2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission What year did Dodge stop using CAD on front axle?

[SRath]

1> You cannot "repair" (or even do preventative maintainence on) unit bearings. You must cough up big bucks for replacements.

2> The load of the truck is on 2 bearings that are very close together, as opposed to the tapered bearings in a live bearing hub which distributes to load over a wider area. A hard sideways hit can easily take out a unit hub.

3> Anytime you break a stub shaft or u-joint the chances are excellent that you will need new axle shafts since the broken parts hit unbroken ones. the u-joint ears are almost always damaged.

4> having broken "something", which setup is FAR easier to remove and remove the broken shaft(s)? Certainly NOT the unit bearing!

5> once you remove the broken shaft, the unit bearing hub is DONE. It requires the shaft to be intact and tight to hold the bearings together. A live bearing spindle setup is not affected by the removal of the broken parts.

6> Many have reported from 1 to 3 mpg improvement with lockouts. That is NOT an insignificant number.

7> The rest of your front driveline also benefits from NOT turning all the time and wearing out when you do not need it. Those parts are expensive.

8> To say that 3 pieces of axle tube pressed together is as strong or stronger than a one-piece axle tube is like claiming the 2-piece inner shaft is as strong or stronger than a 1-piece shaft. It defies logic as well as physics.

9> You neglect to mention that not only is the 2-piece passenger side shaft EXTREMELY weak, but it AND the driver side shaft on a CAD Dodge axle are really only Dana 44-sized pieces. Talk about WIMPY!! That alone is more than enough reason to want to get rid of them given the potential of the Cummins motor.

10> Why don't you link us to your website where the Ford swap requires only "minor mods". That would be very interesting reading.

Thanks for your input, but you and I will not be agreeing on much. Everyone else can make up their own minds.

 

[Pavemen]

1> You cannot "repair" (or even do preventative maintainence on) unit bearings. You must cough up big bucks for replacements.

there are a few posts around about rebuilding unit bearings as they use standard bearings internally. i'll see if i can find them, tey might not be on TDR, but they are out there. i have not tried it myself, but some folks have and supposedly been successful

2> The load of the truck is on 2 bearings that are very close together, as opposed to the tapered bearings in a live bearing hub which distributes to load over a wider area. A hard sideways hit can easily take out a unit hub.

i will give you the added load bearing capacity due to the wider distance, but a hard hit will mess up any front end. however, with properly spec'd wheels a lot of the differences are not as big

3> Anytime you break a stub shaft or u-joint the chances are excellent that you will need new axle shafts since the broken parts hit unbroken ones. the u-joint ears are almost always damaged.

never said anything about not having to deal with replacing both inner and stub/outer shafts and ujoints if a joint or ear lets go regardless of the hub style

4> having broken "something", which setup is FAR easier to remove and remove the broken shaft(s)? Certainly NOT the unit bearing!

how many broken stub shafts in a lock out setup have you dealt with versus unit bearing setup? break a joint or ear in a unit bearing setup and you can unbolt the unit bearing from the knuckle, leaving the stub shaft in place and not mess with the hub nut, remove the joint and inner and bolt the unit bearing back up. break a joint or ear on the lockout setup, you chance taking out the lockouts and related parts as well, possibly jamming the outer in the spindle and have to do a full tear down from the spindle out to R&R the axle to make it driveable, if you can pick all the broken parts out of the spindle in the field and hope you have your spindle socket and all the tools to fix it.

5> once you remove the broken shaft, the unit bearing hub is DONE. It requires the shaft to be intact and tight to hold the bearings together. A live bearing spindle setup is not affected by the removal of the broken parts.

i have yet to see broken stub/outer shaft in the unit bearing that was not a simple issue of broken ears. I have never seen or heard of anyone breaking a stub shaft between the flange and threads, only the ears. This means the unit bearsing is fully intact and capable being being driven on since the stuf is holding the hub together. You likely have to remove the unit bearing/stub as an assembly to remove the inner shaft, but its drivable.

6> Many have reported from 1 to 3 mpg improvement with lockouts. That is NOT an insignificant number.

perhaps on long hauls at highway speeds, but i have heard average driving nets little gain

7> The rest of your front driveline also benefits from NOT turning all the time and wearing out when you do not need it. Those parts are expensive.

it might not be a CTD, but my 97 gasser has been driven with the CAD engaged for years with a lockright locker, unit bearings and 35-37" tires and it has over 200k miles on it and I have replaced one set of axle seals, one front CV rebuild, and nothing to the tcase. Front pinion does not leak either. This is with 5-10 of lift over the years. Sure its extra wear, and if it does casue a problem its not that expensive or difficult to replace axle seals or a tcase output seal/bearing.

8> To say that 3 pieces of axle tube pressed together is as strong or stronger than a one-piece axle tube is like claiming the 2-piece inner shaft is as strong or stronger than a 1-piece shaft. It defies logic as well as physics.

Off all the hard offroading that I have done, as well as the hardcore wheeling that others on my site have done (gasser or CTD), no one has ever broken the front axle housing at the CAD area. A few have bent the tubes as they go into the diff housing, but nothing with the CAD. It might be a multi peice design but its strong.

9> You neglect to mention that not only is the 2-piece passenger side shaft EXTREMELY weak, but it AND the driver side shaft on a CAD Dodge axle are really only Dana 44-sized pieces. Talk about WIMPY!! That alone is more than enough reason to want to get rid of them given the potential of the Cummins motor.

The axle shafts neck down at the diff, true. I suppose if you want to talk about building a pulling truck then it matters. I still see more broken joints/ears than shafts busting at the neck down near the spider gears and none at the CAD

10> Why don't you link us to your website where the Ford swap requires only "minor mods". That would be very interesting reading.

My site is linked in my signature, its got a search function. But here is a link to the first or one of the first Ford 60 swaps into a second gen Ram (this artcle was orgiinally posted on my site in 99 or 00). Re-read my post, didnt say that it was a 'minor mod' situation, but that the mounts could be welded on after minor mods, implying that the mods were to the mounts as to make them fit the new axle.

Thanks for your input, but you and I will not be agreeing on much. Everyone else can make up their own minds.

looks like we wont be argeeing anytime soon, but you cannot dismiss my own epxeriences and those of others from my site with ten years of history

 

[SRath]

I'm not dismissing your views, but answer me this: Why does NO serious offroader or rockcrawler seek out a dodge psuedo dana 60 when building a serious custom offroad truck?



Answer: They are the MOST undesirable Dana 60 front axles ever built since the closed knuckle version first premiered years ago. (The Dana 50 and 61 axles are just as bad, but we're talking 60's)



Why? Because they are so weak in every regard from the pumpkin on out compared to a real Dana 60 like the old Chevy's and Dodges had. Both were superior to Ford's, especially the Chevy's.



Don't take my word for it: Pirate4x4. Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive



"Description:



The Dana 60 front axle is a heavy-duty 4wd front steering axle manufactured by Dana Spicer corporation. It was most commonly used in many one ton and some 3/4 ton pickup trucks.



Over the years there have been many different variations, from early Ford closed knuckle low pinion types, to the common GM kingpin low pinion, to the 94+ Dodge Dana 60 with a vacuum operated central axle disconnect, balljoints, and 32 spline inner shafts.



The most desirable axles for heavy duty 4x4 use in stock form have open kingpin knuckles, 35 spline inner axles, 30 spline outer axles (stub shafts), and disc brakes. Later model Ford high pinion (HP) Dana 60s with balljoints instead of kingpins are also desirable axles, though many prefer the kingpin knuckles over the balljoints.



The undesirable front Dana 60 axles will not be covered by this article, and include:



74-75. 5 Ford low pinion drivers side closed knuckle drum brake with 30 spline inners, 19 spline outers, small ujoints and weak knuckles.



75. 5-77 Ford low pinion drivers side open knuckle disc brake 30 spline inners, 19 spline outers, outer knuckle spindle pilot hole is smaller than 78+ axle and is therefore notched to allow 1480 series U-joint tp pass through.



94+ Dodge drivers side low pinion CAD unit bearing hub 32 spline 1. 31” coil sprung Dana 60s



Any other closed knuckle Dana 60, like those from a Jeep M715 that had coarse spline axles.

 

[SRath]

A 360 motor weighs a mere fraction of what a CTD does, and it's power output compared to a healthy Cummins is also a fraction. Now add bigger tires, deep, heavy, wet snow and 1000 lbs of snowplow hanging 4 feet past the front bumper and tell me the stock dana 60 is up to it. I have piles of expensive trashed parts that prove they aren't.

The stock axle is fine for the guy who just goes up and down the road and seldom needs it. But don't put it in any stressful situations on a regular basis. It was a cost-saving version of a once-legendary axle for the factory and cost-increasing hoax passed on to buyers who thought they were getting a truly heavy-duty pickup truck.

Kind of like Dodge's modern hemi motor...

 

[Pavemen]

I am a member of Pirate (been since before the big crash in 01) and there are several guys running the Dodge axles in their buggies or have converted to unit bearings. Granted they are lightweight buggies, but they are high revving, clutch dumping, front digging fully locked rigs with big tires.

I understand that the axle has issues, but they are not so bad as to fully dismiss the axle in a stock application even in a modded truck. No one wants to swap one into a different rig because there are better options out there, but its not a bad axle in the grand scheme of things.

If you have blown through so many parts on that axle of yours, have you considered how you are driving it? Perhaps you are simply exceeding the vehicle's capabilities and design criteria? Not trying to be rude, just asking.

In my 10 years of having an Dodge focused offroad site with a lot of CTD owners that wheel hard or plow a lot or hit the track or pull a sled I don't hear a lot about failed stock D60's. A few busted axle shafts and some wore out unit bearings over time but nothing major.

 

[SRath]

Fine. It's a great axle. Anybody who doesn't think so just doesn't know anything, including your Pirate 4x4 site that dared blaspheme it. If you break it, it's because you abused the truck and don't know how to drive.

That better?

 

[Pavemen]

sorry that I disagree with most of your points. i am simply putting my opinion an experiences out there, just as you are doing with yours.

i never said it was a great axle. i said that its not as bad as you are making it out to be in most circumstances. sure, its got its drawbacks but its a suitable axle in 99% of the cases.

hell, your beloved 78-79 high pinion, kingpin Dana 60 does not like being under a fullsize truck with 46" XMLs and lockers, so does that mean it sucks and should not be considered as a suitable axle for installing in other instances?

we all bash the Dmax and old 7. 3 PS engines here, but are they really that bad? They have issues and may not be as great as the CTD, but there are many on the road doing thier intended purpose just fine.

 

[Bunyan]

The late 02 dana 60 right axle works perfectly for elimimanting the cad and 2 piece axles on an 01. I don't know what other axles have thirty-two spline axles. An axle seal from the late 02 non-cad axle will work in the cad seal location. I've been using the 02 axle and seal for right at two years with no issues. I've posted pictures of the swap and adding the Dynatrac free spin hubs. Just do a search. Bunyan

 

[Ncostello]

So when looking for a late 2nd gen 4x4... is it wise to find a CAD equipped truck? This is if a person plans on keeping things stock.