Why I don't want a 3rd Gen....

[Guest]

First, don't you think many of our trucks get hitches installed on them? Many peopld like welding them on, correct? I guess I could say people that make uneducated replies like this look like idiots? But I'm not going to do that because I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I am very disappointed in you all. I thought you guys were a better group of people who didn't get a kick out of bashing someone's comments.



And don't even go there trying to say oooohh you stirred the pot, guess what, your starting to sound like a politicion that doesn't want to get to the truth of the matter.

Why dont you quit being stupid and get over to the appropriate Generation, quit trying to defend yourself... DEBATE????? this isnt a debate forum. .



I dont care if you are disappointed your post was stupid to begin with.

 

[Guest]

Another pro to the first/second gen w/12v engine... . If the **** ever hits the fan, and in a case of nuclear fallout when electronics fail to function, this truck will continue to run without a problem... all 24v and 3rd gens will be parked... .

NUCLEAR FALLOUT, that is hilarious, if there ever is such an event none of us will be driving, we will be dead, severly ill, or hiding in a shelter... ... .



Your killing us here.

 

[pwerwagn]

Actually the person that mentioned it was me. And no you are wrong. My truck dynoed 236 stock. So I have an increase of almost 235 Hp at the tires"with just two boxes. " Just how many 12 valves are currently making 800 HP on a single charger? I am not denying there aren't plenty of high HP 12 valve trucks out there, but like it or not the truth is the truth. The common rail has hardly been tapped yet and is catching up quickly. Compare apples to apples and you won't find too many 12 valves making close to 500 HP with less than $1,000 invested. Like you said, you might come close, but I doubt it. Maybe with second hand parts.

Dont get me wrong, I wasnt bashing 3rd gens at all. I was just stating what I used to weigh my choice when I was buying a new truck. I was considering buying a 03 cummins or an 03 hemi. I could get a killer deal at the time, but after I researched a little, I decided that for the prices of current 2nd gens vs. 3rd gens, I couldnt go wrong with a 2nd. And I wanted a 12V over 24V.

Oh, the power thing. So you are at ~470hp? for $1000? Thats pretty impressive. I was basing my claims off factory rated hp, of both mine and yours (which I was assuming to be a 600, not a 555). So I guess a 12V could gain 200hp pretty easily (#10 in a 215 pump full foward) for about 250$. Some 370 injectors would have you gain at least a total of 250 combined with the plate, and you'd be lookin at ~600$. Of course, that does not include the exhaust and stuff to keep it cool. I was just debating a little. Oh, and I never said there were 800hp single charger 12V's all over, I just said it has been done in a 12V. I agree with you, HPCR injection is pretty impressive, and catching up fast. Its only a matter of time before they rule.



Everthing in life has advantages, and everything has disadvantages. We must weight the pros and cons in our own situation to decide what we like and want. Nobody is wrong for wanting what they have, nor should anyone be "bashed" for liking something different. Maybe the bashing could stop now, and a friendly debate take place?

 

[daytripper63]

Did someone not take their medication today?

 

[DGFoster]

I love my 2004 truck,BUT if I had to do all over again I would have kept the 2000,just because I fit that truck more than the new one,I like the seats better.

 

[CChase]

I just went out and took these, because it kind of irritates me when someone says that it can't be done, when I know it can

Billy



Not sure what the original intent was behind it being said it can't be done because the frame is still steel, and so yes it can be done. The issue with not being able to weld to the frame is a structural issue and DC saying it shouldn't be done. Welding is frowned on because it can ultimately weaken the frame if not done correctly.



I believe there was a TSB issued by DC that stated that anybody is free to weld on the frame but because the frame is hydroformed and welding can alter the structural integrity of the frame, that person assumes full responsibility for the portion of the frame that has been welded to as it has been altered in such a way that DC can no longer guarantee it.

 

[M_Roth]

Where are you getting the information that these frames can't or shouldn't be welded on?

I can't help but jump in here. I was at Kamper Corner in Victorville, CA working a deal on a fifth wheel when Harrison, the salesman dropped that bomb on me. His spin on this is "allot of dealers are welding on the Hydoformed (rolled alluminum) frames voiding the manufacturer's warranties. "



Anyone here have any additional info before I purchase mine?



Sorry this post may be off topic. My apology.

 

[JHardwick]

Come on guys!



I visit a couple horse forums as well as this one, and I am not only amazed but always praise the fact that there is little to no animosity on this forum as seen on some of the horse forums. One horse forum got so bad that they never talked about horses any longer, it was more like a soap opera filled with nothing but personal attacks.



EBOTTEMA obviously started this thread in an attempt to get a rise. If he wanted a debate, he woulda said …. . I like this and that on the 3rd gens, but not that and this, what do you guys think?



He didn’t. I agree with Mr. Pelletier, the original post was antagonistic. He basically said, your trucks are junk and I don’t want one.



Now, the worst part? (this is what will start a separation) We have 2nd gens like todt061458 standing behind the original post and trying to throw the egg on 3rd genners as being thin skinned after being told that their new truck is junk.



I’m a Cummins fan through and through, 12V, 24V, common rail, whatever ………… but’ I don’t go to the 1st or 2nd gen forums and say …………… your truck has no power and rides like a log wagon and I don’t want one because of yadda yadda yadda, and then expect a civil debate now do I?



I agree with Mr. Battelle, this thread should probably be deleted. I don’t see anything constructive coming from a thread started my somebody wanting to pick a fight.



-Jeff



here is proof that he is trying to pit 2nd genners against 3rd genners click here, he thinks its a game

 

[JimBob24]

I think the quote at the end of EBOTTEMA's signature says it all.

 

[JHardwick]

MRoth and CChase,



My truck was taken directly from the dealer and had a gooseball welded in before the first 50 miles were logged.



The dealer knew this and never batted an eye.



I've heard about the "no drill, no weld" deal.



From what I know and have read, DC does say that no hole should be any closer than X/X" from any other hole or edge. They also say that welding should be performed according to SSP and be covered with a rust inhibitor prior to welding.



Yes, it's steel, yes, it can be welded. I don't care if the frame is stamped or hydroformed, it's still steel. I can't see a weld weekening the frame if done correctly and in essence all you are doing is adding another support strut.



Now, I'm a machinist, not a welder, so if I'm wrong, you fab guys need to jump in and correct me.



In the older days, frames were stamped from some pretty heavy steel. You could take an 1/8" 7018 and burn your particular accessory pretty deep and have a secure attatchment.



These days, we have a thinner, hydroformed, boxed frame. Actually supposed to be more ridid, and with the box design, it probably is. But, you can't burn a big 7018 at 200 amps without basically burning the frame in two.



My goose plate was wire welded in, less heat and less penetration, thinner steel. Welded in accordance to SSP.



All I know is I've towed off it for 20-30K miles of my 50K total and it still looks good to me

 

[y-knot]

Well maybe you don't see anything constructive coming from them, but that does not mean they should not exist.



The frames are not made of ALUMINUM as the poster 3-4 post back stated.



Hydro formed frames offer reduced cost to the manufacturers, they allow thinner metals two be used to form complex, one piece structures that are considerably lighter and stronger then their conventional counterparts. Other advantages include repeatability in bends and in uniform energy absorption during impacts. The use of tubing and hydro forming also eliminates much of the welding, which takes time, and corrodes faster.



The Dodge Durango and the Ford F-150 are two vehicles constructed with frame parts made with High Strength Hydro Formed steel. This is the latest technology to make it to the new truck market, our Dodge Ram trucks do not incorporate this just yet. Also, some manufacturers are going with the High Strength Hydro Formed Steel frames and incorporating the use of External welded-on Reinforcement plates on portions of the frame, this provides additional strength. One example of the use of this new technology would be the new Ford F-150.



Heating: As you know Dodge publishes materials advising not to weld on these frames. This I find interesting, because to repair a Hydro Formed steel frame, they make sections, clips both front and rear that must be welded in. I think the whole thing comes down to liability. People forget, these new frames are made of much thinner materials then their predecessors. And in my opinion the new 3rd generation trucks are not as versatile or rugged as the 2nd generation ones they replace. The thinner materials require that the welder be more skilled, and that maybe certain sections should also be plated for additional strength.

 

[Billy Golightly]

Billy



Not sure what the original intent was behind it being said it can't be done because the frame is still steel, and so yes it can be done. The issue with not being able to weld to the frame is a structural issue and DC saying it shouldn't be done. Welding is frowned on because it can ultimately weaken the frame if not done correctly.



I believe there was a TSB issued by DC that stated that anybody is free to weld on the frame but because the frame is hydroformed and welding can alter the structural integrity of the frame, that person assumes full responsibility for the portion of the frame that has been welded to as it has been altered in such a way that DC can no longer guarantee it.

My apologies then, I was under the impression he was saying it physically could not be done. I had not heard of any TSB or anything/anyone saying that you could not weld on the frame because of structural reasons. I asked about this before I even bought the truck and I was assured it was fine But I am not suprised as I've had the truck back there on 3 different occasions for the rearend whine TSB with no success.



Anyways, sorry if I stepped on anyones toes.

 

[JLittle]

Only Time will tell which is better! but 1 thing that I dont like about the new gen is the electronic injectors! for example look at the Not so reliable expensieve Ford Powder Stroke injectors?

 

[DPelletier]

Only Time will tell which is better! but 1 thing that I dont like about the new gen is the electronic injectors! for example look at the Not so reliable expensieve Ford Powder Stroke injectors?

Sorry, I must correct you on that one. Our 3rd gen solenoid actuated injectors are like an on and off switch allowing the high pressure fuel into the common rail at the appropriate time . Ford HEUI injectors are a totally different animal and ARE the pump. They are also actuated by oil pressure. Totally different (and WAY more complex) animals. I know, I had to buy 5 for my last PSD!



Dave

 

[CChase]

Anyways, sorry if I stepped on anyones toes.

Didn't get my toes (that's not an invitation to try though... . )



Have a look see at this TSB, the technical speak on what I said. DC says it can be done, but there are certain precautions (pretty sure legal had their two bits in there) that have to be taken though they are for the most part common sense. Still the ultimate performance is put on the person doing the modification, but I don't think this is any different than if you had welded to an older trucks frame and the frame broke at that point due to poor welding practices. I think it's just that these frames are a lot less tolerant to bad welding practices, thus the TSB.



On a side note, the spring hangers and numerous other things are welded on at the factory... .

 

[M_Roth]

MRoth and CChase,

Yes, it's steel, yes, it can be welded. I don't care if the frame is stamped or hydroformed, it's still steel. I can't see a weld weekening the frame if done correctly and in essence all you are doing is adding another support strut.

Thank You JHardwick

 

[KBennett]

I love my 3rd Gen and you can't have it

Better stop posting this silly stuff and get out there and work on your 2G cause the 3G's are gonna pass you buy

 

[PJ]

Ive owned a 1990 1 ton 4x4 . . Reliable as ever but rode like it had NO springs.

Ive owned a 1998 3/4 4x4 12valve. Beautiful truck but always wanted to turn right when I stepped on the brakes.

I owned a 2004 305/555HO 3/4 4x4. After a set of ball joints and several alignments, I traded it off for a 2005. So far, besides the crap mileage and ultra black oil, no problems. Im headed on a 800 mile trip first thing in the morning. I had the latest TSB mileage "dream" done and I just topped off the tank. Im now ready to drive the ever lovin crap out of this thing to give it a good break in and see just what mileage I really get. NOT by looking at the over head. Everything just got reset. Im ready to hit the road at sun up. Im sure Ill pull a good 18mpg or better as Im basically unloaded. As for rating all the Dodges Ive owned, this 05 is by far the nicest one yet! It rides better than my Yukon XL that has air ride! IF the mileage isnt improved, I say SO WHAT! I could afford the truck, I can afford the fuel. When the Yukon gets to be another year old, its getting replaced with an H2 Hummer! $3. 00 a gallon? Oh well, I cant take it with me so why not enjoy the rest of my life! Oo. Oo. Oo. I love my truck!

 

[EBottema]

Come on guys!



I visit a couple horse forums as well as this one, and I am not only amazed but always praise the fact that there is little to no animosity on this forum as seen on some of the horse forums. One horse forum got so bad that they never talked about horses any longer, it was more like a soap opera filled with nothing but personal attacks.



EBOTTEMA obviously started this thread in an attempt to get a rise. If he wanted a debate, he woulda said …. . I like this and that on the 3rd gens, but not that and this, what do you guys think?



He didn’t. I agree with Mr. Pelletier, the original post was antagonistic. He basically said, your trucks are junk and I don’t want one.



Now, the worst part? (this is what will start a separation) We have 2nd gens like todt061458 standing behind the original post and trying to throw the egg on 3rd genners as being thin skinned after being told that their new truck is junk.



I’m a Cummins fan through and through, 12V, 24V, common rail, whatever ………… but’ I don’t go to the 1st or 2nd gen forums and say …………… your truck has no power and rides like a log wagon and I don’t want one because of yadda yadda yadda, and then expect a civil debate now do I?



I agree with Mr. Battelle, this thread should probably be deleted. I don’t see anything constructive coming from a thread started my somebody wanting to pick a fight.



-Jeff



here is proof that he is trying to pit 2nd genners against 3rd genners click here, he thinks its a game

See now I'm pist. I tried to have a debate and most of you with third gen trucks are so defensive that it makes me sick. It is a god damn truck, get over it. And you Jeff, don't start with me and say I was trying to get a rise, maybe we should call you John Kerry since you mimic his bs so well. Pitting 2nd genners against 3rd genners??? Buddy, geez, I hope this message board does not get your blood pressure up this high. You really need to calm down. I was trying to get some 2nd genners to comment since I was getting bashed since some of you feel I am bashing your precious baby... . And no John Kerry, I don't think it is a game... I'm done with this post, lets delete it since we like oppression, stepping all over freedom of speech. Better yet, why don't we keep going with this and ban guns, internal combustion engines, and so on... . then we will have nothing to debate... . I'm going back to my 2nd gen place since I wouldn't want to have a conversation with donkies...

 

[JHardwick]

Buddy, geez, I hope this message board does not get your blood pressure up this high. You really need to calm down.

It doesn't, and I am.



I also refrained from name calling if you'll notice.