What is the future of Smarty?

[PRout]

Yeah, its just that they have time for the new stuff and left us in the dust is what caused me to voice my discontent and obviously others' as well. Then they are supposed to be on vacation and on and on but the site has been redone (which takes time) and they are busy building the 6. 7 box now. They just havent been honest with us.

I have been more vocal about it than i wanted to be so its really time to bow out of the smarty thing, (which is what the madselectronics people want anyways. )

Thanks for the replies Gary and good luck on the selling price!!

my classified ad has been modified accordingly also.

 

['strokeThis_'07]

I understand your guys' concerns, but honestly the business decision to cater to the newer trucks has been made, which makes sense. Everybody is scrambling to get a 6. 7 programmer, so you really cant blame them for that. Its the lastest platform, and to ignore it to release stuff for a platform that is now nearly 5-10 years old would be a bad business decision. Same with the 03-07 trucks, there is more potential in them. Think about it, how many really fast 24 valves do you see as compared to 3rd gens? Unfortunately, 24 valves seem to be somewhat limited, always have and probably always will. And the limiting factor seems to be the VP44. Not knockin on anybody, so dont take it personal, thats just how it seems to me.

 

[Giachino]

I have a 3rd gen and am running Beta 4. 4, so i'm sure i have a different perspective than the 2nd geners... . but that being said... . in relation to other companies, who else is even close in offering updates for 2nd and 3rd gen'ers (for free)? Based upon past perfromance, i'll guarantee that if Bob/Marco say there's something comming out, there will be..... now it may not be as soon as we like (I'm waiting for the production equivalent of beta 4. 4 with diff tq mgmt settings)... but if they say it's comming, it is.....



I'm sure there's much to the story, they started small, and have probably grown quite significantly... . sometimes that's a painfull process... . as someone pointed out, they've also got the 6. 7 to deal with... . and regardless of how great bob and marco are, they're still a business, and $ count, and the 6. 7 is the future... . they need to get to market asap, so they're ahead of the curve... we'd all do the same... . doesn't mean they wont do their best to provide customer service to existing customers, but it does mean they have less time to deal with the 2nd / 3rd gen updates... .



With Marco comming out, i'd suspect there's going to be a full court press to finalize some of the software that's been in Beta/Development for quite some time... . i do believe this is his first time out since this smarty thing's been going... . lets hope we get some good results!



And don't get me wrong guys, i understand the frustration... waiting for Smarty updates is like waiting for Crack..... it's real hard to be patient.....

 

[PRout]

Thanks for the input ST07. .

This hasn't been taken personally as there are plenty of other people with similar comments on the boards, and I have learned the taking things personal lessons long ago.

In return, I have been careful to not direct my comments at anyone personally either. Just said them the way I see em and also tried to give back doors for people to walk through and even layed out suggestions on how we would like to have things improved, in detail to make those back doors easy to walk through. Just cant do more than that to be fair. My only regret is as was said by another member "he wished he had given up his attempts to work with the vendor 6 months ago".

Edited: Good luck with your smartys guys. Mine has been sold. I hope The MFG takes care of your needs & wishes.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Wow I was adding the Smarty to my wish list. First a new LP then Smarty and on down the list. I guess I will be redoing my list with no Smarty. Though I have no intention of going past 300 to 350 Hp and wanted the Smarty for the towing low end grunt. Will start the search for something else and if you guys find something post and will consider replacing the Smarty on my list. Thanks guys.

 

[16919]

Manuals are better than autos with a smarty

 

[RJWEST]

ditto: My 02 6 speed shifts better!! plus the pull at low rpm is GREAT.
YUP, Shifts better, can feel the engine rpm now, instead of the PCM
fighting me.....


My Opinion, when stacking parts from different venders, you are the design engineer, tester, experimenter... NO ONE can test all aftermarket combos...
except you.

I have bought/installed a lot of things that did not work out so well,
that is the MOD game,,, I may have been just as satifised with a hypertec,
would not have know unless I tried it, I chose to go straight to the smarty.
( based on comments in the forums ) If Marco release new VP programs , fine,
but Marco's gotta feed the family, No money in giving away custom tunes
I would expect free upgrades to problems encountered with typical applications, but to custom tune all combos, I don't know if that is a realistic expection... .

 

[CDonaldson]

I would bet that doing programming changes for the 7. 5's is maybe an easier step, would be more business prudent at this time. They DO have to keep up with the growing market, after all the '08's are on the doorstep.



If they say the 2nd gens will get addressed, they will, these fellows HAVE kept their word all along. It may be that the stuff is close to being beta tested as we all type.



I have had my Smarty for well over 6 mos and still am waiting for my phone company to upgrade me to high-speed DSL, something that was supposed to be available the same week I ordered my Smarty. I cannot download the programming at my current baud rate, so mine is still BNIB. No place to go to get a good connection either, too far out in the boonies and no electronic pit stops anywhere near either.



CD

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's pretty noticeable that the cavalier attitudes of posters to this thread are 3rd generation owners - those who have had their unique needs and expectations already pretty well taken care of... :-laf



Fact is, the expectation of some 2nd generation owners was built upon a promise and advertising that specifically pointed to the ability and implied likelihood of future programming upgrades for their units as needs and enhancements became available. In a sense, this was much like a product warranty - service AFTER the sale, and the assurance the customer would NOT be forgotten after the initial transaction!



How many here, when taking their trucks back to a dealer for warranty service or a TSB, would cheerfully accept being told "sorry, but we can't help you right now - our mechanics are busy taking care of later model trucks, and your older one will just have to wait - if we ever get back to it at all... "



The advertising as of TODAY on MADS main page states as product features:

Upgrades through build in USB connector (see Download

page on this site)

That is clearly a promise of service AFTER the sale - and implication that continued development WILL be offered for some reasonable point into the future - and hopefully a promise that will NOT be voided due to efforts required by the maker to keep up with later year models and technology - any more than your local Dodge dealership ignoring your truck problem or other work because he was too busy with newer stuff and couldn't/wouldn't spare the mechanics to take care of YOUR needs!



Guys with 2nd generation Smarties aren't asking for something "extra", or a handout - but ARE asking what the future holds as far as what they were promised at the time they bought the product - and few of us feel that's unreasonable, or should in any way hinge on or be minimized by what later production issues MADS becomes involved in.



Yeah - you 3rd generation guys were pretty well taken care of - all we 2nd genners ask is the same thing!

 

[Bob Wagner]

I promise my truck will be strapped to a dyno when marco makes the trip to the states.



Our intentions are not to forget about the vp 44 trucks.



We are limited to what the vp44 can put out for hp gains.



I promise this we be addressed.



Thanks

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I promise my truck will be strapped to a dyno when marco makes the trip to the states.



Our intentions are not to forget about the vp 44 trucks.



We are limited to what the vp44 can put out for hp gains.



I promise this we be addressed.



Thanks

Thanks Bob - good to hear - when IS Marco heading our way?



And it seems that while there's a fair number of scattered issues with some users, the more common one I've seen revolves around the smoke issues, especially from a stop. I realize (I think!) that the original Smarty program was developed for fueling increases for stock engines - which was fine for those at that point in mods - but then, like the guys with 3rd generation trucks, as other fueling enhancements such as larger injectors are also added, the combined increase results NOT in more power, just more smoke!



Therefore, reprogramming that provides the same excellent low-RPM performance Smarty is known for, but also alters the fueling to lower more efficient levels should be a plus. I certainly do NOT think the low end performance would be significantly reduced by better control of low end fuel/smoke.



As it stands in my own case with 1. 6 injectors, use ANY level Smarty programs makes around town driving way too high in smoke, even with the Comp switched completely off!



Fact is, the VP-44 has proved to provide FAR more fuel/power than the Smarty calls for - so the primary "need" seems to be better application of that Smarty fueling when combined with the more common aftermarket stuff so they complement, rather than interfere or degrade each other and limit what should be total combined maximum power - just as was done on supplemental Smarty program upgrades MADS provided for the 3rd generation trucks.



At least that's the way *I* see it...



And certainly, NO offense intended against you Bob, or Marco - just venting a bit of what appears to be not too uncommon frustrations, questions and concerns - as well as responding to other poster comments in this thread.



You and Marco may not fully appreciate what you have read here, but I'm sure you have a far better understanding of some of our feelings than you would if we had just kept them to ourselves - the end result SHOULD be an even better end product from Marco and MADS Electronics, and that ultimately benefits us all!

 

[Bob Wagner]

Gary, I agree with you 100% and I will go over all this with Marco.



I know Marco and Stefano will be here in October for sure.



Thanks for your patience

 

[PVanderlugt]

Would like to see the Auto guy's problems adressed too with the stacked 3-4 shifts and it falling flat on its face in overdrive. I don't seem to have any smoke problem however, seems to be more with the manual guy's

Pete

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I don't seem to have any smoke problem however, seems to be more with the manual guy's



Pete

Seems reasonable - the auto transmission's torque converter slippage from a dead stop reduces engine loading and eases the tendency to smoke as compared to the positive engagement and higher engine loading of a manual...



That also points up the need for more programming refinements...

 

[FTwardoch]

If they say the 2nd gens will get addressed, they will, these fellows HAVE kept their word all along. It may be that the stuff is close to being beta tested as we all type.



CD

No, there has been promises for over a year now that the stacked shift issue would be addressed. Nothing has been done. To start, it was blamed on our trucks/transmission's/etc. There has been MANY different folks asking for help, from guys with twins to guys like me with mild mods (Mach 1. 0 sticks), with no help.



Fact.

 

[NoSeeUm]

It's pretty noticeable that the cavalier attitudes of posters to this thread are 3rd generation owners - those who have had their unique needs and expectations already pretty well taken care of... :-

The VP44 and the Catcher is what started the whole Smarty ball rolling?



Jim

 

[BillBrown]

I did not read every post here but enough from the secon gen people wanting Marco to take care of thier miss match trucks that I had to add My coments also. I had the smarty untill I decided to put My truck back to almost stock levels (planing to trade the truck soon) and have had several diferent injectors and turbos. From My experience if the turbo, exhaust, injectors, and transmission are properly matched up then there is no isuses with smoke or surging. I had nothing but more smooth power tha I could use in Mine. If Your turbo is too small or too large for the amount of fuel You have it is going to cause issues. If You are trying to run on the stock torque converter there is going to be problems. If You exhaust is too restictive it will also cause problems. There is no perfect fomula to decide the size of everything but A little common sence and reading to see what has worked for others helps. If You are just looking for bragging rights at the dyno instead of smooth and fun power driving You can expect to have surging and or smoke. I had Mine setup for somwhere in the area 450 - 500 hp and could take about anything that pulled up beside Me and still only blow A small puff of smoke off the line and have one of the smoothes running and crusing trucks to be had on the road. The main thing to remember is decide what You want when You start and if that is fun the build acordingly, but if it is braging rights be prepared to put up with the smoke, surging, and other isues involved. If You want fun, smooth, and fast it can be done with the software in the smarty now. By the way I was still getting 23-24 mpg on the highway and 17-18 in town on A qc lb 4x4. Who could ask for more.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I did not read every post here but enough from the secon gen people wanting Marco to take care of thier miss match trucks that I had to add My coments also. I had the smarty untill I decided to put My truck back to almost stock levels (planing to trade the truck soon) and have had several diferent injectors and turbos. From My experience if the turbo, exhaust, injectors, and transmission are properly matched up then there is no isuses with smoke or surging. I had nothing but more smooth power tha I could use in Mine. If Your turbo is too small or too large for the amount of fuel You have it is going to cause issues. If You are trying to run on the stock torque converter there is going to be problems. If You exhaust is too restictive it will also cause problems. There is no perfect fomula to decide the size of everything but A little common sence and reading to see what has worked for others helps. If You are just looking for bragging rights at the dyno instead of smooth and fun power driving You can expect to have surging and or smoke. I had Mine setup for somwhere in the area 450 - 500 hp and could take about anything that pulled up beside Me and still only blow A small puff of smoke off the line and have one of the smoothes running and crusing trucks to be had on the road. The main thing to remember is decide what You want when You start and if that is fun the build acordingly, but if it is braging rights be prepared to put up with the smoke, surging, and other isues involved. If You want fun, smooth, and fast it can be done with the software in the smarty now. By the way I was still getting 23-24 mpg on the highway and 17-18 in town on A qc lb 4x4. Who could ask for more.

While your observations are generally accurate, you either didn't read all the above posts, or have totally missed their point:



The greatest single point of Smarty is the advertised capability, and promise of specialized and upgraded programming to be developed and provided AFTER the purchase, as later needs and expectations arise - that REMAINS an advertising claim on the MADS webpage, and one the 3rd generation owners have already been provided to address EXACTLY the addition of other power mods as you mention above - what we 2nd generation owners are waiting for, is the SAME later program updates the 3rd generation owners have ALREADY received!



Capeesh?

 

[BillBrown]

I stated in My post Idid not read all posts in the thread. As I stated before though from what I have read is that if the power mods were properly matched there would be no need to change the software, it is perfectly smooth and eficient as is when all mods match. When fuel is added then air needs to be added in proportion. If A cam is added along with A ported head then A turbo upgrade is not needed to supply extra air and any of these will actually hurt performance if fuel is not added also. Just match the mods for what You are trying to achieve instead of what that little piece of paper from the dyno says and You will have A truck that is A pleasure to drive and as fast as You could ask for.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I stated in My post Idid not read all posts in the thread. As I stated before though from what I have read is that if the power mods were properly matched there would be no need to change the software, it is perfectly smooth and eficient as is when all mods match. When fuel is added then air needs to be added in proportion. If A cam is added along with A ported head then A turbo upgrade is not needed to supply extra air and any of these will actually hurt performance if fuel is not added also. Just match the mods for what You are trying to achieve instead of what that little piece of paper from the dyno says and You will have A truck that is A pleasure to drive and as fast as You could ask for.

Yes, I realized from your earlier post you hadn't read all the posts - but the greatest debate point between us is YOUR apparent view and opinion that Smarty customers should simply accept the need to tailor THEIR other power mods to accommodate the available Smarty programs as delivered in original form.



But that is contrary to the claimed and advertised ability of Smarty to be UPGRADED and modified exactly to perform WITH additional mods - rather than be degraded by them, or to degrade them by it's own programming.



That ability of Smarty has been well displayed, as Marco and staff HAVE provided additional Smarty upgrades to address issues 3rd generation users had when Smarty was combined with larger turbos and injectors.



And as I stated earlier, we 2nd generation owners would appreciate the same provisions to improve the Smarty programs WE have as well - it CAN be done, was developed, advertised and designed to accomplish that function, and many of us are still waiting for it to happen.



We ask and EXPECT that the Smarty, within reasonable limits, be tailored to smoothly function with other common engine power mods - rather than be forced to adjust or adapt those other mods to work with Smarty - because, again THAT is supposedly one of Smarty's greatest design advantages over competing power enhancers.