2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Woweeeeeee!!! New clutch slave...BOMBed?

[MikeR]

Simply incredible,I can't believe it!!! I am so happy with the results! You probably saw my recent post about blowing out the clutch slave cylinder. Just so you know,I put a hi-perf clutch (to remain nameless) in my truck that had such a stiff pedal,it took a gorilla leg to operate it(well,pretty close to it). Since it seems very few of these actually break,mine must have been a weak one,then combined with a strong clutch,well you know the rest.

I called up Napa to see if they stock just a replacement slave cylinder. They didn't have one listed for a '00 6spd,so I told him to give me one for a '96-'98 5spd... Napa United P/N 360-051.

With the help of jmbrowning,we took out the original cylinder and compared it to the new one. The Napa cylinder is made my the same company that makes the Dodge one! All the markings are the same,and made in the USA. There is one BIG difference... the NAPA one is about twice the diameter as the original,while keeping the same bolt spacing. The install went easy,but had one small snag for the 6spd. The hole where the hydraulic line fits in needed to be reamed just slightly. I'm sure the 5spds don't need to modify this. Everything bolted up perfectly and bleeding the line was easy.

Now for the big suprise... .
I was shocked to discover that I now have one of the softest clutch pedals I've ever felt! It's softer than a stock ETH pedal. I love it! No more gorilla pedal! Also the clutch engages more toward the floor rather than at the top of pedal travel. Since this cylinder is twice the size,that means there is more volume of fluid to actuate the clutch... meaning less pressure. I didn't know this would happen,but I like how it turned out. Now let's just hope it lasts!

-Mike

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'00 2500,QC,4wd,LWB,Dark Garnet,6spd,3. 54lsd,SLT,DD stage II,Psychotty air,10-level PM3,Jacobs ebrake,Isspro pyro & boost gauges,2wd-low,Airoquip fuel lines,Smittybilt nerfs,BFG 285/75 AT's
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'95 2500,Reg-cab,2wd,LWB,White/Star silver,Automatic,3. 54,SLT,Michelin 265/75

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Awesome Mike, way to go! Glad to hear of your newfound clutching happiness!

I wonder if that part will work on the ETH? Could you email me with more details? I have felt my slave was ill since day one since it is often impossible to shift into 1st and very difficult to get 2nd, acts like a bad slave cylinder. I am hoping the Napa part will bolt in but I know the clutch is different.

Vaughn

 

[Archive]

MikeR and JMBrowning... way to go! I have been holding off on buying the new clutch cause of the extra pedal pressure... I am extremely happy to hear your results. And thanks for posting about it from beginning to end. I can't believe you were the first one to have this happen, but seems like you were the first to post about it. It is vital to know what the consequences are of BOMBing, TOTAL cost, and this one is an important one.
Thanks!

 

[Diesel Freak]

WOW, gotta love the mechanical advantage of a larger slave piston diameter. What is the part number? Keep us posted for any other problems... . I am needing a clutch soon, and this modification may be incorporated in to the instalation.
-Cliff

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2001 ETH-DEE, Diablo Power Puck, Bosch 275's, Practical Solutions Boost Module and Elbow, LFT Silencer Ring Eliminator, K&N, Straight Piped http://www.mudrunner.sites.cc

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

great job Mikey, I wonder if this could be the insite to what the real problem with the eth clutches is, they have a lighter clutch spring maybe, they kept the same peddle feel by using a smaller slave cylinder. Maybe this is why they wont hold any power.
my $. 0000000002

 

[BIG BOB]

Mike,

Happy to hear of the sucess with the slave cylinder. When I read your post about destroying your factory slave cylinder I was really concern about mine, being we have the same clutch. Very happy you have found the BOMBing fix for a Hi-Performance clutch slave cylinder.

In your R&D investigation did you happen to notice if my 99 uses the same slave cylinder as your 00?

By the way, has your clutch seated so it doesn't slip anymore? Mine is working great and almost no chatter anymore.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Mike, now that the clutch engages earlier (closer to the floor) does it disengage cleanly? That would be my biggest concern if I were to replace my slave cyl. Do you have any more or less trouble getting into any gears when stopped?

By going to a larger diameter circle you are effectively putting equal pressure per square inch on the piston but multiplied by more area, so it takes less PSI to equal the same net force. The down side is, with the master cylinder being the same size, it cannot move the slave cylinder as far since there is a bigger cylinder to fill. It cuts down on your potential margin of useability with less slave piston travel. I wish travel could be adjusted should that end up being a problem, not being able to disengage cleanly. But with quality components and a well-bled system, hopefully that won't be a problem.

I think I'll take a chance on $79 and give this new slave cylinder a try to remedy my difficulty of getting into 1st, 2nd and Reverse, and forcing the synchros on all the other gears (heavy notchy shifting).

-Vaughn

 

[Andy Perreault]

Well, for anyone who's puzzling over the clutch situation, this one posting right here is certainly worth the $35 TDR membership that so many seem to complain about!!!!
Good job, Mike, thanks for letting us all gain from your experience.
Andy

 

[MikeR]

Vaughn,
Next time I see Evan,I'll pull the cylinder out of his ETH bell housing to see if they have the same rod length. The engage is about halfway of the pedal travel,it disengages clean just like stock. So far I haven't had any trouble getting into any gear at all.

Cliff,
The part number is in the 2nd paragraph of my post.

Big Bob,
This slave cylinder I installed is listed for a 5spd trans. Napa didn't have a listing for a 6spd or a '00 truck,so I told 'em to gimme one for a 5spd since it looked like the same thing. Kinda hard to say if your '99 and my '00 came with the same one. The marking on the original cylinder is: ap DB07MG602A. See if yours has that.
I'd say the clutch is seated. I did alot of screwing around at dyno day,and it didn't slip anymore.

Andy,
Well said. I can't believe anyone would cry over $35 bucks! With all the help and research we do for each other,we each have gotten our money back ten-fold easy.

Just a bit of advice for anyone wanting to replace their slave cylinder. Before filling it with fluid,make sure the hydraulic line seats all the way in the slave cylinder. The shoulder of the hydraulic line should be just a little (hair) recessed to the rim of the openeing. This is where I had a problem,but nothing a drill bit or tapered style reaming tool wouldn't easily fix.

-Mike


[This message has been edited by MikeR (edited 05-02-2001). ]

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I went and got the number off my ETH slave cylinder. It says >PA66GF43L< IMC
Looks like it might be different. My cylinder is about 5. 5-6" long, at least 1" in diameter, has the hose going right into the middle at the end, which slides on and has a mini clamp that is screwed down. The cylinder is retained by 2 bolts. Looks like a piece of cake to swap but it may be a totally different unit than the one for the5-speeds. I am going to order one so I can at least see how they compare as far as looks, they won't charge a restock fee if it's not going to work.

Vaughn

 

[MikeR]

Vaughn,

Look a numbers again. There should be another line of long numbers next to the company insignia ap. I'm sure this was the engineering number. The way it's mounted,all the writing is upside down. Here,I'll put everything that my original cylinder has on it... .

apDB07MG602A
REV 6
PATENTED
>PA66GF43< IMC

Everything else you describe sounds like my original,but I don't have a mini screw clamp at the end where the hose goes in. My hose is retained by mini roll pin... not screws. Hold off for a couple of days if you can... I'll go and look at Evan's truck on friday and let you know.

-Mike



[This message has been edited by MikeR (edited 05-02-2001). ]

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Thanks Mike, sure enough you are right. I didn't use enough Play-Doh the first time and didn't get an impression of all the numbers. The numbers were on the side facing the transmission so it was impossible to see them. The Play-Doh impression worked great #ad


GOOD NEWS: It's the SAME PN #ad
. I ordered one from NAPA today and will pick it up & install it tomorrow. I'll post results.

Vaughn

 

[willyslover]

I'm proud of ya boy #ad
#ad
glad to hear it worked. . might be worth it to have a spare one in the tool box

 

[David_VT]

BRAVO!!!


[This message has been edited by David_VT (edited 05-03-2001). ]

 

[KeithW75]

I put mine on tonight and wow there is a big difference. I had the same problem you did though and had to modify the hydraulic fitting to get it to fit. I have a '98. 5 with the 5sp.

 

[ramman]

How did you bleed the slave cylinder??I thought the plastic line and the slave were an assembly,not like the old time ones with a bleed screw in them.

[This message has been edited by ramman (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[MikeR]

ramman,
Dodge sells the master cyl/line/slave cyl as a whole assembly... lots of $$$$! I wouldn't spend that kind of money for that,so from suggestions by other members I called up Napa,to find they sell just the slave cyl alone. The nice suprise was that the Napa part is made by the same company as the Dodge one,but it's a much heavier duty piece with easier pedal effort too!

To bleed it:
Fill the slave cylinder full with the piston expanded all the way out. Attach it to the line,and while holding the slave cylinder verticle (the line will flex enough) pump the piston back and forth so the bubbles float upward. It helps to have another person uptop watching the fluid resivoir for bubbles. Of course once the bubbles stop,you're done.

-Mike

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well I stuck mine in last night, but working alone it was hard to bleed it good. When I disconnected the original unit all the fluid ran out of the system (should have left the reservoir cap ON!) so I know there is still air in there although I pretty much bled it like Mike suggested. After drilling the hole larger for the line, and filling the cylinder, I filled the reservoir again then had to siphon the fluid through the line from the bottom to get it going again. Then I quickly connected the cylinder with it vertical.

I have to mash the pedal to the floor to disengage the clutch and it's hard to get it into gear. It engages immediately off the floor but seems to have more positive engagement. Tonight I am going to have someone help me and will try re-bleeding it.

Vaughn

 

[Archive]

Vaughn, if ya don't get to it til thursday, I should be rolling by about 6pm... would be glad to stop by and help.

 

[rickhans]

Is there any chance that the clutch is not releasing all the way which would increase wear on the clutch plate?

Does the clutch linkage not have any adjustment? I have worked on a couple of small foreign cars with hydraulic clutches and they had a double nut arrangement on the rod from the clutch pedal to the cylinder which allowed for pedal adjustment.



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98. 5 24V QC 4x4 SB 3:54 5sp