Why can't they kill Saddam?

[Sled Puller]

You guys watch this on the History Channel?



My question is this:



Where has NATO been while he has been butchering his own people?



Why is that ok for him to do that?

 

[sdalton]

Because much of NATO is no different than him

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

Why is that ok for him to do that?

Because he was fighting against our enemies the Iranians with US supplied chemical technology when it happened. His own people, the Kurds, just happened to be on the side of the Iranians.



How come we supported oil rich Iran when our US appointed dictator the Shah, was killing thousands of his own people but then switched sides when the majority of Iranian people couldn't take anymore, rebelled and installed the Ayatollah?



How come we provided exile for the Shah and the billions of dollars he escaped with in the US after he was ousted?



How come the US didn't help out oil poor Cambodia when Pol Pot killed millions?



Who is the going to be the US installed Shah of Iraq when Hussen is gone?

 

[Sled Puller]

I just KNEW that it would be all our fault somehow.



Anybody else hate their country?

Line forms to the right.



Where was NATO in all those instances?

 

[illflem]

Gene, I love my country that's why don't want to see it's image bashed over some guy's greedy quest for revenge.

It really hurt me last week talking to a group of students who had just returned from a tour of Europe and Asia. These Montana kids finally resorted to telling people they were from Canada to avoid the hatred directed towards Americans that they encountered almost everywhere they went. It sure wasn't that way just a couple of years ago.





NY Times January 31, 2003

By STEPHEN C. PELLETIERE ( the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war)





MECHANICSBURG, Pa. — It was no surprise that President Bush, lacking smoking-gun evidence of Iraq's weapons programs, used his State of the Union address to re-emphasize the moral case for an invasion: "The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured. "



The accusation that Iraq has used chemical weapons against its citizens is a familiar part of the debate. The piece of hard evidence most frequently brought up concerns the gassing of Iraqi Kurds at the town of Halabja in March 1988, near the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq war. President Bush himself has cited Iraq's "gassing its own people," specifically at Halabja, as a reason to topple Saddam Hussein.



But the truth is, all we know for certain is that Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds. This is not the only distortion in the Halabja story.



I am in a position to know because, as the Central Intelligence Agency's senior political analyst on Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, and as a professor at the Army War College from 1988 to 2000, I was privy to much of the classified material that flowed through Washington having to do with the Persian Gulf. In addition, I headed a 1991 Army investigation into how the Iraqis would fight a war against the United States; the classified version of the report went into great detail on the Halabja affair.



This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.



And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.



The agency did find that each side used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja. The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.



These facts have long been in the public domain but, extraordinarily, as often as the Halabja affair is cited, they are rarely mentioned. A much-discussed article in The New Yorker last March did not make reference to the Defense Intelligence Agency report or consider that Iranian gas might have killed the Kurds. On the rare occasions the report is brought up, there is usually speculation, with no proof, that it was skewed out of American political favoritism toward Iraq in its war against Iran.



I am not trying to rehabilitate the character of Saddam Hussein. He has much to answer for in the area of human rights abuses. But accusing him of gassing his own people at Halabja as an act of genocide is not correct, because as far as the information we have goes, all of the cases where gas was used involved battles. These were tragedies of war. There may be justifications for invading Iraq, but Halabja is not one of them.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by illflem

Gene, I love my country that's why don't want to see it's image bashed over some guy's greedy quest for revenge.

.

I really, really worry about people like you illflem, if that is your attitude and what you truly believe.



BTW, Europeans have always hated us, that is not anything new.



Sometimes those little yapping dogs just bite the hands that feed them. The owner puts up with it for awhile, but eventually, the yapping dog gets the everloving snot beat out of it.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

The millions that demonstrated around the world, and those that are vehemently expressing opposition to Bush, are all inspired by the leftist communist and Satanic forces that are controlling this world.



It has just gotten all their goats that the conservatives in America have made a tiny effort in bringing back common sense and morality to the United States by defeating the Democrats in the Presidential and Congressional elections.



They can not understand what it means to take responsibility and stand for right.



Freedom is not free. Freedom did not come about by demonstration, marches, and protests against tyranny. Freedom came by men shedding the blood of the tyrants and being willing to give their own blood for the future of their families.



If all these weeny demonstrators and protestors think Bush is a tyrant, why don't they put some skin and blood in the game and try to take him out in the name of Freedom??



Their bellies are too full of milk toast and their brains are destroyed from philosophical animal fertilizer!



I don't want war either. As far as I'm concerned, the blood of an American soldier is too precious to waste. If we are going to send a message to terrorists, we are going to have to kill them. I repeat KILL THEM. They do not think like we do. They do not believe like we do. They kill us because we are different than them in belief. What a great reason! Saddam Hussein is a terrorist. I don't care if we did support him once. He is a TERRORIST! Yassir Arafat is a terrorist! Everyone sitting on the fence in America is supporting terrorism. You are either for us or against us.



A real man does not take a box cutter and slit the throat of a flight attendant to make a statement. Remember how the terrorist took over the airplanes loaded with men, women, and children and then crashed them into buildings to kill as many AMERICANS as possible.



Saddam Hussein doesn't need weapons of mass destruction. All he needs are the thousands of brain washed fanaticals with the next 'box cutter' in a crowd of AMERICANS! His brain washed fanatical maniacs crying out for JIHAD against America are his WMD!



Wake up you panty waisted, milk toast loving, jello brain, limp wristed, mama boys!



The American way of life and freedom is still worth fighting for!

 

[DHRA]

Originally posted by illflem

These Montana kids finally resorted to telling people they were from Canada to avoid the hatred directed towards Americans that they encountered almost everywhere they went. It sure wasn't that way just a couple of years ago.

You don't see something wrong with that?

So a few harsh words from people got them to resort to lying about being a Canadian? This is an opportunity to help Europeans realize that it's not about oil, and that we aren't just protecting the US, but most of the world.

It's sad that those students lack balls, yellow stripes right up the center of their backs! I would say that it's kids these days, but it's not, there are plenty that do have Patriotism and honor. Where's the honor in the cowardly act of denying to be an American?

 

[me4osu]

Originally posted by illflem

It really hurt me last week talking to a group of students who had just returned from a tour of Europe and Asia. These Montana kids finally resorted to telling people they were from Canada to avoid the hatred directed towards Americans that they encountered almost everywhere they went. It sure wasn't that way just a couple of years ago.

I have to say bullcrap on that point Bill. While I haven't been to Asia, I travel outside the US quite often (too friggin' often) for work purposes, and I'll be ****** if I will ever say I am from another country. Besides, the only people who have a widespread hatred of the US in Europe are the rifledroppers (French). Most of the places I go, the people (regular people, not politicians) like the US and believe we are doing the right thing in the Middle East.



Don't judge the European Union based upon the utterings of France and Germany. There are a lot of other countries in the EU, and they support us. The main one is the UK. I would much rather have the UK military on my side than the pansy French.



Everytime I go to ANY country outside the United States, I thank God I was born here and I can't wait to get back!

 

[Rman]

Just curious as to how many of you have actually lived in other countries? I don't mean a nice little 2 week vacation where you only visit the tourist traps and spend your american money that the foreigners want and could careless about you or where your from. Take this cowboy attitude, that we're better than everyone else, to the streets of dahran saudi arabia or turkey, iraq, kuwait, thailand, brazil, colombia... see what it will get you.



I get tired of the pompous attitude of americans, patriotism and silly arrogance coupled with ignorance are different. I have my opinions about world affairs but i keep them too myself, unfortunately i don't have the luxury to judge and question my superiors. I trust them to make educated decisions on what truly needs to be done. There is much intelligence that the common person does not know. I feel that the media has twisted this scenario to make the US look like the bad guy. The world media has taken the sides of terrorists and has made us look like the villain. Their is far greater things at stake than the fate of one country and its leader. If we proceed with this war, be prepared for we will have the wrath of many well funded, lunatic terrorists at our throats. This hijacking planes and bringing buildings down will not compare to nuclear armed terrorists. Nukes are terrible weapons not be in the wrong hands. Countries like N. Korea are just waiting to supply them with weapons for a couple bags of rice in exchange.



Now believe me I'm the last person to discount this war, i firmly believe we should disarm Iraq, but i can understand opposition and understand that certain important steps should be taken. Look at this matter from both points of view and trust our leaders judgment. They have far more access to information that we probably will know. Stop harping on everyone, because until you're put into a situation like our presidents I really doubt you could do any better given the global situation.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by DieselSport Promotions

that it's not about oil, and that we aren't just protecting the US, but most of the world.

It isn't about oil? Who are you kidding? If it's not about oil then why aren't we threatening war against N. Korea? BTW, how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi citizens? How many were Saudi citizens? If it's truly about terrorism and protecting America & the rest of the non-muslim world shouldn't we be going after Saudi Arabia? Wait a minute, their an 'ally' with huge oil reserves.....



Personally, I think Hussein should have been removed from power - be it by killing him or jail - at the end of the Gulf War. Heck, as far as I'm concerned the Gulf War hasn't ended since he's still in power. But to think this isn't ultimately about oil is sticking your head in the sand.



Brian

 

[Qualey]

"are all inspired by the leftist communist and Satanic forces that are controlling this world. "







HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I usually avoid these topics, but that was too good to be true.



At least you drive a nice truck

 

[Sled Puller]

Brian,

Its not about oil, we have not bought any Iraq oil for some time, remember the sanctions that worked so well?



We COULD have taken Saddam out, but we didn't.

Why?

The world community and NATO said not to. Just get them out of Kuwait, good enough.



Time to quit listening to them, and do what needs to be done.



How many North Koreans were hijackers?

This is a war against terrorism, hijackers or not, and Congress has oked it TWICE.



One cesspool at a time, one at a time.



You fellas are going to look awful foolish, when we take care of Iraq, and find everything or more, including Bin laden ties, in Baghdad, that Bush and Powell said were there.



Oh, there are 25+ conuntries with us at the moment, including most of Saddams neighbors.

France, Germany, and Belgium are against it.

Belgium, who cares, and Germany is going to cave.





WAS IT ABOUT OIL WHEN CLINTON FIRED CRUISE MISSILES AT IRAQ???????????????????????????????????

 

[Champane Flight]

Time

I think you probably need a story.



I had the plesure of being friends with members of a LRP (lerp+long Range Patrol) team when I was in country. We would insert them into suspected heavy NVA areas and then retreive them when they found them, or in most cases got thier *** shot off. They were brave men.



One day I went over to their hooch to shoot the breeze with them. My buddy, Private Johns, was sitting on his foot locker cleaning his weapon, Sargent Lewis was on his bed. They had a mission the next day and were very quiet. We were just sitting there when a young large second luey came stomping in. He shouted "All you lilly livered, panty waists better get your **** together we are moving out first thing in the morning. " It went on for awhile and nobody said a thing back to him. Sargent Lewis just sat there and smiled at the "Butter ball". Finally he left and I asked Johns "What was his problem?" He replied " He is a *** (&%*$# new guy) and doesen't like our attitude towards this war". I said " Why is the Sargent so easy with him and smiling?" I had seen the Sargent kick the **** out of four men in Saigon the week before. Johns replied " He is the one who gets to slap the living **** out of the luey when the first firefight starts and he is laying behind a tree in the fetal position crying!"



I asked why he thought the luey was going to do this in combat? He replied "The big loud ones always do!" It did come true and the luey came home with a different look in his eyes.



I will not speak against the war right now. All the name calling and testosterone does not help the efforts of our fighting men. I will help with needs of the familys the troops leave behind.

 

[Sled Puller]

Nice story, CF.

You have not really spoken against the war yet, just against Bush.

 

[Kickin Y2K]

Why can't they kill Saddam? Too much money to be made off these little military actions. Plain and simple, it's all about money. When these little wars get going, we buy trucks, fuel, ammo, clothing, food, tents, whatever else our military needs (then when they come back I buy it all at auction and make me some money )

It can't be for oil. There's enough capped wells in just California alone to supply everyone, not to mention the wells in Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, etc.

What gets me is these inspectors. Why are they there? We can get all the information we need through our spy satellites. I saw what looked like a blurred 8x10 photo at an airshow about ten years ago. It was a photo taken from the SR-71 over San Francisco. When put under this special lens they had you could read license plates and see the smoke coming from a cigarette! This is stuff they were showing civilians 10 years ago, imagine the technology we have now... . we know every move Saddam makes.

Just my opinion though.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Kickin Y2K



It can't be for oil. There's enough capped wells in just California alone to supply everyone, not to mention the wells in Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, etc.

I'm all for boring holes in the ground - including ANWR. Heck, Big Oil payed for everything I had as a kid - dad worked for Exxon for 27 yrs.



But it's the NIMBY syndrome most of the US populace has - at least the urban centers with the voting clout.



Brian

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

I'm all for boring holes in the ground - including ANWR.

Brian

How come the anti- war protesters aren't begging Bush to drill instead of fight?

Good question, ain't it?

 

[Jumbo Jet]

The protestors don't want more oil. They are the same ones that are calling for boycotts against KFC, McDonalds, etc. and want all of us to eat veggies and wipe our posteriors with leaves; ride our bicycles to work and light our houses with candles. AND, they want YOU to stop driving that pollutin' DIESEL powered truck!!!!!!!



The Great American Success story is a P I Their A!

 

[Kickin Y2K]

They're the same clowns that drive around in those electric cars we all love to smoke out so much and yes, a PSD can smoke too Okay not as much as you guys.