Who are 3rd party FCA inspectors?

[lpennock]

I had a valve head break off on a Harley one time. Bounced a few times in the cylinder and wedged back in the port. Maid a mess of the piston.

 

[Timd32]

Have you tried out the Quick Serve website recently and register your ESN.

I know they changed it a bit, so dig around and see what you find, or post up or PM the ESN to someone with decent access can look that stuff up and print it out.

Get the part number if able for what they are putting in, backwards engineer the thing.

Good luck with your fix, hope they can get you back up and running soon.

 

[BigPapa]

 

[bcbender]

Well from that list it seems like all the important bits are included... Turbo would be the only psc I would confirm didnt get metal in it.. If it did, I would also ask about the SCR/DPF if metal bits ended up that far down.

 

[endoscott]

Will keep everyone posted as it goes along. They have to lift the cab to do the exchange. Or at least that makes it a lot easier I guess.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

@endoscott you're not alone, this sort of engine damage happens all the time.
Great pic showing a broken off valve head and the piston it attacked. Looks more like a brigs & stratton or motorcycle piston though...
#ad

 

[endoscott]

Great pic! Last motor we broke like this was a 63 Corvair van, rear engine flat 6 and aircooled. Drove it like that all way the back from Idaho over the pass to Tacoma. This was 1972. Valve seat fell out but the other 5 cylinders were "good enough". I think aluminum heads IIRC. Found another Corvair motor in a buddy's back yard out of a sedan and put that one in. Ran fine. I think we sold it to some hippie for $300 or something like that. None of my Hondas or Toyotas ever broke anything.

 

[sag2]

Since #6 failed, you better have them check the grid heater nut. When it gets loose number 6 is where it ends up. A spring failure would be pretty rare. It would be nice to see a photo of the broken spring, if that is what actually happened.
The inspectors are sometimes retired area managers and technical advisors. They almost always have a pretty good technical background.

 

[endoscott]

It looks like they are giving us re-man engine so everything should be good. I wonder if Cummins does an autopsy when they get one of these back. If I was a Cummins engineer I would find that very interesting.

 

[BigPapa]

Are you aware that the engines in our trucks have no warranty through Cummins? Once the engine is sold to FCA, Cummins pretty much has nothing to do with it, with very few exceptions.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

It looks like they are giving us re-man engine so everything should be good. I wonder if Cummins does an autopsy when they get one of these back. If I was a Cummins engineer I would find that very interesting.

No, they won't take the time or go to the expense of worrying about why it failed. They will just send it to the reman shop for a core, salvage whatever they can from it, scrap anything not reusable.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

Since #6 failed, you better have them check the grid heater nut. When it gets loose number 6 is where it ends up. A spring failure would be pretty rare. It would be nice to see a photo of the broken spring, if that is what actually happened.

Not as rare a failure as you think.
His description of the failure was nearly identical to mine when it had a valve spring break, difference being that when his failed the valve and piston clashed enough to break the valve head off, where mine only kissed the piston and didn't do all that catastrophic damage.

 

[endoscott]

I think when it got taken apart the pieces of valve spring just fell out, I didn't see anywhere when I looked around. Will check later on but I think they either fell on the floor somewhere or got tossed in the recycle bin. Would have liked to have a picture when they first took of valve cover but I have been bugging them so much as it is. Man, Lithia Dodge/Ram in Eugene Oregon is an awesome dealership at least on the parts and service side. They have been super organized and on-the-ball, good old-fashioned American service. Breath of fresh air.

 

[endoscott]

Big Papa, I was just expressing how I would feel if I was a Cummins engineer, I would want to see the failures. You learn nothing from the successful engines.
I know corporate America just doesn't give 2 shots about anything anymore, except bottom lines, but somehow in my fantasy world it seemed perhaps Cummins would "care" more....and that could translate to a better bottom line somehow for them, plus the satisfaction of learning something. I must be nuts.

 

[Wiredawg]

I think a LOT of the cause analysis is performed by the folks who take it apart and report fact related to the case... the 3rd party person and FCA (or whatever they're called now) makes the decision based upon that analysis and recommendation. I would think any time big $$ are involved, there is interest and although just my guess, I imagine there is active information sharing between one of Cummins biggest customers.

Just throwing another guess on the pile.

Cheers, Ron.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Big Papa, I was just expressing how I would feel if I was a Cummins engineer, I would want to see the failures. You learn nothing from the successful engines.
I know corporate America just doesn't give 2 shots about anything anymore, except bottom lines, but somehow in my fantasy world it seemed perhaps Cummins would "care" more....and that could translate to a better bottom line somehow for them, plus the satisfaction of learning something. I must be nuts.

Yep, your nuts, just like me. I also feel like they should inspect failures more carefully but the fact of matter is this engine has been around so long they already know the important failure modes and your valve breakage is a rare occurrence.

This is a broken valve spring from a Yamaha F300 outboard. A touch over 1k hours of run time and propped correctly. Part just broke. Yamaha wasn't interested in the least.

 

[endoscott]

Surprised Yamaha wouldn't look at that. If nothing else out of curiosity! Did it ruin the whole motor or were you able to rebuild it? I had a Yamaha 115 on my 1989 Wooldridge Alaskan jetsled with probably 1500 hours. Still ran fine with perfect compression when I sold it a couple years ago (no more fish in the Snoqualmie River!). Had a couple of those old 500 CC Yamaha Waverunners, also freakin' bulletproof. I mean teenage kids thrash things and they never quit on us. Kind of wish I still had those things.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Surprised Yamaha wouldn't look at that. If nothing else out of curiosity! Did it ruin the whole motor or were you able to rebuild it? I had a Yamaha 115 on my 1989 Wooldridge Alaskan jetsled with probably 1500 hours. Still ran fine with perfect compression when I sold it a couple years ago (no more fish in the Snoqualmie River!). Had a couple of those old 500 CC Yamaha Waverunners, also freakin' bulletproof. I mean teenage kids thrash things and they never quit on us. Kind of wish I still had those things.

Dropped the valve and things got ANGRY! Customer was 1 month out of his commercial 1 year warranty and they told him to pound sand. He had to purchase a new powerhead to the tune of 14k.

 

[Tuesdak]

I must be nuts.

No, not at all. I am actually amazed that FCA Cummins got away from the CP4. Other engines and OEM's still have to suffer with it. Likely the warranty and lemon cost brought it to their attention. Some other changes like a redesigned HVAC box to cool hot customers down is also of note.

I know you just love the area ... I would plan 2 additional days after you get the truck back for a shakedown. Leaks, stuff not working, checking oil, checking coolant, etc. Then hit the road if all is good. You have to re-read the break in procedure for the engine of varying the speed etc.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

You have to re-read the break in procedure for the engine of varying the speed etc.

You mean like "No Towing During the First 500 miles"???