Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) What's the best way to make 425 - 450 HP?

[mgoncalves]

My clutch lasted close to 10,000 miles with three's and a comp, but it did die, and it died hard.



But, to get your 400 horses, you're gonna need some big injectors with that EZ. I would go for some mach 4's or equivalent, 35/40 hybrid turbo, oh and one more time... . save some cash for a clutch, it will not last, especially towing.



Matt

 

[HeavyHauler]

OK guys - you're not doing me any favors by recommending a clutch to me. I asked about horsepower numbers, not what you guys think I will need to hold it.



So far the only recommendation that I've gotten that was within my parameters is adding Mach 4's and a Dodgezilla or equivalent.



Any other opinions about HORSEPOWER?



Thanks to everyone that posted something helpful.

 

[Hohn]

Matt, sorry for any contributions I may have made to the death of your clutch



Still running the secret squirrel injectors?



jlh

 

[mgoncalves]

Heavy Hauler,

We're just trying to help, we've all seen how devastating it is when you need a major repair that you weren't planning for. If your going to stick with your EZ, and don't want a major fueling box, then there isn't much choice but some big injectors and a slightly larger turbo to get you where you want to be.



Justin,

Not much of a secret really, seems like everyone's running Brady's hot sticks anymore . I was thinking of replacing them a while back, but now with his matching pump installed, there's not much chance of that. The guy really know's what he's doing with our fuel systems, you might even be impressed with how it runs now :-laf .



Matt

 

[HeavyHauler]

Heavy Hauler,

We're just trying to help, we've all seen how devastating it is when you need a major repair that you weren't planning for. If your going to stick with your EZ, and don't want a major fueling box, then there isn't much choice but some big injectors and a slightly larger turbo to get you where you want to be.

Well the way I see is if you aren't going to answer the question that was asked, just stay out of the discussion. That's one problem with the forums on here, people who really don't know anything about adding power but have heard through the vine that most people need a clutch upgrade get on here and spout off about something that's not even helping the situation. It seems like all HP threads turn into a clutch or transmission discussion.



All I asked was what injectors, turbo, etc. I need to make around 425HP. It's almost like people get on here and start talking off topic just to get an extra post or something, when they're not really helping at all.



OK, next question - would there be any adverse effects by adding Mach 4's over Mach 3's? I see that they are the same price but I'm sure there's got to be some differences in drivability.



Any thoughts?

 

[master1578]

I know I should stay out of this as I have no information that can benefit you. In reading this post however, I have seen many people who have been down this path offering their advice. What you choose to do with it is certainly your choice. I am not arguing with your belief in your clutch. However, your admonishment of those who took the time to reply seems to be unreasonable. Perhaps there was a misinterpretation of your original post when you wrote:

Does anyone see any problem with that or do you have any other suggestions?

 

[fox]

With the ijectors you have listed, you will be too hot and need a bigger turbo.

Also I thing your addition of power adders will get you close to the number you want---at the crankshaft--but not at the rear tires.

Rear tire/ dyno numbers are what most of us talk about.

Remember you will only see 190 or so at the tires stock. these numbers all require trans/clutch mods.

I was in the mid 3's when I melted the clutches in my auto.

It is possible that it was high 4's before I " gave up the chase" and went to smaller injectors.

It is more fun now. I don't have to watch the smoke and/or Pyro!!!

 

[Todd T]

Well you guys can say what you want to about a clutch, but the thing won't slip if it's not under a load. Maybe I should reiterate a few things - no towing and no showboating is in store for me.



Again, I'm not gonna put a fueling box on this thing just yet. I'm sticking with the EZ so perhaps I should lower my goal to between 400 - 425 HP.



I'm just going by simple addition with the upgrades I have planned. EZ=65HP, Mach 3's=130HP, and I figure a turbo will give me a few ponies as well. This should get me over 400 anyway. I just wanted to know if there was a better, safer way.



And PLEASE, no more clutch comments. I don't know why so many people on here think you've got to upgrade a clutch when you add power. I've worked with a lot of different vehicles from semis to race cars and other pickups. A stock clutch is a lot stronger than you think. Maybe all you guys tow or something but I'm not doing any towing right now.



So let's focus on what will get me to my horsepower goal - the last time I checked a clutch won't add any power!

I don’t care how many cars or semis you've worked on, its obvious you have NEVER driven a Dodge/Cummins truck with anything over 300hp or you would know a roll-on of the throttle in 5th or 6th gear will slip the clutch EMPTY! All you can do is let off. How do you plan to even evaluate how much power you have if your clutch wont even hold up to a simple dyno run?



Think about what you're saying before you say it! Reading between the lines it’s evident you don’t know what you're talking about. You don’t just simply add up each part and come to a total HP number



Maybe you can put some stickers on your truck and make it have even more HP. I hear a NOS sticker is worth 20HP! Two=40HP



Lets see, I have 180 hp injectors +120hp comp+ TWO turbos (they gotta be worth, what 50hp for the small one and 100HP for this really big one here. ) that totals... OOOH 695HP. yeah I have 695HP!



Funny thing is I have a clutch to prove it with and YOU don’t!

(I know that was over the line, but, geeezz, listen to yourself)



90HP over stock is all the clutch can take before it slips (especially in a 4wd dually, and yes that still EMPTY not towing). If you haven’t felt that sensation yet, you've got a loooooong way to go, Hans with no apostrophe!



when you're ready to comprehend the basics of building HP, post your questions and then listen, don't doubt.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

With just an EZ, AFE, FASS, I dynoed @ 274HP - 690 TQ. Just to get another 150 Horsepower, you may have to get a comp with injectors and a turbo. I dont know if you can just get another 150 ponies out of injectors and keep cool enough to still tow and play, I haven't tried that, yet... . lol

 

[PC12Driver]

Diesel Dynamics has their "Configurator" on their website. Put in what truck you have, your target horsepower level, and it'll list what you'll need to reliably put down those numbers. I think they list the part about what clutch they reccomend at the end of the list, so don't scroll down all the way.



There was a post a while back, I think from Peter @ SBC, who examined a handful of factory clutches and found some pretty serious inconsistancies in the factory clutch material. Some folks get lucky and get a good clutch, but the majority of us don't. Mine couldn't hang with the Mach 2s and an EZ. Although it could be that I don't know how to drive a clutch, as was suggested earlier in this thread...

 

[RCone]

anymore you don't get bragging rights with 425-450hp. Everybody's got that now. Why do you want to go there? If you were to tow at all 350rwhp is bout all you would need. There a lot of fast cars out there, don't tangle with them specially with a stick shift. As a matter of fact, don't tangle with an automatic truck either in that range. They will eat you alive.



Now on a more constructive note, go with a Hybrid turbo, DonM's 1. 5's and you should be around around 365rwhp. That should be enough don't you think?

 

[HeavyHauler]

Well it's obvious that someone can't get on here an post an opinion about something, and then know-it-alls like Todd T get on here and try to make people look stupid. So thanks for the reply, smartass.



I won't even bother checking this thread anymore, so say what you want to. Thanks to everyone who answered my question.

 

[Rman]

I've worked with a lot of different vehicles from semis to race cars and other pickups. A stock clutch is a lot stronger than you think. Maybe all you guys tow or something but I'm not doing any towing right now.

Now wait a minute here. You say something like this, and then ask a question about how to get 425 horsepower? Well there hero, 425 really isn't that hard. I'll bet you money that you cannot make that much power with a stock clutch. Maybe you can make figurative power like that, but when it comes down to measuring it you just can't do it with a stock clutch. There's a lot of guys around here with a lot of experience to be mouthing off how you worked on a semi before, or have seen a race track on TV. Quite frankly, if you know how diesels work you wouldn't be asking how to make horsepower, it's quite simple ... add fuel and air. You go ahead and figure out how to put it on the ground, we're all just stupid around here and don't have a clue.

 

[jaybigboy34]

OK guys - you're not doing me any favors by recommending a clutch to me. I asked about horsepower numbers, not what you guys think I will need to hold it.



So far the only recommendation that I've gotten that was within my parameters is adding Mach 4's and a Dodgezilla or equivalent.



Any other opinions about HORSEPOWER?



Thanks to everyone that posted something helpful.

Hey now, I told you to look at my sig. to see my setup. I dynoed 428rwhp without a major fueling box. I think a gave you a good recommendation.

 

[mcoleman]

I recently upgraded my nieghbors truck to an EZ and Mach 1. 2s. The clutch slipped the first time he shifted into 5th and that was taking it easy. Even a grade change on the highway would cause slippage and a downshift. Someone has no clue. Everyone on here that is telling you that you will need a clutch has a clue and has been there. 400hp is impossible to even dyno with a stocker if they get any load at all on the wheels. Low 300s is about as high as you can get and still use the power with a stock clutch unless you are planning on doing all of your driving in 1st-3rd gear.

 

[Hohn]

90HP over stock is all the clutch can take before it slips (especially in a 4wd dually, and yes that still EMPTY not towing).

Todd T with no apostrophe:



My truck dynoed 391hp/918 tq (fishy to me, too, but it's safe to say I'm comfortably more than 90hp over stock).



My stock clutch STILL holds after 29K miles of city driving at this hp level.



Yes, it WILL die eventually. But the bottom line is that there is a LOT of variation from one truck to the next vis'-a-vis' the clutch's holding power. Making absolute statements and insulting other members only hurts your credibility in the long run.



Yes, one should always assume they will need a clutch. That's not to say that they WILL in fact need one the instant the installation of larger injectors is accomplished. Anecdotal evidence suggests that you simply can't count on your clutch holding 330hp or so.



But you can't count on it NOT holding, either. Just be prepared if it doesn't.





Justin (also with no apostrophe)

 

[Jetpilot]

Mach 4's, EZ, and a good turbo should get you around 400HP - 425HP. I don't have any direct experience with a Dodgezilla turbo but if you would run a B-1 size trubo it will provide plenty of air and be durable..... You should also be real close to the same HP level running a PDR40.



Without the turbo upgrade you will be below you HP expectation and above egt limitations.



Doug

 

[Rman]

Todd T with no apostrophe:



My truck dynoed 391hp/918 tq (fishy to me, too, but it's safe to say I'm comfortably more than 90hp over stock).



My stock clutch STILL holds after 29K miles of city driving at this hp level.



Yes, it WILL die eventually. But the bottom line is that there is a LOT of variation from one truck to the next vis'-a-vis' the clutch's holding power. Making absolute statements and insulting other members only hurts your credibility in the long run.



Yes, one should always assume they will need a clutch. That's not to say that they WILL in fact need one the instant the installation of larger injectors is accomplished. Anecdotal evidence suggests that you simply can't count on your clutch holding 330hp or so.



But you can't count on it NOT holding, either. Just be prepared if it doesn't.





Justin (also with no apostrophe)

Justin did you dyno at your present altitude in wyoming? If so, those are impressive numbers!

 

[Bob Wagner]

CaTCHER and Mach 4's and DOdgezilla 401/833 and a kick to drive too. low end power buts the ez to shame

 

[joaker]

Well..... that was a fairly heated debate, and after the dust settled, the guy who asked the question has stomped off, and I think the general concensus was that a clutch would likely be a neccesary ingredient in his hp recipe. At a dyno day which we were part of not more than maybe a week ago, a friend of mine with an 03 dually 1 ton 4x4, double stacked, turbo, intake, exhaust, and small injectors was only able to hit 387 rwhp before the dreaded clutch slip occurred, this is a pretty new, low mile truck too, so congrats to all who tried to help, we can't win them all.