil temps (towing Summer or Winter) with 5W30 variety.



We have almost a dozen Dodge diesels in our Govt. fleet with most all users first time diesel drivers. They all ***** about how these fancy new dodges can't start when it gets alittle cold out (-28 after truck setting for several days to several weeks). I keep offering to put the same 15w40 in their gassers to see how they start under the same conditions.



Thank God our Transmission go 30 or 50 or 100K between changes. What if the recomendation was 5K? It would get old to change that oil, but I know we all would! Somewhere someone tested enough oil to push a longer recomendation drain and now it has become acepted. Someday the same will happend with engine oil drains. No really change in technology (we already have it) just a manufacture that will recomend alonger drain and back it up with warrenty!



jjw

ND

 

[amsoilman]

Here ya go Joe, look for the "SOOT"! 150,000 miles with only ONE oil drain!

 

[Sled Puller]

Nice Wayne, really nice!



I have never heard about soot build up either, unless it is grossly overfuled, and poorly filtered, extremly long drain.

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by klenger

fortunate1



So, it looks like you use Amsoil too.

His response at the top of this page was funny, too. :-{} :-laf Oo.





I use Amsoil. Have been for 40K miles, now. Seems like there is more blowby than with dino. The truck "uses" oil now, when towing extensively. That didn't happen with dino oil. Oil analysis says everything in the engine is fine. So maybe I'm running to loose. I don't know. I'm also starting to understand women better and that's kinda scary. I might go back to dino next oil change, 8K or so from now. I got Rotella sitting in the garage on the cabinet just waiting to be used. I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by amsoilman

Here ya go Joe, look for the "SOOT"! 150,000 miles with only ONE oil drain!

I adjusted the valves on my 98 with 120k miles and did the KDP tab fix. The truck was previously run with synthetic (Amsoil) and run with extended drains (actually the oil was run 10k between changes, I saw the records), and the insides were dirty and nasty and had to be cleaned with solvent and scrubbed. Just as Mr Donnelly described. Wonder if you could be biased since you sell the stuff? Gee, synthetics must be good stuff since they can sit there and magically eat sub-micron soot, and the soot goes goes away with never any accumulation, (referring only to the extended drain application)wow. Wonder who has written more atricles in the TDR or has more credibility or has done more to advance the state of the art, Joe Donnelly or ??, I'll stay with Joe.

 

[Pit Bull]

I think this is an area where most members won't get into too much trouble. My reasoning is that if you are into CTD's and trucks to the point that you belong to the TDR, you are into caring for your truck and the CTD. I use Rotella T 15w40 and 3-5K oil and filter changes with the Fleetguard or Mopar filter. I will do this for the 5 year 100K warranty period. I know that I can use a synthetic and extended change intervals with no problems and DC should not give me a problem on the warranty if needed. But why take a chance and the possible hassle. After reading what Whiteknights Dad went through it is not worth it to me.

 

[DocStressor]

Soot doesn't accumulate on engine surfaces unless there is some other problem. Deposits are caused by additive depletion which leads to oxidation products either from the oil or from the fuel. Synthetic base stocks really can't oxidize much, even under what most people consider extended drain intervals. If you are overfueled, have a bad injector, or maybe if you only drive short distances (but I doubt this would do it), you can develop sludge which can trap some soot. But the most common cause of a bad sludge problem is antifreeze in the oil. Ethylene glycol oxidizes to an acid very rapidly if it gets into the oil. This rapidly depletes the TBN and detergency of the oil and sludge start to form in a hurry. It doesn't take much of a coolant leak to do this. I've used synthetic oils in all my vehicles since 1977. The only time I have seen an engine look anything different than what Wayne has shown was when I blew a head gasket in a Fiat. The valves and valve cover was coated with about a quarter inch of gunk and there was about a half inch of gunk in the oil pan. That was with Mobil 1 with only 1500 miles on it.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Wonder if you could be biased since you sell the stuff? Gee, synthetics must be good stuff since they can sit there and magically eat sub-micron soot, and the soot goes goes away with never any accumulation"



I have the uttmost respect for Tejas, Joe, AND Wayne - and whether Wayne's photos can be considered "typical" or not might be debateable, his integrity and honesty are NOT!



Any of the later recommended motor oils specified for our diesels contain formulations SPECIFICALLY designed to capture and hold contaminents in suspension - to be drained at the recommended intervals. Those using extended drain intervals AND decent bypass filters can probably mitigate a high percentage of that buildup of contaminents - but then, you could do the same with a good dino oil as well - my old '91 truck looked nearly as good as Waynes with mostly Delo 15/40, and a Frantz bypass that was only on the truck about the last 30,000 or less of the 120,000 miles it had when I sold it after buying the new truck... That, of course, with oil changes about every 5-7000 miles...



As I have pointed out before, you don't HAVE to use synthetics to use extended drain intervals - modern dino oils will also go for about 32,000 miles on extended drain intervals - and at reduced cost compared to synthetics - but the stuff is cheap enough it's hardly worth the effort - or potential risk...



I certainly would not debate the value of a good synthetic over dino oil in extreme situations - hot OR cold - but extended drain intervals, mostly used to recapture the added expense of the synthetics, is not for me - and since my local climate doesn't dictate the "need" for synthetics, Delo 400 works just fine...

 

[Rob Thomas]

Gee Tejas, I sled pull (with BIG injectors) drag race, tow , and generally beat the snot outta my truck/engine with nearly 500hp, I've had synthetics in the engine since 15,000 miles, I now have 81,000 miles. I run extended drains, and have dual by-pass filters. Since I have no connection with Amsoil or any other oil manufacturer, would you like me to snap a pic with my valve cover off? It'll only take me 5-minutes, let me know.



Later, Rob

 

[Riflesmith]

I have not read any posts where proponents of synthetic oil usage are critical of other's decisions to choose something else. Any reasonable person understands that use of low cost dino oil changed regularly is a good choice for long engine life. It is unfortunate that those of us who use synthetic oil and choose to lengthen oil drain intervals(with oil analysis to prove the safety of what we are doing), are not entitled to the same courtesy.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

"Wonder if you could be biased since you sell the stuff? Gee, synthetics must be good stuff since they can sit there and magically eat sub-micron soot, and the soot goes goes away with never any accumulation"



I have the uttmost respect for Tejas, Joe, AND Wayne - and whether Wayne's photos can be considered "typical" or not might be debateable, his integrity and honesty are NOT!





What we CAN demand and insist upon, is common decency, honesty and freedom from unnecessary personal attacks against the many who might not share our own personal opinion - OR the attitude that OUR position is the ONLY right one, and that any "intelligent person" should also adopt it as gospel



...

Gary?

You feeling allright? I am agreeing with you, this is really strange... .



I also have respect for the three mentioned, although I do not take what any of them have said or seen as gospel, nor do I expect people to take what I say or do as gospel.



Nobody said that Joe or Tejas didn't have soot build up, or questioned what they saw, Wayne should at least get that benefit of the doubt.

They/ we are questioning whether an extended drain has anything do with what they have seen.



Now Lee Weber has suggested it was not soot at all, that was built up, but possibly something else. .



I am pretty sure, Wayne did not doctor that photo, or post misinformation about it.



Take my case for instance.

I did everything "wrong"

1) Flushed the engine when I bought it, at 26,000 miles

2) Installed Synthetic 5W-30

3) extended the first filter change to about 10,500, instead of 7500, no By-Pass.

4) used a full flow filter not on DCs "approved list"

5) ran the first batch of oil 1 year, about 30,000 miles.

6) Bombed excessivley during that peroid.



When we tore it down, the thing was spotless inside,nothing built up anywhere.

Had to be something else involved in those engines, besides an extended drain. What, I have no idea.



Now, instead of waisting time challenging peoples credibility on whether they sell this or that, we could be trying to find out what other common factors were involved, and learn from this.

 

[illflem]

This is a question not a statement.

Wouldn't soot deposits tend to build in the lower part of the engine not the top end thus not show up by removing valve covers?

Just seems like if the oil is flowing the particles would tend to stay solution but once pooled up would settle.

 

[RustyJC]

The detergent/dispersent additive package in the oil will hold the soot particles in suspension until the oil is drained - unless it's depleted (left in too long) or overloaded by an overfueled engine.



Rusty

 

[Rob Thomas]

Originally posted by illflem

This is a question not a statement.

Wouldn't soot deposits tend to build in the lower part of the engine not the top end thus not show up by removing valve covers?

Just seems like if the oil is flowing the particles would tend to stay solution but once pooled up would settle.

Bill, don't make me pull my oil pan.



Later, Rob

 

[Sled Puller]

Good question Bill.



Tejas, Joe?



Where was the offending material?

On the top of the case, the bottom, or throughout?



If it was all over, I would guess it would be in the valvetrain, also.



if it was settled in the bottom of the case, then maybe you would not see it under the valve cover, but maybe the pan is is clear full.



May explain why those oil changes were taking less and less oil.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

In virtually EVERY case of engines I have torn down and rebuilt over the years, the WORSE buildup of crud was in the valve covers - second worse, in the case of V8's at least, was in the lifter gallery and cam gear assembly... The pans, bycomparison, were pretty clean...

 

[Texas Diesel]

whoa boys, too much info too fast.

dont know where to start.

Ok, the sooty build-up I was referring to was inside each valve cover and inside the timing case cover. More toward the bottom I think but pretty much a typical, inside engine type of crud. Very normal and expected given the mileage. The truck was on Amsoil, Amsoil Oil Filter, 10k drain intervals, and Amsoil Air Filter, plus Amsoil stickers on the truck, he was a "fanatic" about Amsoil. I DONT MEAN FANATIC IN A BAD WAY, I mean he was enthsiastic (SP?) about it. The inside of the engine was very typical, no cleaner or dirtier than any other engine I have ever been in. Read that statement again!! My question about bias was NOT an insult!!!! I love my Dodge / Cummins (both of them ) but when someone asks me if I like my truck I dont mention LP's, DC warranty record, trac bars. Sure I am biased about my truck, why not, it's the best available. You get the idea. Besides, if I offended or questioned Waynes integrity, let him tell me, he is a big boy now, he doesnt need others to run interference for him.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Rob Thomas

Gee Tejas, I sled pull (with BIG injectors) drag race, tow , and generally beat the snot outta my truck/engine with nearly 500hp, I've had synthetics in the engine since 15,000 miles, I now have 81,000 miles. I run extended drains, and have dual by-pass filters. Since I have no connection with Amsoil or any other oil manufacturer, would you like me to snap a pic with my valve cover off? It'll only take me 5-minutes, let me know.



Later, Rob

Every engine I have seen the insides of at 80k miles are pretty much clean. Time seems to be a factor too, my engine has 119k and 5 years and had the typical build up inspite of the oil the previous owner used. It was certainly no cleaner than normal and no dirtier either.



I always love seeing pictures of high performance diesels, send away!!! -- email address removed --

 

[Rob Thomas]

Ok, I'll get you a pic, but it'll have to wait 'till tomorrow, it's dark out now, and snowin' like a, um, well, it's snowin' pretty good.





Rob

 

[amsoilman]

Wonder if you could be biased since you sell the stuff?

Tejas Deezul,

No I am not biased! I would use the stuff even if I were not selling it. I just think it is a very high quality product! If you think I "doctored" the picture, here is another one. Notice the valve springs..... they are different than on mine. This one only has 60,000 miles on one oil drain.



And I have to agree with Riflesmith:

"I have not read any posts where proponents of synthetic oil usage are critical of other's decisions to choose something else. Any reasonable person understands that use of low cost dino oil changed regularly is a good choice for long engine life. It is unfortunate that those of us who use synthetic oil and choose to lengthen oil drain intervals(with oil analysis to prove the safety of what we are doing), are not entitled to the same courtesy. "



Best regards,



Wayne