what turbo and injector size to use? NEED HELP!!

[av62nv]

My truck has head gasket leaking, from running truck with h&s mini max on the hot damn! Setting which adds 175 hp. So I decided to upgrade to arp 625 studs and while im in there injector tips and turbo. I just don't know what combo to get or how to match. Truck has h&s mini max, 5" turbo back exaust (dpf delete), two piece exaust manifold( egr delete), intake manifold, k&n intake system. My goal is to be in high 12 second 1/4 mile. What combo do I need? Was wanting to use a stock style plug and play turbo. So what su up do I need and what else would be needed?

 

[AH64ID]

Do you want to keep the exhaust brake?

 

[cerberusiam]

If you want to use a VE turbo get ready to keep having HG problems, its the single biggest cause of that failure. Gonna need a bit more turbo than the stocker to do that and keep things running, what its your choice. Tips will give you mor efuel but unless th erest of the system s upgraded you hit a ceiling around 500 HP. What else do you have modded?

 

[AH64ID]

From what I gather the 64mm HE451 is plug and play and no VE issues. They do take some fabwork for exhaust and intake thou.

 

[Bob V]

If you want to use a VE turbo get ready to keep having HG problems, its the single biggest cause of that failure. Gonna need a bit more turbo than the stocker to do that and keep things running, what its your choice. Tips will give you mor efuel but unless th erest of the system s upgraded you hit a ceiling around 500 HP. What else do you have modded?

the turbo does not cause the head gasket to go. You will have the same problems even with different turbos

 

[cerberusiam]

the turbo does not cause the head gasket to go.

The HE351VE does, or rather its desgin and control systems do. HG's are problem on the 6.7 anyway, just less of a problem when a more standard turbo(s) are used.

 

[Bob V]

The HE351VE does, or rather its desgin and control systems do. HG's are problem on the 6.7 anyway, just less of a problem when a more standard turbo(s) are used.

you need to stop reading the forums and get some practical experience. Even 100 psi of back pressure is WAY less than combustion pressure. If the turbo is going to cause a gasket to blow it would be the exhaust manifold or turbo gasket, not the head gasket. What blows the head gasket it running to much air and fuel and too much combustion pressure, like running a programmer on "kill" and trying to make a 7,000 pound truck accelerate like a sports car.

 

[AH64ID]

you need to stop reading the forums and get dome practical experience. Even 100 psi of back pressure is WAY less than combustion pressure. If the turbo is going to cause a gasket to blow it would be the exhaust manifold or turbo gasket, not the head gasket. What blows the head gasket it running to much air and fuel and too much combustion pressure, like running a programmer on "kill" and trying to make a 7,000 pound truck accelerate like a sports car.

This is all true, but the 6.7 with its Siamese cylinders does not like excessive back pressure. It's not the 100psi if drive pressure that is the issue, it's the lack of flow thru the cylinders. This creates a larger volume of air in the cylinder, and thus higher combustion pressure.

It's a 6.7 thing, the 5.9 does not have the same issues. A larger turbine or external WG fixes the issue, how? By increasing flow thru the cylinders and reducing combustion pressure.

Take it or leave it, but that's what's happening. It's not the drive pressure that is doing it, but the same issue that causes the excessive drive pressure causes the HG issues.

 

[Bob V]

Here is what usually happens, there are people who want a fast diesel truck. They spend a lot of money on a truck and the for a little more they can buy a "box" that adds 200 hp. They play with the truck with the extra hp untill something brakes- a headgasket. Now they read the forums and someone said the need a new turbo and headstuds. This is not cheep, but they NEED the extra hp. So the credit cards get maxed out and a new turbo, exhaust manifold, headstuds,head gasket, are ordered and installed. Problem solved! Was it the new turbo? The headstuds? Maybe the new headgasket is better? Or maybe, they take it a little easier on the throttle because the can't afford to do it again, and their " significant other" told them they are not spending another dime on that darn truck.

 

[AH64ID]

Here is what usually happens, there are people who want a fast diesel truck. They spend a lot of money on a truck and the for a little more they can buy a "box" that adds 200 hp. They play with the truck with the extra hp untill something brakes- a headgasket. Now they read the forums and someone said the need a new turbo and headstuds. This is not cheep, but they NEED the extra hp. So the credit cards get maxed out and a new turbo, exhaust manifold, headstuds,head gasket, are ordered and installed. Problem solved! Was it the new turbo? The headstuds? Maybe the new headgasket is better? Or maybe, they take it a little easier on the throttle because the can't afford to do it again, and their " significant other" told them they are not spending another dime on that darn truck.

You can think what you want... This is an old, old discussion. The turbo is the issue on the 6.7. It took several years to figure out why, for the reasons you are arguing now. You are not wrong in your explanation, but the 6.7 doesn't follow those rules based on it's cylinder design.

 

[Bob V]

Lack of flow through the head means LESS fresh air, which means smaller "bang" which means lower peak combustion pressure. The modified 5.9s will also blow headgaskets too when modified and driven hard, and it is not because of the turbo.

 

[cerberusiam]

running to much air and fuel and too much combustion pressure, like running a programmer on "kill" and trying to make a 7,000 pound truck accelerate like a sports car.

Silly me, I just never considered that to be the problem.

:-laf:-laf

Even 100 psi of back pressure is WAY less than combustion pressure.

Ummm, you want to point out where I EVER said that was the problem? I didn't even hint at it being an issue becasue it is the typical urban myth that doesn't hold water. In fact, if you want to go back thru posts for several years you will find I have stated many times DP is NOT the cause of HG failures. Might want to limit that ready-fire-aim tendency a little bit.

As John so aptly pointed out, VOLUME of air and lack of flow is the problem not DP. While volume of air does not by itself create the problem, the oxygen content of that volume is the real culprit in conjunction with the HE351VE and non-funtional EGR. It so pronounced that a STOCK fueled engine is known to have issues when the EGR does not work correctly or is tampered with.

To understand how it works together one has to spend some time under the hood and working with the control systems to see the issue. I wonder, does that constitue "shop time" or "practical experience"? As I said, the HE351VE is at the heart of the issue because of its design and control systems, specifically the tendency to slam the collar shut or very low whne APPS readings go low. The DP combined with the tight housing tends to boost the volume of air generated by the turbo even at lower boost pressures. Since just about EVERY performance build consistes of disabling or blocking the EGR it is no longer is diluting the combustible air in the charge. Given the typical modern diesel engine fuel system design of running stoich rich, the conditions are now exist with extra air, extra fuel, no air charge dilution, and lack of flow.

Based on practical experience that WOULD generate some higher cylinder pressures and temps, on even a STOCK engine. Imagine the effect with a programmer adding extra fuel while driving normal towing a 15k load and using the EB?

Kinda like "running a programmer on "kill" and trying to make a 7,000 pound truck accelerate like a sports car" one would think. Based on practical experience of course.

 

[AH64ID]

Lack of flow through the head means LESS fresh air, which means smaller "bang" which means lower peak combustion pressure. The modified 5.9s will also blow headgaskets too when modified and driven hard, and it is not because of the turbo.

Trust me, I was in the same boat you are in several years ago.. Sit back and look at it more.

5.9's don't have HG issues like 6.7's do, even at the same elevated back pressure reducing the flow.

Not sure how else to put it.

DP doesn't blow HG's, that's a given.. it's just an indicator of other issues, one of which the 6.7 doesn't fare well with.

 

[Bob V]

Trust me, I was in the same boat you are in several years ago.. Sit back and look at it more.

5.9's don't have HG issues like 6.7's do, even at the same elevated back pressure reducing the flow.

Not sure how else to put it.



DP doesn't blow HG's, that's a given.. it's just an indicator of other issues, one of which the 6.7 doesn't fare well with.

how many miles have you personally driven a 6.7?

 

[cerberusiam]

Lack of flow through the head means LESS fresh air, which means smaller "bang" which means lower peak combustion pressure.

You are ignoring the factors that actually drive combustion temps and pressure, fuel and oxygen. A denser charge of air that is not cut with exhaust gas will ALWAYS burn hotter with less flow. The fuel air mixture is spending more time in the cylinder due to the high DP it needs to overcome, plus, it has more oxygen to move closer to stoich combustion. Stoich rich programming plus dense air plus higher dwell time in-cylinder equals higher temps and pressures, fundamental physics of the operation.

 

[AH64ID]

how many miles have you personally driven a 6.7?

How is that even relevant? Driving one has nothing to do with the understanding of what's going on in the cylinder. In fact there is not a single thing in a stock truck that would provide any education on the subject. So, relevance?

 

[Bob V]

You don't own one, you don't work on them, where do you get your info?

 

[AH64ID]

How do you know I don't work on or with them? I don't own a lot of things that I have extensive knowledge about, again what is the relevance? Just because you own one doesn't make you an expert.. Just a reverse on your logic.

Look at the data that had been presented to you, it's far more factual than your "7,000 lb sports car" or "significant other" stuff.. Who are you trying to convince?

Why do you think all the big power guys are still running 5.9's? There is no replacement for displacement, right...other than strength.

I'm not knocking the 6.7, it's a pretty darn good motor and, IMHO, the best of the big 3. It's design just doesn't lend itself to as big of power as the. 5.9 as easily. With the proper parts it had great potential thou, the QSB 6.7s make more power than the QSB 5.9s...and that's OEM stuff.

 

[cerberusiam]

You don't own one, you don't work on them, where do you get your info?

Questioning new concepts to gain an understanding is good. It creates a dialog that is conducive for communication of valid information on a subject. It is how we learn.

Spewing non-relevant BS, questioning the integrity of posters, and generally being a jack wagon about something you don't understand just brands you a TROLL.

Quite possibly that is your intent because you don't own one, never seen one, never examined the engine construction, and never bothered to learn about the engine. Can't tell from your posts because they are all derogatory and combative. You have been presented the info that validates the conclusions. If you have anything relevant to add I am sure the OP would appreciate the input.

If you want applicable experience, I have worked on 1 or 2, I have driven a 6.7 between 1 and 10k miles. My son has a 6.7 in his service truck he drives thousands of miles per month. He works on these engines and many other makes including Detroit, Mercedes, and Cat day after day. What I haven't seen, he has in triplicate.

 

[Bob V]

Your "facts" are full of holes and you are the one who doesn't understand and are making things up. I will keep driving my "inferior" truck, and I will keep smiling and you will keep spreading BS on the forums. Every time you post I feel sorry for the poor fool who listens to your crap. I am done here.