In this months Trailer Life magazine there is an article on GM which says they are getting back in the diesel front with a 6. 6 liter turbodiesel that will be installed in the Chevy Silverado HD and the GMC Sierra HD trucks including the 2500 and 3500 series pickups and will be out this fall. They are going to use an Allison 1000 series five-speed auto with overdrive that is rated to handle up to 375 hp and 575 ft-lb of torque
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Who could Use A Bulletproof Automatic?
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We've probably all heard of the Aluma-Max and the Allison behind it. Frankly, 575 ft-lbs is nuttin, compared to what HVAC's gonna throw at this sucker. While we're all aware of the Mopar transmission's supposed weaknesses, it does have some strengths:
1. Parts available anywhere
2. No adapters needed
3. It really ISN'T weak.
4. Experienced aftermarketers know it's innards and can build it up - don't try this with an Allison.
5. IT FITS!
6. Parts are comparatively cheap, should you break it.
I am the single most bull-headed person I know, so I won't try to make this case again just to avoid making a 400 post length thread and boring the heck out of everyone. But, if you ARE going to go for max ability to handle the power, you should go for an auto. Why? It's the shock loads that kill, and the auto basically gets rid of most of them. Your differential and u-joints will take a LOT more power behind an auto than behind a stick, simply because of the lower shock loads.
You can't use the earlier 727, because it never came with the right bell housing pattern. As for the Allison soaking up your horsepower... That's mostly in the torque convertor. Change it, and it should improve. What can you get to fit, though? I have no idea. BD does make one to go into motorhomes with the allison, so you might consider calling them tomorrow.
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We've probably all heard of the Aluma-Max and the Allison behind it. Frankly, 575 ft-lbs is nuttin, compared to what HVAC's gonna throw at this sucker. While we're all aware of the Mopar transmission's supposed weaknesses, it does have some strengths:
1. Parts available anywhere
2. No adapters needed
3. It really ISN'T weak.
4. Experienced aftermarketers know it's innards and can build it up - don't try this with an Allison.
5. IT FITS!
6. Parts are comparatively cheap, should you break it.
I am the single most bull-headed person I know, so I won't try to make this case again just to avoid making a 400 post length thread and boring the heck out of everyone. But, if you ARE going to go for max ability to handle the power, you should go for an auto. Why? It's the shock loads that kill, and the auto basically gets rid of most of them. Your differential and u-joints will take a LOT more power behind an auto than behind a stick, simply because of the lower shock loads.
You can't use the earlier 727, because it never came with the right bell housing pattern. As for the Allison soaking up your horsepower... That's mostly in the torque convertor. Change it, and it should improve. What can you get to fit, though? I have no idea. BD does make one to go into motorhomes with the allison, so you might consider calling them tomorrow.
------------------
To really live, one must live as one believes. To really believe, one must live as one would believe.
My homepage
My email -- email address removed --
My opinions are my own and not my employer's. I do not represent anyone other than myself.
Last edited by a moderator:
HVAC you should consider an auto trans, the 47RH crossed with a 47RE. Built right it'll hold up. I busted my input shaft, but both shafts were stock, both times they were unfairly shock loaded by me, I shifted from 3rd to 4th with the tcc locked up at 3000rpm instead of 3600. I'm still making to much torque at 3000 to do that. Something you wouldn't have to worry about 
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Scourge of the North
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Piers
#ad#ad#adScourge of the North
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Piers
Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
A few miscellaneous points that might help: Since the Cummins has been in front of a lot of trannies, the adapter plate (cast aluminum) is available in many configurations. The 727 was available and was used in early first gen. Cummins Rams, before the overdrive. It used a 3. 07 rear axle. Your 5 speed has problems, but some of them have held up well to high powered diesels. You might have a "bad one" and the next 5 speed or 6 speed could do just fine. Best wishes in your new investigations!
there he is again cross posting ... #ad
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... HVAC if you feel you have to switch ,i'm with those that feel that the 47R* can be built to handle the power , but it won't be cheap , maybe the scourge will let you have one of his secert super duper input shafts ,then again you could just get your 5 speed fixed and buy a spare , you've had that thing in and out so many times it's probably held in with tie wraps and zippers ...#ad
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... but seriously , if smokey can abuse the DC trans like that and it lives to tell about it then it should be up to the task , i'm sure in the name of fairness the scourge would be more than happy to fix you up with one of his trannys ... . Piers , i'm curious , what convertor do you have in that beast ???
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John W. in N. H.
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Y2K 2500,QC,4x4,SLT+,CUMMINS,Auto,TT,CS,3. 54 LSD,Driftwood,Camel LEATHER + LOADED,Line-X,silencer ring in the glovebox,aspiring to BOMB !
1969 Dodge Superbee, Black on Black, 383, 4spd, BOMBed !!
[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 02-13-2000). ]
#ad#ad#ad#ad... HVAC if you feel you have to switch ,i'm with those that feel that the 47R* can be built to handle the power , but it won't be cheap , maybe the scourge will let you have one of his secert super duper input shafts ,then again you could just get your 5 speed fixed and buy a spare , you've had that thing in and out so many times it's probably held in with tie wraps and zippers ...
#ad#ad#ad#ad... but seriously , if smokey can abuse the DC trans like that and it lives to tell about it then it should be up to the task , i'm sure in the name of fairness the scourge would be more than happy to fix you up with one of his trannys ... . Piers , i'm curious , what convertor do you have in that beast ???
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John W. in N. H.
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Y2K 2500,QC,4x4,SLT+,CUMMINS,Auto,TT,CS,3. 54 LSD,Driftwood,Camel LEATHER + LOADED,Line-X,silencer ring in the glovebox,aspiring to BOMB !
1969 Dodge Superbee, Black on Black, 383, 4spd, BOMBed !!
[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 02-13-2000). ]
HVAC,
I would suggest sticking with the stock DC automatic. Beef it up with some race parts and a low stall torque convertor. You can get the input shaft and other part hardened by nitrogen freezing. That's what the NASCAR boys do to their trannies. The frozen shaft and parts are four times stronger than the stock parts. Several companies can do the work for you. When was the last time you saw a NASCAR car go out with transmission problems? Certainly not one of the "name" teams.
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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.
I would suggest sticking with the stock DC automatic. Beef it up with some race parts and a low stall torque convertor. You can get the input shaft and other part hardened by nitrogen freezing. That's what the NASCAR boys do to their trannies. The frozen shaft and parts are four times stronger than the stock parts. Several companies can do the work for you. When was the last time you saw a NASCAR car go out with transmission problems? Certainly not one of the "name" teams.
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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.
AAAaaaaa... . who let Piers in??? Somebody close that door and LOCK IT!! Those 12v guys
keep sneakin' in here and trackin' up our 24v forum, AArrrggh!
Boy, compelling arguments for staying with the Dodge transmission. Hmmmm.....
I will make some calls today to get some more feedback, and be further confused.
keep sneakin' in here and trackin' up our 24v forum, AArrrggh!
Boy, compelling arguments for staying with the Dodge transmission. Hmmmm.....
I will make some calls today to get some more feedback, and be further confused.
Oh Hvac! Most esteemed leader and icon of the south west, Don't let money get in the way. refinance the homestead, do what ever it takes Just remember the auto may, just may be your salvation from the scourge of the north. Regards and be sure to keep your loyal following informed #ad
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Pete
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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!
#ad#adPete
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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!
Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
HVAC, just to add spice to your decision process: you are planning on the automatic and on the P7100 pump. You are only a cylinder head away from Piers' combination (and of course some of his magic, which he will no doubt make affordable). At that point, your Ram will have mutated fully and be a brother to the Scourge of the North. If you follow carefully, we will then call you Scourge of the West. Even if you keep the 5 speed, I know of a Ram with a similar engine combination as Piers' (a brother Ram, which has had over 400 hp and 1000 ft lb for two years) known as the Scourge of the Desert. Take your pick. Enjoy your investigations.
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#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#adHelp Pete! Send a donation! #ad
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This diesel racing has all the trappings of a financial train wreck!!! LOL
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Playing catch up to that diesel meister "Scourge of the Snowy Wasteland" is causing me to bleed at an alarming rate#ad
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By the time May rolls around there may be nothing left of me 'cept a large grease spot! Yikes!!!
FL60, The problem I have with the Eaton and Fuller trannys is they are all 1 to 1 in 6th, no overdrive in other words. I would need to add a OD behind the transmission in that scenario and I would be talkin' 'round $7 large.
#ad#adThis diesel racing has all the trappings of a financial train wreck!!! LOL
#adPlaying catch up to that diesel meister "Scourge of the Snowy Wasteland" is causing me to bleed at an alarming rate
#ad#adBy the time May rolls around there may be nothing left of me 'cept a large grease spot! Yikes!!!
FL60, The problem I have with the Eaton and Fuller trannys is they are all 1 to 1 in 6th, no overdrive in other words. I would need to add a OD behind the transmission in that scenario and I would be talkin' 'round $7 large.
HVAC,
No need for the big bucks on the overdrive gear. Just pick a new rear end ratio.
A guy at Southern Truck Parts has a Dodge Diesel that he claims runs 12. 30's @ 110 in the 1/4 mile. Their web site is www.dieselhp.com.
Scourge of the East???
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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.
No need for the big bucks on the overdrive gear. Just pick a new rear end ratio.
A guy at Southern Truck Parts has a Dodge Diesel that he claims runs 12. 30's @ 110 in the 1/4 mile. Their web site is www.dieselhp.com.
Scourge of the East???
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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.
HVAC O great one from the west, did you look at the video clip at that web site Ben posted. Just thought I'd tell ya it was a auto!!;0 #ad
Regards Pete
#adRegards Pete
HVAC. . I told ya drag racing was a cubic hole to pour $$$ into, "he with most sponsers wins" is the current game. . that's why I got out and went sprinter racing [smart NOT]. . I'm in the nitrogen treated over size input shaft camp. . damn stuff works!! look into it. . I think you'll be way ahead both $$ and time. . if I can help ya call/write or crawl on up. . Gary
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98 24v 5sp Qcab 4x4 3500 dually SLT emerald green DC alum. rims 235/85/16's. . Scotty system. . DD stage III & module pac brake 50lb boost&pyro Isspro guages on pilar. . soon Blue box 4" exhust 100+ gal bed mount tank
RAM IT IN THE DIRT. . IT FEELS GOOD
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98 24v 5sp Qcab 4x4 3500 dually SLT emerald green DC alum. rims 235/85/16's. . Scotty system. . DD stage III & module pac brake 50lb boost&pyro Isspro guages on pilar. . soon Blue box 4" exhust 100+ gal bed mount tank
RAM IT IN THE DIRT. . IT FEELS GOOD
Anyone try the EATON 6spd?? 
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#adHVAC i was just thinnin' again , i hate when i do this , of course you realize EVERYTHING else that goes with an auto conversion , steering column , automatic configured computer , unless you go to a 47RH instead of 47RE , wiring harnesses , and so on , it might be cheaper and easier to unBOMB your present ride , buy a NEW and IMPROVED , RAM and reBOMB ... i'm still with the buy the tools , and 2 5spds , that way you always have a spare ... plus rowing thru the gears seems like fun , it is when i'm ripping around in the bee #ad
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, which i got to drive on saturday ... ground was dry , no SNOW on the roads ...
... ... ... ... ... .....
WAITING IMPATIENTLY FOR SPRING !!!
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John W. in N. H.
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Y2K 2500,QC,4x4,SLT+,CUMMINS,Auto,TT,CS,3. 54 LSD,Driftwood,Camel LEATHER + LOADED,Line-X,silencer ring in the glovebox,aspiring to BOMB !
1969 Dodge Superbee, Black on Black, 383, 4spd, BOMBed !!
#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad#ad, which i got to drive on saturday ... ground was dry , no SNOW on the roads ...
... ... ... ... ... .....
WAITING IMPATIENTLY FOR SPRING !!!
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John W. in N. H.
-------------------------
Y2K 2500,QC,4x4,SLT+,CUMMINS,Auto,TT,CS,3. 54 LSD,Driftwood,Camel LEATHER + LOADED,Line-X,silencer ring in the glovebox,aspiring to BOMB !
1969 Dodge Superbee, Black on Black, 383, 4spd, BOMBed !!
Well HVAC...
not that you've had time to recover from "transplant sticker-shock"...
what have you learned????
I'm sure curious if there's some "slick" setup that can be done before the EPA, OBD-x, Common Rail/Computer Controled transmission intergration and any other driving force make such transplants a technological nightmare.
So, What's the Scoop HVAC???
not that you've had time to recover from "transplant sticker-shock"...
what have you learned????
I'm sure curious if there's some "slick" setup that can be done before the EPA, OBD-x, Common Rail/Computer Controled transmission intergration and any other driving force make such transplants a technological nightmare.
So, What's the Scoop HVAC???
Good question! I don't know...
Turns out Lawrence at DD is having an auto transmission built for a drag truck he is building, I hope to learn from this as I may stick a Dodge auto in my truck. I plan to install the 6sp for the long run, one with the 1 3/8 input shaft. Bigger is better in this case. If I had a question now, I would wonder why I would want the electronically controlled auto instead of the non electronic version??? Thoughts??? Answers???? Non of the above???
Turns out Lawrence at DD is having an auto transmission built for a drag truck he is building, I hope to learn from this as I may stick a Dodge auto in my truck. I plan to install the 6sp for the long run, one with the 1 3/8 input shaft. Bigger is better in this case. If I had a question now, I would wonder why I would want the electronically controlled auto instead of the non electronic version??? Thoughts??? Answers???? Non of the above???
Electronic Controlssssssss
EEEEK!
I'm not too familiar w/ Dodges' level of engine/transmission control integration, but I think going manual to auto would be easier than auto to stick.
Having seen these issues addressed with ferds and the E40D boxes in Gas trucks... . I’m reaching for the Aspirin as I type.
Keep us in the know... I'm looking forward to seeing the 24V Victor vanquish the "valve deficient crowd" with reckless abandon!
EEEEK!
I'm not too familiar w/ Dodges' level of engine/transmission control integration, but I think going manual to auto would be easier than auto to stick.
Having seen these issues addressed with ferds and the E40D boxes in Gas trucks... . I’m reaching for the Aspirin as I type.
Keep us in the know... I'm looking forward to seeing the 24V Victor vanquish the "valve deficient crowd" with reckless abandon!
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