Winter Time Warm Ups and the Auto Trans

[DPKetchum]

Seneca is more of a SIGN then a town. I'm friends with a Rancher there. Stayed in the national forest several times. I'm also pulling a gooseneck horse trailer and sleep in the front at Koa's and National forest etc.

 

[Summit]

Originally posted by LightmanE300

Summit, some of us can only imagine what it's like to be able to go into a store for 3 mins with the truck running outside. Around here it wouldn't be there when you got back!!

yeah,, i dont tend to take the keys out too often in this area,really depeds on where im at or what im doing .



actually i was in old town fl this last may and found my self doin the same thing there, probably not a good idea but made it ok.



theres alot of places out west that are still "laid back"



dont mess with my stuff and i wont make you dissapear!!

 

[Matt400]

Thanks everyone for the great advise, I do take advantage of the softwares fast idle for warm ups and that does help. I know I said 10-15 min. but watching the clock I now see its more like 5-10 min. that I idle it.



It helps to thaw the windows and sometimes I have snow to brush from the glass that is much more easy with a pre-warmed interior.



My main concern was the trans fluid not flowing in park if it would cause more wear on the trans. Maybe its better in cold weather to not have the fluid pumping through the cooler anyway but it would bother me if the pump was not circulating fluid at all anywhere in the trans while in park.



Plugging in I might give a try but I thought those measures were for extreme temps like sub zero. I might feel like weenie :{plugging in @ +30 but a toasty start off to work might be kinda nice. Anybody ever drive off with the cord attached?

 

[TboneMan]

A long time ago some smart people invented some really neat things to help you stay warm in cold weather.



They are called hats, gloves and jackets.



Come-on now, 20 - 40 deg positive F? This isn't cold.



Start up, get oil pressure, let it idle while the garage door is closing and proceed down the road.



Warm up idling is a waist of time and fuel.



Actually, I have the same gripe with these people who have remote starters for their cars. I'm surprise the environmental lobby hasn't taken this one on yet.

 

[WoodChuck]

I assure you the transmission pump is running as long as the engine is.



I used to pump in my truck all the time and it is rare to ever see +18 around here. It's just nice to have a preheated engine.



You could put a timer on the cord so it would turn on say an hour before you normally leave.

 

[DPKetchum]

Trans pump on Chrysler trans only running in gear or neutral not in PARK.

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by TboneMan

Come-on now, 20 - 40 deg positive F? This isn't cold.



Start up, get oil pressure, let it idle while the garage door is closing and proceed down the road.

That explains why you think those temps are not cold, I understand other areas are much colder but when the doors are frozen shut and its covered in snow. It's just a tad bit cooler in the interior than if I parked in the garage where the ski boat lives.

Warm up idling is a waist of time and fuel.



Actually, I have the same gripe with these people who have remote starters for their cars. I'm surprise the environmental lobby hasn't taken this one on yet.

Yes but do you have the same gripe with those people that warm up their house in the morning only to leave off to work?

 

[dnitzel]

"Anybody ever drive off with the cord attached?" Yep, several times. I don't like doing it but the heater still works. I now plug in my heater from the box, meaning I ran a extension cord from the front of the truck to the box. I wrapped the 12 ga 25' cord with clear plastic tubing for protection from the elements. Now, when I walk into the garage, I see the cord, and since I have a short garage, I do not have to get out of the truck to plug it in and un-plug it.



I had a long talk with my cousin this weekend who has been working on various brands of diesels for 40 years, and now manages the engine side of large local diesel engine sales/parts shop. I mentioned idle time on a cold engine, and he said that if you are using a good quality oil, (I use Rotella) there should be a more than adequate oil film left on the cylinder/parts to allow for adequate protection even after it's been setting out in the cold for weeks. Just try not to operate a cold engine above 50-75% of MCR (maximum continuous rating) until it has warmed up. He would get in the truck, and after the oil pressure as come up to normal, then drive it to help facilitate oil flow in the engine.



We talked about synthetic oil in a diesel and he did not think (opinion) that it may not be capable of containing enough detergent to adequately meet the needs of a diesel engine considering the inferior quality of American diesel fuel. He thought that maybe in Europe it would work fine.

 

[dieselpilot1969]

even something like delvac 1 ?

 

[amsoilman]

We talked about synthetic oil in a diesel and he did not think (opinion) that it may not be capable of containing enough detergent to adequately meet the needs of a diesel engine considering the inferior quality of American diesel fuel. He thought that maybe in Europe it would work fine.

dnitzel,

A true "PAO" Group IV synthetic oil is by far and away High Detergent!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DPKetchum]

The chicken houses around here have some BIG mother diesels running the emergency generators. They come on at once a week intervals for a test. Run anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes. They come on to WIDE OPEN GOVERNOR from a cold start!I keep thinking that some of these will shoot something out of the side of them one day. :--)

 

[RJMurphy]

The pump on ALL Chrysler autmatic transmissions is driven by the tangs (Or flats depending on what year-trans) on the Torque Converter, as long as the engine is running, the pump is spinning, so it is moving fluid. there is NO way to "shut off" the pump as long as the torque converter is spinning. The torque converter is bolted directly to the crankshaft through the flex-plate. The pump picks up fluid from the sump (pan) directly, if there was a valve to shut off the flow to the pump, the pump would cavitate and destroy itself. The fluid is definately being pumped and producing pressure in park. The engine can idle all day long with the trans in park without damaging the transmission in any way. Peace Murfman

 

[DPKetchum]

Well if that the case WHY is it on ones with NO drain back valve can run in park all day and drop them in drive and NOTHING. Run in neutral and they work fine after a few seconds. Same with a flush machine. NO fluid movement in park but there is in neutral. Ones with hard seals wont move as the weather gets colder even after engine almost to operating temp when left in park. Do the same thing in neutral and it just takes a few seconds to get movement.

 

[Blownaway]

I agree with murfman, the pump is in the front of the trans, right behind the converter run off the crank, pretty hard to stop it from pumping.

 

[dnitzel]

Originally posted by DPKetchum

The chicken houses around here have some BIG mother diesels running the emergency generators. They come on at once a week intervals for a test. Run anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes. They come on to WIDE OPEN GOVERNOR from a cold start!I keep thinking that some of these will shoot something out of the side of them one day.

I work at a coal fired power plant and we have Caterpillar autostart fire pumps (3408's) and generator diesels (big I-6's) as well. Normal water temp in standby (off) is 100 to 120 DEGF. BUT, they have heaters on them as it gets COLD here. They start at 1800 RPM. When these start, you can feel the engine vibration in the 2 foot concrete floor 10 or 20 feet away.



I was told by a local Cat repairman that the local phone switch station had diesel back up generators outside on the roof, and more than once they autostarted and basically failed (locked up as he said). They then installed heaters on them. Don't know if that helped or not, but I'll bet it did.

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by DPKetchum

Well if that the case WHY is it on ones with NO drain back valve can run in park all day and drop them in drive and NOTHING. Run in neutral and they work fine after a few seconds. Same with a flush machine. NO fluid movement in park but there is in neutral. Ones with hard seals wont move as the weather gets colder even after engine almost to operating temp when left in park. Do the same thing in neutral and it just takes a few seconds to get movement.

I agree on that, we have a 96 47RE in the shop that has that very same trouble.



I do know for a fact that Chrysler transmissions do not flow any fluid through the cooler lines while in park. What I don't know is if idling in neutral provides anymore lubrication vs park since the pump should be working when the engine is running, it may just bypass the cooler but then again the common "hard seals" & converter drain back fault proves no fluid flow is going to the converter either while in park.

 

[DPKetchum]

G. M. / Ford and lots of others you check trans fluid in PARK. D. C. trans its in neutral! I added a trans cooler to my 1998 1500 slt with 318. After sitting a few days and starting if you drop it in reverse or drive NOTHING,I always start it now in neutral and wait a few seconds and its fine. I even start it this way after overnight now. If driven and turned off and restarted in a few hours no problem. JUST after sitting any length of time. Start it in neutral no worries. It also has Amsoil atf in it. I think when I added the cooler I cut the drain back valve out!

 

[curatchko]

Originally posted by DPKetchum

Trans pump on Chrysler trans only running in gear or neutral not in PARK.

Explain this one to me. I'm pretty familiar with an auto trans, and from my experiences, the torque converter runs the pump. When the torque converter is spinning, I can assure you that the pump is pumping. The pump is working regardless of circuitry in the trans...



Chris

 

[DPKetchum]

Well I can tell you in park no fliud pressure,Thats why check level is in neutral,NOT park. Idle all day in park and with poor seals or drainback valve Drop in gear and NOTHING. Not just trucks but Caravans,Gran cherokees. Now the regular older Cherokess with the AW4 trans such as mail jeeps thats not the case. Lots of folks with margrinal trans in these cars always let them idle in neutral before driving. G. M etc is check fliud in park.

 

[KKlepfer]

transmission debate

I have to agree with Ketchum. Not because I know a lot about trannys but because I've been shopping around for a torque converter. In the process of deciding which TC to go with I remembered a website that did address oil pressure at idle. So I went back to the site and it has more to do with the valve body than the torque converter. The website claims that with their high performance valve body there is "no converter drain-back when truck is sitting for an extended period of time and transmission oiling in "Park" (good for owners with trucks that sit idling for extended periods of time). " I found this info on the ATS site.