Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Which hybrid is the best?

[Matthug]

I want to go with a hybrid with the 16 cm non-wastegated housing. I was looking at a few, I'm deciding between 3 of them. I was looking at the PDR HX35, HTT's stage 3 wheel, or this one on ebay which I believe also has HTT's stage 3 wheel-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8054647925&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

I emailed that one on ebay and they said it was a 60mm inducer and without the turbine housing they would sell it for $575 which I thought was a pretty good deal.

I can't put HTT's S3 wheel in my current turbo because it's an 02' HX35 so I would have to send it in and have machine work done. This truck is my DD so I can't have more than 1 day of down time which is just to swap out turbo's.

So really I'm deciding between PDR HX35 and this one on ebay, but leaning toward ebay right now. I do not know the specs of the PDR 35, I think it only has a 58mm inducer but can anybody comment on that? My goal for this truck is 400RWHP which I think is plenty doable for a hybrid with 16 housing. My bro did 375 RWHP on his stock HX35 with 12 housing, but it was WAY maxxed out. I figure with the 16 housing and larger compressor wheel it should be fine for 400. So does anybody have any comments on the PDR35 versus this ebay hybrid? Thanks!



EDIT-I am NOT considering the dodgezilla since it has too large of a compressor wheel and slow spool up.

 

[zstroken]

I think that a 16 cm housing on an HX35 would make for a slow spool up. Plus it isn't wastegated is it?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Matt I had the PDR35 with upgraded compressor & 16cm housing. It was an OK but not outstanding turbo, mostly because of the 16cm housing. I had it in my '01 HO and it did almost nothing for EGTs and spool was worse than stock. . . not bad but not great either. Later PDR recommended against using the 16cm on 24-valve.



I have an older DD Jammer on my '96, it's a lot bigger turbo but spools almost as well.



Vaughn

 

[pwerwagn]

The PDR 35 is a 58mm comp wheel, which according to piers, is used to reduce surge. The 60mm comp wheel I think is the most common, which I believe is what the Dodgezilla uses. I havent heard of many with a 62mm. I think the 16cm and the 60mm would make an ok combo, but not ideal. You wont lower your EGT drastically, for the price involved.



I would personally think that if you're gonna spend 575$, plust at least $100 for the 16cm^2 housing, and then 30$ shipping (700$ total) you'd be better off just buying a regular Schwitzer S300G. It will spool good, flow better and you'll probably be happier with it.

Or, just stick with your 35 and run water/meth or N2O. you will keep your stock driveability, and cool the EGT's down more than the 35/40 will.

I've heard of one truck that made right at 500hp with the stock 35, I dunno if he was running water or not...

And I think Fulmer eclipsed the 500hp mark with the stock 35 also and water...





--Jeff

 

[Matthug]

I'm already running the 16 on a stock HX35 from a 24v. Spool-up with the 16 is excellent I think, barely any different than the 12 above 1500 RPM. Below 1500 I can belch the smoke a little better, but it still spools to my satisfaction. My main concern is highway EGT's, I used to run 10-16 PSI at 70 now I run 4-8 so my EGT's are at 800-900 or so going down the highway when it used to be 600-700. I would think a larger compressor wheel would atleast yield similar spool-up since it should be able to build boost faster but it weighs a little more so it will cancel it out? Is that thinking accurate?

So anyway since I already have the 16cm housing it would just be $575. I thought about the HTBG but I would also need a downpipe so tack on an extra $175 for that and you're at double the price of the hybrid from ebay. One question though, would spool up be very slow with a 14 housing on an HTBG? I hate corking the exhaust side, but would a 12cm housing be good enough for 400 RWHP on an HTBG?

The dodgezilla I heard uses a 63mm inducer, it's huge thats all I know and it's so heavy it creates a good bit of lag.

Vaughn what are the specs of that jammer turbo? I don't know anything about it at all. Thanks

 

[zstroken]

I don't think that a 14 on an HTBG would be that bad, but I would think a 12 would be adequate for 400. One thing to remember is that most of the 35's have there wastegates blocked, on the HTT stuff the wastegate is still functioning so it will not reduce the exhaust side as much. In my signature I am running a 12cm housing and I don't have ay EGT issues, granted I am running the higher flowing compressor. I would think to hit 500HP with the 35 even with water and/or H20 you would be really turning the 35 at some serious rpm. Of course you could use a solenoid on the wastegate to let it open at say 35PSI or so to help reduce some of the shaft speed, but I would still think that it is really screamin.

 

[Matthug]

Nah I'm not interested in water injection or anything like that.

I may still think about an HTBG but when you figure in downpipe it's twice the price and a hybrid is plenty capable for my needs. Once I get a turbo figured out, my delivery valves in, and timing at 16 I am done with Bomb's. The only thing I may do in the future if I fall short of 400 is get stage 3 DD or DDP injectors.

 

[Dual EE]

I am running a DZ w/12 housing and yes it's a bit slower spooling than my stocker was. But just barely slower. It also has a 60 mm wheel not a 63.



When I was running 300 injectors and the stock turbo they worked well together. After adding the 370's the stock turbo was unable to keep the egt's under 1200* during any hard acceleration. The DZ allows me to stay on throttle much longer then w/the HX35.

 

[pwerwagn]

Vaughn what are the specs of that jammer turbo?

A Jammer is a Diesel Dynamics Sleeve Bearing HX-40.

I would think to hit 500HP with the 35 even with water and/or H20 you would be really turning the 35 at some serious rpm.

Im sure it would!!! I bet it would be on the verge of exploding at any time, and upgrading to a larger charger would net a lot of hp. I also bet a HX35 would create some SEROIUS drive pressure at 500hp!!

All I know, is it has been done. I wouldnt do it though!! Heck, my EGT's are outta control in the high 300hp hp range!!!





--Jeff

 

[Matthug]

My bro maxxed out his HX35/12 at 375 RWHP on his 02' ETH. There was so much drivepressure the wastegate wouldn't flow enough to keep it below 42 PSI. Just swapping to HTT's HX40 he got over 400 RWHP and 300 cooler EGT's at 34 PSI boost.



What kind of boost can hybrids run? Like I know that an HX35 is only efficient to about 35 PSI, whats the 60mm wheel good for? I only ask because of running a non wastegated turbine housing and I don't want to overspin the turbo.

 

[pwerwagn]

Well, alot of that depends on what altitude you are at. The higher altitude, the higher your PR will be at the same boost level. Its not really necessarily the boost you are tunning, but the PR/rpm that it is running at.



but most folks say around 35 for a HX35, and the hybrid is being ran by many in the low 40's. There is one guy around here that has his setup with a 14cm housing (wastegated) and he is running his at 40psi.



I would think a great setup would be a 60 or 62mm comp wheel, joined with a 14cm wastegated housing that is massaged. I would think that if you milled the passage to 35 or 40mm, modd'd to gate all 6 cylinders and not just 3, and set the gate to open around 38-40 psi it would work good for a mild mod'd motor.

 

[Matthug]

I'm actually below see level where I'm at.

I already have the 16 housing so thats what I'm gonna run, no point in spending $400+ for 100 RPM faster spool-up and IMO top end breathing is more important.

 

[zstroken]

I think a wastegated 14 would outflow a 16 non wastegated.

 

[Matthug]

Enough to make it worth $300 more? It would defeat the purpose of me running a hybrid because if I went with the 14 I would spend just as much as an HTBG is and that is a better turbo than a hybrid. So I'm just gonna run the 16.

 

[zstroken]

Kinda sounds like you already have your mind made up. We are just offering our opinions. Me personally I would try to ditch the charger you have and use that money towards an s300 based one. I haven't sold any HTBGs. Most people just go to the HTB2 so they have room to grow. 62/12 in my setup spools very well and keeps things cool too.

 

[Matthug]

Kinda sounds like you already have your mind made up. We are just offering our opinions. Me personally I would try to ditch the charger you have and use that money towards an s300 based one. I haven't sold any HTBGs. Most people just go to the HTB2 so they have room to grow. 62/12 in my setup spools very well and keeps things cool too.

Did I ever ask what turbine housing to use? No. I asked about compressor wheels with the 16cm housing. Yeah I have my mind made up that I'm running the 16 housing because I already have it. Ever since the first post you made in my thread you go off into tangents that have nothing to do with what I asked. Your opinion doesn't even matter much to me, the very first post you made you said that you ''think'' that a 16 housing on a 35 would be slow spool up. Well I'm already running the 16 on my stock 35 and spool up is excellent, barely noticeable I changed the housing except it pulls harder up top, so it kinda discredits your opinions all-together. And don't say ''our'' opinions, because your opinions don't even compare to the other 3 people that replied here. They all explained about their REAL WORLD experiences, every you said started with I THINK.

 

[zstroken]

My apology

Did I ever ask what turbine housing to use? No. I asked about compressor wheels with the 16cm housing. Yeah I have my mind made up that I'm running the 16 housing because I already have it. Ever since the first post you made in my thread you go off into tangents that have nothing to do with what I asked. Your opinion doesn't even matter much to me, the very first post you made you said that you ''think'' that a 16 housing on a 35 would be slow spool up. :

I apologize for offering you advice and offending you. You did mention compressor wheels, but the post was which hybrid was best.

Do you want me to tell you that it is slow?? Talk to someone who just had an HX50 on their truck and the combo you mention would be fast spooling to them. Talk to someone who is running an HY9 and the combo you mention would be a dog to them. Spooling speed is such a relavent term everyone has a different version that is why I use I think. You do say that once it reaches XXX rpm it spools like a rocket. Heck once my HX50 lit that thing spooled like mad of course it was about 1900rpm. I guess I am just the person who if is going to do somethign right I only want to spend my money once. Not spend something less figure out it isn't what I want then turn around and spend something more.

Well I'm already running the 16 on my stock 35 and spool up is excellent, barely noticeable I changed the housing except it pulls harder up top, so it kinda discredits your opinions all-together.

how does that discredit what I said? Have you put a wastegated 14 on it yet? I have two 18 mm layin in my garage somewhere

And don't say ''our'' opinions, because your opinions don't even compare to the other 3 people that replied here.

Matt I read what they posted it seems that Vaughn agrees with me on the 16 cm housing and pwerwagn agreed about the 14 cm wastegate housing.

So I apologize for offering you "my" opinions. I never told you what you were doing was wrong or wouldn't work. I have been where you are at. Debated what charger to use. Looked at doing the holset hybrids. I just didn't want you to have to do this turbo thing twice. On my daily driver spoolup is very important to me, and I don't like the non wastegated turbo systems. This bombing thing can be a problem, I am on my third set of aftermarket injectors on my 24V and what is sad was I looked at the set I have now, back in the beginning I would never have dreamed of having in my truck. Good luck.

 

[Matthug]

Anybody can look at my sig and make a judgement call on how much fuel I'm running and what turbo I need, there's no need for you to compare somebody running an HY35 or an HX50 because obviously neither are at the power level I am at. I said that it spools like the stock 12cm housing above 1500 but a little sluggish below 1500 but not too bad. I gave that info for you to draw a conclusion on what I felt was good and/or acceptable spool up.

It discredits what you said because what you said was wrong! When I swapped to the 16 I was way pleasently surprised on the very very little change in spool up. You said I would think that a 16 would make spool up slow, well it didn't.

Vaughn did not say the same thing you did about the 16 housing. Also vaughn had his on a 24v which is pretty different. And pwerwagn said that a worked 14cm housing would be better than a 16 not a straight out 14.

 

[zstroken]

Great! Best of luck with your charger, not really worth arguing about. I guess your wanting to hear I was wrong so here it is. I was totally way off on this, please disregard everything I said. As long as your happy with your selection, that is all that matters.

 

[JO'Leary]

Anybody can look at my sig and make a judgement call on how much fuel I'm running and what turbo I need, there's no need for you to compare somebody running an HY35 or an HX50 because obviously neither are at the power level I am at. I said that it spools like the stock 12cm housing above 1500 but a little sluggish below 1500 but not too bad. I gave that info for you to draw a conclusion on what I felt was good and/or acceptable spool up.

It discredits what you said because what you said was wrong! When I swapped to the 16 I was way pleasently surprised on the very very little change in spool up. You said I would think that a 16 would make spool up slow, well it didn't.

Vaughn did not say the same thing you did about the 16 housing. Also vaughn had his on a 24v which is pretty different. And pwerwagn said that a worked 14cm housing would be better than a 16 not a straight out 14.

Sounds like you have already made up your mind, why come hear and ask for opinons and then jump all over the people that are trying to help.

GOOD LUCK :--)