Maybe for you. I would argue owning a truck for the sole purpose of driving cross country on the interstate twice a year is not how most are "normally" driven.
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When is new transmission being released?
- Thread starter brillmtb1
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Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
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Maybe for you. I would argue owning a truck for the sole purpose of driving cross country on the interstate twice a year is not how most are "normally" driven.
Ozymandias
TDR MEMBER
Did someone recognize that the 8sp ZF 8hp70 is now around for 8 years and that we hear nothing but good about it?
Is it designed to handle over 1,000’# of TQ?
It gets close.
. In 2017, some 3.5 million 8HP transmissions were built for a laundry list of manufacturers that includes Aston Martin, BMW, Fiat Chrysler, Jaguar Land Rover, and the Volkswagen Group. Beyond performance, the eight-speed’s appeal is rooted in its versatile modular design. It can accommodate a maximum torque output from as low as 162 pound-feet up to 770
. In 2017, some 3.5 million 8HP transmissions were built for a laundry list of manufacturers that includes Aston Martin, BMW, Fiat Chrysler, Jaguar Land Rover, and the Volkswagen Group. Beyond performance, the eight-speed’s appeal is rooted in its versatile modular design. It can accommodate a maximum torque output from as low as 162 pound-feet up to 770
AEdelheit
TDR MEMBER
My X5 has the 8HP and its been solid, talked to a few people who have tuned them to pretty high HP and the trans still holds up well. Not a direct comparison to the demands of a HD truck but I trust ZF to build a durable transmission much more then Chrysler/AMC/Plymouth/Dodge/Ram/Fiat/Stelantis or whatever the name will be by next year......
Ozymandias
TDR MEMBER
The Diesel RAM will get another one, Medium Duty, for now knowen under the Name Powerline, we talked about that.
I just read yeasterday about the RAM line up and that the 8HP70 came in 2014, quite a long time ago.
I owned a semi with a 9 speed once and only once . Had 13 speeds before and after . Pulling a load with more gears to split just keeps you in the sweet spot better and the acceleration was quicker. That said my Aisin pulls great . Maybe not as quick as a 10 speed but good enough for me.
I would assume your Semi had a much tighter power band than the 6.7 Cummins.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
My 8V71 had a three hundred RPM power ban. 1900-2200 or maybe it was 1800-2100, it was the late 70's. Put it against the rev limiter and grab another gear in the RoadRanger 13 speed.
petersonj
TDR MEMBER
I am disappointed that there is no interest in bringing a dual clutch automatic transmission into the playing field for the Dodge Ram Cummins. An eight or ten speed would be perfect. The transmission is essentially a manual gearbox with odd numbered gears operated through one clutch and even numbered gears operated through the other clutch. The clutches are wet clutches on concentric input shafts inside the transmission.
The shifting can be fully automatic, or the transmission can be shifted and held into any gear manually with hardly any movement of the shifter. No torque converter, so no waiting for converter to lock or unlock during shifts. No torque management during shifts. Shifting at any throttle position is seamless. There is no power loss between shifts and the upshifts are silky smooth even under full power.
My wife had a 2006 1.9L TDI with a 6 spd dual clutch transmission (called a DSG for Direct-Shift Gearbox). That transmission made that high torque low rpm diesel shine. We now have a 2014 Passat 2.0L TDI with the same transmission. Peak torque from that engine is from 1500 rpm through 2500 rpm. Again, the transmission makes the engine perform like it is a more powerful engine.
Volkswagen and other vehicle manufacturers have been using these transmissions for years in many mokes and models of their vehicles.
- John
The shifting can be fully automatic, or the transmission can be shifted and held into any gear manually with hardly any movement of the shifter. No torque converter, so no waiting for converter to lock or unlock during shifts. No torque management during shifts. Shifting at any throttle position is seamless. There is no power loss between shifts and the upshifts are silky smooth even under full power.
My wife had a 2006 1.9L TDI with a 6 spd dual clutch transmission (called a DSG for Direct-Shift Gearbox). That transmission made that high torque low rpm diesel shine. We now have a 2014 Passat 2.0L TDI with the same transmission. Peak torque from that engine is from 1500 rpm through 2500 rpm. Again, the transmission makes the engine perform like it is a more powerful engine.
Volkswagen and other vehicle manufacturers have been using these transmissions for years in many mokes and models of their vehicles.
- John
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WHY????
I had a 2011, VW TDI Jetta with the DSG in the car. I now have a 2021 Hyundai Santa Fe with the DCT also. They are good transmission for their purpose of use in a light vehicle. They make these light vehicles and small displacement engines completive with other vehicles on the road when trying to acerate from a stop. Also, providing good fuel economy in use. With low out-put of torque of the Diesel/Gas engines in small light duty vehicles. But would the DCT/DSG transmission stand-up to the higher torques output that the Cummins engine can produce. Also why do I need the added complexity of a DSG/DCT transmission, just one more complex device to fail and cost $$ to repair.
I am sure that the R/D department of any vehicle manufacture is looking for ways to provide the best value for the money spent by the consumer on vehicle purchases. The DSG/DCT transmission may not meet the criteria of the manufacture that needs to provide warranty on these vehicles.
As an example, when I was working at Cat there was a lot of demand by the European dealers to install ZF transmission in tractors that were sold in the European market. Why? The dealers were hoping Cat would do that and then require ZF transmission to improve their quality and life of the transmission in heavy equipment. Since when the dealer ordered a custom shop tractor with the ZF in the vehicle. This said vehicle would not operate a year without a transmission failure. There was no extended warranty period on a custom shop vehicle. i can site example after example of poor preforming products that some manufactures installed and local dealers would try and get Cat to use the same component in production.
I had a 2011, VW TDI Jetta with the DSG in the car. I now have a 2021 Hyundai Santa Fe with the DCT also. They are good transmission for their purpose of use in a light vehicle. They make these light vehicles and small displacement engines completive with other vehicles on the road when trying to acerate from a stop. Also, providing good fuel economy in use. With low out-put of torque of the Diesel/Gas engines in small light duty vehicles. But would the DCT/DSG transmission stand-up to the higher torques output that the Cummins engine can produce. Also why do I need the added complexity of a DSG/DCT transmission, just one more complex device to fail and cost $$ to repair.
I am sure that the R/D department of any vehicle manufacture is looking for ways to provide the best value for the money spent by the consumer on vehicle purchases. The DSG/DCT transmission may not meet the criteria of the manufacture that needs to provide warranty on these vehicles.
As an example, when I was working at Cat there was a lot of demand by the European dealers to install ZF transmission in tractors that were sold in the European market. Why? The dealers were hoping Cat would do that and then require ZF transmission to improve their quality and life of the transmission in heavy equipment. Since when the dealer ordered a custom shop tractor with the ZF in the vehicle. This said vehicle would not operate a year without a transmission failure. There was no extended warranty period on a custom shop vehicle. i can site example after example of poor preforming products that some manufactures installed and local dealers would try and get Cat to use the same component in production.
bcbender
TDR MEMBER
Added complexity. Sure, 'cuz the average shade tree mechanic is capable of rebuilding a modern slush box 
DSG aren't new in MD/HD applications. Volvo truck has had iterations of one since the early 2000's. Eaton, Tremec, and ZF also have their own versions for MD/HD applications. No doubt cost plays a major role. Auto manufacturers are too consumed with adding $20k in fu fu fluff gadgetry that can't make it past the warranty period
DSG aren't new in MD/HD applications. Volvo truck has had iterations of one since the early 2000's. Eaton, Tremec, and ZF also have their own versions for MD/HD applications. No doubt cost plays a major role. Auto manufacturers are too consumed with adding $20k in fu fu fluff gadgetry that can't make it past the warranty period
Added complexity. Sure, 'cuz the average shade tree mechanic is capable of rebuilding a modern slush box
DSG aren't new in MD/HD applications. Volvo truck has had iterations of one since the early 2000's. Eaton, Tremec, and ZF also have their own versions for MD/HD applications. No doubt cost plays a major role. Auto manufacturers are too consumed with adding $20k in fu fu fluff gadgetry that can't make it past the warranty period
Yep - in HD applications, they're simply referred to as "two-pedal" trucks instead of "three-pedal". The Volvo I-Shift, ZF AS-Tronic, and Eaton Cummins UltraShift automated manuals have up to 18 speeds in HD models. Eaton and Cummins formed that 50/50 joint venture to produce automated manuals, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they're working on one that would mate to the Ram version of the B6.7.
Ozymandias
TDR MEMBER
But they are not DSG transmission's, they are simple automated unsynchronized manual transmissions with a dry clutch.
Which are great by the way, I drove the iShift for several y ars on a daily basis and wouldn't want to go back to a standard transmission.
Which are great by the way, I drove the iShift for several y ars on a daily basis and wouldn't want to go back to a standard transmission.
More gears is about keeping the engine in its productive range.
Have to distinguish between Metro/Regional and OTR.
Consumer light duty pickups are commuter-mobiles. They don’t go far, and they’re rarely loaded to capacity. Use of engine power is favored.
Long-distance max capacity work isn’t part of the vehicle spec.
Short rpm drops between gears are needed for OTR/Max Capacity. Not otherwise.
Doing oilfield hotshot (and not having to worry about state scale houses on some runs), one learned to work with what was available. After all, even in that hard work, the average speed (total trip time versus miles; engine hour calculation) is barely affected.
Greater numbers of gears have to pay. Complexity, initial expense, reliability and estimated savings.
Engine Power isn’t the problem. Adding gears where it isn’t necessary wouldn’t make sense.
Gas motors lack cylinder pressure. The name of the game when work has to be done. Keeping them at an optimal RPM is a requirement (and fuel burn reduction pays for it).
I run Texas to the upper Midwest or East Coast with outbound loads grossing 78k. Cummins X15. 8-speed (which cracks up my friends, and rightfully so). That’s a 41k load in the box.
A backhaul of 20-30k means the rig moves almost as if empty. Engine power isn’t a problem.
— Empty, or nearly so, this combined rig accelerates like a bat out of hell.
The 13 I’d prefer it wouldn’t be so (unless skipping gears all the way up; not a good idea long-term).
As a lease tractor it’s set up for Regional work where one isn’t ever far from home (my boss grabbed it as part of a group of 10s offered in a package deal).
Does it prevent me from making the same money? (Ha!). Is my average speed lower in hilly or mountainous terrain? (Yes; it would be UNLESS spec’d for that as a constant as with all other OTR tractor-trailers which are not upgrade-friendly).
I can plan an ascent (despite difficulty by failure by all 4-whlrs to do so), but that’s NOT important compared to the descent where fewer gears has to be reckoned. (As marked upgrades or downgrades aren’t a significant aspect; this is not of concern).
The difficulty (noted by others in above posts) is in maintaining a relative constant in heavy 3,4,5-lane traffic which is Metro-only. (In a pickup you just give it throttle; big truck MUST gear-change).
Average Speed just won’t pay in short-distance out & back runs (under 300-miles total).
One eases along below the flow of traffic never changing lanes, never using throttle or brakes. Low Risk, in all ways (which is also almost highest MPG per engine hour).
The automated manuals in big trucks with 12-gears ALWAYS have a “correct” gear choice as with a 13 manual. Any condition (relative to other spec). But it’s AERO that pays the freight rate. (My 8 is same as a 13 in non-stop work).
To whine more about a light duty pickemup, you’ll need to look at the TQ/RPM chart for an X15 versus an ISB (or whatever they call the latest 6.7). Full EEC and a variable-vane turbo make BOTH more capable than what was available circa 1995.
My ‘04 Triple Nickle with the mans trans does what needs to be done. I couldn’t care any less you pass me on an ascent, as I’ll pass you ALWAYS in the need for fuel (the combination that works).
Sure, it’s be nice to have an even higher SECOND OD gear for Solo, but it wouldn’t ever pay for itself.
I wonder (and not too hard) if the correlation between wanting more gears and lousy tire/brake life is high.
A Diesel engine is meant to WORK against a load. That’s a panty-twister for the 40-60k tires & brakes crowd.
Yet more proof a diesel pickup was their wrong choice. Dodge has to build these to fulfill the spec. And put up with the softball daddies (ATVs on a trailer) hauling ass down the Interstate. 20k in options and another 15k in aftermarket. (Clowns).
Show us using Engine Hr versus Odometer Miles over the past year where AVERAGE Speed was unduly affected by not having MOAR GEARS.
As to MPG, start with showing us the ABOVE 30-MPH average (mines 47) that you’ve REMOVED bad driver habits as a source of unnecessary fuel burn. (All miles divided by engine hours. You log all fuel purchased, right?).
At 58-mph on cruise control, level Interstate, what’s the TESTED 200-mile round-trip average MPG?
Never tested it, did you? (The spread between worst and best drivers — professionals — is nearly a third). The only MPG “problem” is the driver. Doesn’t know how bad he actually is, and has never taken steps to rectify even the worst of it, as he DOES NOT KNOW that which his truck is capable. (All MPG contests are against ones self).
That one-third spread among pro drivers from bad to acceptable is your “extra gears”. (And can be improved by simple aero).
“Up the hill . . “ (seriously?).
.
Have to distinguish between Metro/Regional and OTR.
Consumer light duty pickups are commuter-mobiles. They don’t go far, and they’re rarely loaded to capacity. Use of engine power is favored.
Long-distance max capacity work isn’t part of the vehicle spec.
Short rpm drops between gears are needed for OTR/Max Capacity. Not otherwise.
Doing oilfield hotshot (and not having to worry about state scale houses on some runs), one learned to work with what was available. After all, even in that hard work, the average speed (total trip time versus miles; engine hour calculation) is barely affected.
Greater numbers of gears have to pay. Complexity, initial expense, reliability and estimated savings.
Engine Power isn’t the problem. Adding gears where it isn’t necessary wouldn’t make sense.
Gas motors lack cylinder pressure. The name of the game when work has to be done. Keeping them at an optimal RPM is a requirement (and fuel burn reduction pays for it).
I run Texas to the upper Midwest or East Coast with outbound loads grossing 78k. Cummins X15. 8-speed (which cracks up my friends, and rightfully so). That’s a 41k load in the box.
A backhaul of 20-30k means the rig moves almost as if empty. Engine power isn’t a problem.
— Empty, or nearly so, this combined rig accelerates like a bat out of hell.
The 13 I’d prefer it wouldn’t be so (unless skipping gears all the way up; not a good idea long-term).
As a lease tractor it’s set up for Regional work where one isn’t ever far from home (my boss grabbed it as part of a group of 10s offered in a package deal).
Does it prevent me from making the same money? (Ha!). Is my average speed lower in hilly or mountainous terrain? (Yes; it would be UNLESS spec’d for that as a constant as with all other OTR tractor-trailers which are not upgrade-friendly).
I can plan an ascent (despite difficulty by failure by all 4-whlrs to do so), but that’s NOT important compared to the descent where fewer gears has to be reckoned. (As marked upgrades or downgrades aren’t a significant aspect; this is not of concern).
The difficulty (noted by others in above posts) is in maintaining a relative constant in heavy 3,4,5-lane traffic which is Metro-only. (In a pickup you just give it throttle; big truck MUST gear-change).
Average Speed just won’t pay in short-distance out & back runs (under 300-miles total).
One eases along below the flow of traffic never changing lanes, never using throttle or brakes. Low Risk, in all ways (which is also almost highest MPG per engine hour).
The automated manuals in big trucks with 12-gears ALWAYS have a “correct” gear choice as with a 13 manual. Any condition (relative to other spec). But it’s AERO that pays the freight rate. (My 8 is same as a 13 in non-stop work).
To whine more about a light duty pickemup, you’ll need to look at the TQ/RPM chart for an X15 versus an ISB (or whatever they call the latest 6.7). Full EEC and a variable-vane turbo make BOTH more capable than what was available circa 1995.
My ‘04 Triple Nickle with the mans trans does what needs to be done. I couldn’t care any less you pass me on an ascent, as I’ll pass you ALWAYS in the need for fuel (the combination that works).
Sure, it’s be nice to have an even higher SECOND OD gear for Solo, but it wouldn’t ever pay for itself.
I wonder (and not too hard) if the correlation between wanting more gears and lousy tire/brake life is high.
A Diesel engine is meant to WORK against a load. That’s a panty-twister for the 40-60k tires & brakes crowd.
Yet more proof a diesel pickup was their wrong choice. Dodge has to build these to fulfill the spec. And put up with the softball daddies (ATVs on a trailer) hauling ass down the Interstate. 20k in options and another 15k in aftermarket. (Clowns).
Show us using Engine Hr versus Odometer Miles over the past year where AVERAGE Speed was unduly affected by not having MOAR GEARS.
As to MPG, start with showing us the ABOVE 30-MPH average (mines 47) that you’ve REMOVED bad driver habits as a source of unnecessary fuel burn. (All miles divided by engine hours. You log all fuel purchased, right?).
At 58-mph on cruise control, level Interstate, what’s the TESTED 200-mile round-trip average MPG?
Never tested it, did you? (The spread between worst and best drivers — professionals — is nearly a third). The only MPG “problem” is the driver. Doesn’t know how bad he actually is, and has never taken steps to rectify even the worst of it, as he DOES NOT KNOW that which his truck is capable. (All MPG contests are against ones self).
That one-third spread among pro drivers from bad to acceptable is your “extra gears”. (And can be improved by simple aero).
“Up the hill . . “ (seriously?).
.
Last edited:
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Back Issues
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