White smoke at startup

[Andy]

My 04. 5 Looks and sounds like some radial aircraft motor on startup these cold (20 F) mornings. I had it back at the dealers 2 months ago and they re-flashed the computer. It didn't seem like it made too much difference but I thought I would wait till it got cold. If I idle up to about 1200 RPM it goes away pretty quickly but not before it looks like a mosquito fogger gone wild! When I take it back I would like to know if there are other things they should look at to solve the problem? Does anyone know why this problem exsists? We have had 2 Fords and this is the third Dodge in the family along with several diesel farm tractors. This has never been an issue with the other diesels. Has anyone else had this issue after the re-flash. I would like to be more informed when I take it in this next time ! Any information on why it does this and what the fixes are would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[RMarkey]

I've had the reflash and still I make half the block dissapear every morning. I also have other diesels and drive them everyday, mine is the only one that does this, and is the 2nd newest of them all. Mine also knocks and sounds like an old gasser throwing a rod. Let me know if you figure anything out, my neighbors would appreciate it greatly.

 

[p-Bar]

How does the dealer know the reflash took

 

[Maverick]

fuel it up add 1 can of powerservice @ DRIVE IT ! don't waste your time with the ******* my 04 did the same after months of around town driving . check your hour meter mine was (26 mph for a year average lots of idle time) I ran it hard with 5000 on trailer for a week no and its alot better.

 

[tobaccogrower]

how do you check your hour meter? thanks... . james

 

[Andy]

I regularly pull around my Bobcat(6500lbs) and truck dosen't idle very much. What is powerservice? As far as seeing if re-flash took... . I will check but I think they verify by looking at the version as the mechanic indicated that the re-flash was 12 versions later from what was originaly installed.

What about components which might not be up to snuff (sensors... . Computer etc. )

Also, where is the Hr. meter... . that would be interesting.

Andy

 

[tractorseller]

fuel it up add 1 can of powerservice @ DRIVE IT ! don't waste your time with the ******* my 04 did the same after months of around town driving . check your hour meter mine was (26 mph for a year average lots of idle time) I ran it hard with 5000 on trailer for a week no and its alot better.

I've been pulling tractors with mine at mostly freeway speeds and this "winter" (if you can call it that in southern AZ) it suddenly started making knocking noises, idling rough, and belching white smoke on a cold startup. It didn't do any of this last winter, just the clicking on and off of the heater. I'll try the Power Service and see what happens. I hate to take it to the local Village Idiots here in Tucson so they can screw it up worse.

 

[Tony T.]

how do you check your hour meter? thanks... . james

TG

Turn your key ignition to "on" position do not start the truck, looking at your odometer reading hold down your trip meter button the display will go to trip miles continue to hold down button for 6 seconds and the hours will be displayed. This is for 3G trucks though.



Andy

Power Service Diesel Kleen (gray bottle) a fuel additive product for diesels you can get at say Walmart along with other automotive places. The white bottle PS has anti-gel though. I use the gray bottle every fill up.

 

[RaymondSmith]

I've had the flash done on mine. Runs and sounds good when cold but it does puff the white smoke. Looks like the steam you get from a gasser exhaust on a cold day. Being that all else is good except for the smoke I'm not going to worry too much about it. It is probably just the nature of the beast.

 

[RBell]

Hey guys! My truck started spewing the white smoke on start up around 15000 miles. From what I've read on various Cummins sights it seems there are some issues with the fuel injectors dripping some fuel into the cylinders during engine down time. Mine will blow white smoke after sitting for 6 plus hours and if the temperature is high enough the grid heaters don't cycle. It seems strange to me but since it's been down in the 20's every night I have no smoke when the grid heaters cycle. ROB

 

[Maverick]

village Idiot :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[tractorseller]

I guess I'll let the dealer screw it up worse...

The diesel additives didn't do a thing for mine. I ran about 100 gallons of fuel through it pulling a fifth wheel with 2 quarts of the Power Kleen (gray bottle). It still knocks and belches the white smoke when I start it up cold. Has just over 14,000 on it. I guess I'm off to the village idiots :{ here in Tucson unless somebody knows of a cure for this. The white smoke doesn't bother me much, but the knocking and extremely rough idle do bother me.



Anybody know if Jim Click or Bill Breck here in Tucson has a clue how to work on the Cummins???

 

[cerberusiam]

The 04 and early 05 trucks had more than a few issues with bad injectors on them. STAR has a whole set of test the dealers should run to isolate the problem. If you are still under warranty TAKE IT IN and insist they run the tests. Cummins has stated any more than 1 minute of white smoke on cold startup indicates a problem and if you run the rpm's up to a 1000 or so it should clear up almost immediately. If it does not there is more than likely an injector problem even if the flash for white smoke has been done. My late 05 will throw a little smoke when the temps drop into the 20's or 30's but it will clear within 30 seconds at an idle or immediately if I run the idle up to 1000 rpm's.



These engines should not knock or rattle at an idle or under a load. If you are hearing a hard rattle at idle or under acceleration it is more than likely an injector problem. Do a search on the posts hear and you will find plenty of reading on all the previous problems. The solution for some was a new set of injectors even though the dealer test showed no problems. A sticky or miss firing injector is hard to diagnose and won't always show with a kill test, but, they will almost always exhibit either white smoke at times and a knock/rattle that should not be there.



Due to the injector problems STAR has gotten really ticky tack about replacements and requires a battery of test to be run. Even then they may or may not authorize replacements so be prepared to do a little battle or find a dealer that will work for your benefit. The results of not fixing these problems could very likely destroy your engine. There have problems from scored pistons, washed down cylinders, an engine or 2 filled with diesel while, running, and blown motors. If nothing else get it documented the dealer and/or STAR cannot find or duplicate the problems. That way if the engine goes you have a leg to stand on when STAR says you were at fault for not recognizing a problem. Good luck.

 

[RMarkey]

Hey tractorseller, let me know if they find anything out on yours. I use the powerservice on every fillup and have for a while and still the symptoms. I don't tow much heavy stuff, only cars and truck on occation, so I can't run 'er hard and see if that old saying holds true. I always just kinda hoped it had something to do with the altitude up here and something was a little off, but your not all that high down there so that shoots that hope. Let me know please, my neigbors are getting tired of "the annoying smoke that burns their eys and nose. " We also have a lot of tree huggers that would love to hang me out to dry.



PS. Mine doesn't do it as bad when it's been plugged in.

 

[tractorseller]

ATTN Tucson Guys: Bill Breck or Jim Click? Any advice?

I'll call the dealer Monday morning and take it in. I've noticed that it seems to be getting worse. I'm right at 2,600 ft elevation here at my house and it only gets into the 30's here for the most part.



Thanks for the info guys. I really appreciate you taking the time. I'll push them on the injector issue and see how far I get. I won't hold my breath though because I bought this truck in Oklahoma and the first question I get on every vehicle I take in to a non-service department here in Tucson is "Did you buy the truck from us?" I think that's code for "We're going to push you to the back of the line, say we can't duplicate the problem, lie to you, and treat you like crap. " On second thought, they do that on the vehicles I buy from them too!



I'll post an update when I get through screaming at the non-service advisor pinheads.



A Duramax that I had to force GM to buy back under the Lemon Law. Another Duramax I sold and probably should have kept (hated the transmission though), and now this with the Cummins. I'm thinking about begging Toyota to build a big diesel truck. I'll never buy that Ford ShowerStroke (parts and fluids showering your driveway) in a million years.

 

[tractorseller]

Hey tractorseller, let me know if they find anything out on yours. I use the powerservice on every fillup and have for a while and still the symptoms. I don't tow much heavy stuff, only cars and truck on occation, so I can't run 'er hard and see if that old saying holds true. I always just kinda hoped it had something to do with the altitude up here and something was a little off, but your not all that high down there so that shoots that hope. Let me know please, my neigbors are getting tired of "the annoying smoke that burns their eys and nose. " We also have a lot of tree huggers that would love to hang me out to dry.



PS. Mine doesn't do it as bad when it's been plugged in.

I have to deliver a couple of tractors to Cornville and Flagstaff this week (if my truck's running) so if it blows when I get to altitude up Black Canyon freeway I'll let you know you definitely have an altitude problem :-laf .

 

[p-Bar]

Don't let them "Jack you" If they don't fix fix it (give them the oppurtunity first) then if they don't make an appointment to see the district service mgr. at the dealer. That will bring their heart rate up. It shouldn't matter where you bought it they get paid well and fast for warranty work. Be sure you ask if they have a adviser just for the diesel's. Good luck, May the force be with you

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

White smoke = Bad injectors

My 04. 5 Looks and sounds like some radial aircraft motor on startup these cold (20 F) mornings. I had it back at the dealers 2 months ago and they re-flashed the computer. It didn't seem like it made too much difference but I thought I would wait till it got cold. If I idle up to about 1200 RPM it goes away pretty quickly but not before it looks like a mosquito fogger gone wild! When I take it back I would like to know if there are other things they should look at to solve the problem? Does anyone know why this problem exsists? We have had 2 Fords and this is the third Dodge in the family along with several diesel farm tractors. This has never been an issue with the other diesels. Has anyone else had this issue after the re-flash. I would like to be more informed when I take it in this next time ! Any information on why it does this and what the fixes are would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

Andy,



I had seven injectors replaced over a month and a half timeframe. They will test and test and test and replace and replace but it seemed to me it was a trial and error procedure at best and was to satisfy STAR as they have to go the route STAR demands to replace $500-$800 injectors each!! I've heard those prices from guys on this forum in the past. You got it,... they're expensive. Anyway the good news is that it's been over a year now and NO white smoke. When someone tells you it's the nature of these trucks they are DEAD wrong. It will have zero white smoke if they are running properly. One bad note is that at least on my truck all the replacements were factory rebuilds and not new injectors. You'll know because the part number starts with an R = Rebuilds! I can't really complain though as they run great and I've not had the problem since. They will want to keep the truck for days to evaluate the problem. The best idea I wound was to take it in on a Friday and let it sit over the weekend as the longer it sits the more it smokes. Let them start it on Monday morning and fog out their lot. Then they'll say,. . "yep, there is a problem alright"!! Then they have to get with STAR and start the whole ball rolling. I told them to get me a rent car and don't call me until this sucker has zero smoke on startup. For me that took a month and a half as one of the new ones shot craps also. I had the reflash and it didn't help a bit. I can't recall exactly since it's been a year and a bit since it happened but the reflash takes some of the timing out of your truck and it doesn't run quite as well afterwards,... or so someone on the forum told me at the time and I think he worked at a dealership, fyi. Good luck.

 

[tractorseller]

Bill Breck (now TUCSON DODGE) are a bunch of........

rude morons. Called their non-service department this morning. Got a lady non-service advisor to finally answer the phone after going through all the recorded messages. I start out by politely telling her my door seals are torn and inquire as to if they have them in stock because I don't want to leave my truck in there any longer than necessary. She VERY rudely and impatiently cuts me off mid-sentence and interjects "What's your question?" At this point my blood pressure goes up instantly and I tell her I don't have a "question", I have a truck under warranty with torn door seals and a smoke-rough idle problem that needs to be fixed. She tells me "You'll have to call our parts department to see if they have the door seals in stock, then call me back if you want to make an appointment. " I tell her that's fine and we both hang up. I didn't call her back because I didn't want to say something I'd regret. I despise rude obnoxious people. I'm not exaggerating her behavior one bit. She was that bad. She did sweeten up noticeably after I let her have it but I was already ticked off by then.



I call Jim Click Dodge, get a very polite service advisor, go over all the problems, he checks and tells me he has the door seals in stock (what? I don't have to call the "parts" department myself to do that?) and I'm taking it in next Monday. He did say that "Chrysler" is a real bear to deal with on the injectors and they make the dealer run all kinds of tests. Sounds like you guys are right about that.



I'll post an update after my truck gets fixed. I won't be using Tucson Dodge for any repairs, purchases, or anything else. I have no idea how people stay in business when they treat people like that.

 

[Van Blom]

I used RED LINE diesel injector cleaner and It fixed all the problems Oo.