You deny the press is sslective? REad this...

[Champane Flight]

Not quite.

Not quite right Robert, This nation has done things to be ashamed of, MANY things. We learn from history (at least I hope we do). This is one more reason to hold on to ones culture, to know where one comes from. Knowing ones past can help forge a future. That is what America is, it is a hodge podge of ideas from every culture in the world. We have a Democracy, similiar to Greece, we have holidays that reflect our heritage, we have freedom of religion, which is a lesson well learned from our past and being forgotten now. All the great and bad things about America have come from other cultures, we have formed them into what you see now.



The American indian cultures did not just slaughter each other at whim. Any battle was usually based on territory, a little horse stealing, and a couple of woman problems. And at times they sent there young braves out to prove themselves at battle, steal a couple of horses and sing songs about it. They had more of a sense of induvidual then we have now. They did not go out to decimate another tribe over greed or different believes.



I would like you to tell a few Ogalla Soiux that they are slaves to illusion and fantasy! I am not saying that they are superior in any way. I am saying that the white people in all there infinint wisdom put a scar on their culture that is hard to erase. We did not establish order, we took what ever we wanted by sheer numbers and greed. This is a lesson we should not repeat. They lived here for thousands of years without killing each other off and in 200 years we pretty much wiped them all out with disease, famine, and powder.



I know of plenty of areas and people on the reservations that are helping themselves. They do not have well groomed lawns or straight picket fences (Some do) , but they are trying.



Yes thank god for the US calvary at Wounded Knee, Sand creek, and several other slaughters. They taught a valuable lesson by making purses out of womans breasts, raping, and killing children and a already starving people. Great moments in history no?



So you are saying we are not on a tribal mindset now? Everybody is beating their drum and marching off to war. We are all great warriors ready to slay the foe of terror. Our great chief is telling us all not to fear, this battle is ours to win... ... Blah, Blah.



Hate to break it to you PW, but less than 80 years ago in this nation there were quite a few only White colleges.



I want to know my history, not to hang on to it, or let it rule my life. Just to know where I am from and to know which path has been followed and to or not to take that path again because of past experience.



They stay on the rez for handouts? Yea, thats what I want, free cheese and a $200. 00 a month alottment... ..... Then the whites put a liquor store (or stores) right on the border of the rez to suck that from them. Noble savage has been gone for years, now a few are trying to (As you say) pull themselves up.



Plunge you back in darkness? Sounds as if you need to reach up and turn the lights on. Our Western civilization is the one highly overrated!

 

[Sled Puller]

Tom Cruise?

 

[LarryB]

Re: Not quite.

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Sounds as if you need to reach up and turn the lights on. Our Western civilization is the one highly overrated!

As we sit in our warm houses, free from fear and desease, having just gotten breakfast from the refrigerator after a hot shower. We sit at our computer, log onto the internet and pisnmoan about how the path we have traveled is so wrong. Maybe we should turn on the lights provided by our over rated western civilization. Or move into a teepee and dine off dog. You can't have it both ways.

 

[rrausch]

MGM--Tom Cruise?

Just an example of somebody who pulled himself up from an alcoholic father to make it big. He by all accounts is a good guy. By all accounts he is a loving father. He's apparently adopted 2 kids, one of whom is mixed-race.



Champaign FLight--I don't think I want to correct many of the innaccuracies in your statement. I stand by my post. This is a free board. People are free to decide who they believe.

But one more thing, CF. These things happened 300, 200 150 years ago. GET OVER IT. You are nursing hatred. You believe the U. S. is evil. Well it is your country now. Why are you so bitter toward the U. S? E-mail me.



Western Civilization is one of the truly GREAT Civilizations in History. The sheer amount of pure Genius produced over the last 500 years is STAGGERING. The contributions by the Great Men & Women of Western Civilization to the world is ENORMOUS!



As in any powerful culture, when bad people get control of some power, whether it is Hitler or O. J. or Quislings or the Rosenbergs or Ted Bundy, or the KKK, the rest of us hunt them down and give our lives to try to stop them.

That's what I was doing as a U. S. Army Sgt. in 1971. I was helping stop a Chinese-Communist funded government from over-running another helpless little country. (Like they did to Tibet) The fact that we failed can be directly tied to the leadership at the time. If people like Col. David Hackworth had been in charge instead of people like LBJ and Haig, the end of the Communists in Vietnam would have been swift and complete.

However, Vietnam wasn't a failure. Notice that NO other country there has gone Communist since then. And for the last 30 years Communist Vietnam is just another Commie hell-hole, trying to recover from its mistake.



God I love the United States of America!

 

[Power Wagon]

Re: Not quite.

Originally posted by Champane Flight

.



Hate to break it to you PW, but less than 80 years ago in this nation there were quite a few only White colleges.

I said there ARE no "white colleges". There's everything else, though. It's acceptable for blacks to exclude whites, asians exclude everyone else, women to exclude men, and so on.



It's all so hypocritical. Either we are equal or we aren't.



Either it's ok to distinguish between skin tones, or it's not.



Either it's ok to hate the opposite sex or it isn't.



Not just allow it only in certain ways... . Hitler did that, for crying out loud.

 

[Mak]

Bush/drugs..etc

As I see it, this has very little to do with "W". It has everything to do with getting Jeb out of office and getting the "torch queen", Janet "Waco" in the governor's seat in Floida. When I see the likes of Waco and and the loud mouth, lard a$$ Rosie whats her face, together, I'm even greatful I live where I do because she may become gov of Fla if they cream Bush enough... .



Long live the Bill of Rights. . Mak

 

[Champane Flight]

Rosey picture.

Well, I can see that this is getting nowhere fast. You are saying that the USA has made NO mistakes since its conception? I am not bitter towards my country or hold any hatred towards it. I am saying that my goverment has made many mistakes and lessons should be learned by them. I myself did two tours in the same country you did. I saw things a little different than you did. I saw a country under a puppet goverment put there by the US and a majority of the people hungry. I saw a war that could not have been won by the USA with anyone in charge PERIOD!!!!! Unless of course you would want to nuke the whole country and concrete it over. I saw the military leaders fabricating body counts and sending its young men to certain death, just to give the same ground back to the enemy. According to you Robert, this was just fine as long as some other little two bit country doesen't fall to the RED menance. Dictatorships are just fine, huh?



I am not in ANY way nursing hatred. I in fact am recognizing and standing tall in the face of my and my countrys mistakes. You can wave your flag somewhere else, mine is hanging in my front yard. Only I have no illusions and fantasys toward it. You see I was taught to think for myself, and I hold that process dear.



Yes, we are the greatest, the best, the most fantastic, and just a little bigheaded no?

 

[rrausch]

Champaign Flight I am not ashamed of ANYTHING my country did. (Even when it elected Clinton!)



Has the U. S. made mistakes? OF COURSE! And those mistakes have been and are being corrected. No shame here. Go peddle Liberal innaccuracies somewhere else.



People who are ashamed of their country are chicken-livered panty-waists who have swallowed the garbage the Liberal media pumps out. Making us ashamed of the U. S. is exactly how the Liberal Media gains control over us. If we feel ashamed then they can steam-roller us with affirm. action, race quotas, dumbed-down schools, crooked polititians, etc. etc.



We have NOTHING to be ashamed about. Do we have some things to correct? Yes. Are we doing it? Most of the time. That is what a free country is all about.



And as far as Vietnam, go to Hack's website. He says it better than I ever could. You really have believed the Liberals. http://www.hackworth.com/

 

[Champane Flight]

Did I say I was ashamed? No I am not. It seems to me that some have really bought into what the rightwing conservative band is selling. They have been on a propaganda war ever since Nixon. Hackworth, He himself spoke out against the war in Vietnam.



I saw Nam with my own two eyes, I do not buy blind patriotism or Love it or leave it crap. I do love it, I loved it enough to fight for it. And still do... ... ... But I see this country with open eyes, not blinded by pride or an overopinion of what this goverment is.



I keep hearing all about the Liberal media, yet all I see is Rightwing whinners singing. Crooked politicions are found on both sides, yet all some see are what they want to see. the liberal media gaining control over us? Now that is funny. Only one thing can destroy America, closed minded, one sided thinking, and I will not back that train of thought. Of course it could be a vast liberal conspricy, (Now that sounds familiar) isn't that what Clinton claimed? I think you have a point there. Washington and our press is so busy slinging crap that thye cannot focus long enough to solve problems within. The Blamegame is alive and well... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[Power Wagon]

But it was a bunch of liberals that started and defined our stupidness in Vietnam. It was people who tried to fight a "proportional" war, or a "war run by congress and the president" that caused the mess in Vietnam. We could have easily been the victors there, but the lily livered wimps couldn't let the war be fought like a war. We tried to fight a war by political rules, and it stunk to high heaven.



I'm not surprised Hackworth would argue against Vietnam. It was one of the most ill-conceived and even worse prosecuted military excercises we've ever been on... perhaps exceeded only by a "rescue" arranged by Carter. The military exists to kill people and break stuff, and we should define who want to kill, what we want to break, get them to do it and let them come home.



We never did any of that over there, which made it one terribly expensive lesson - in lives and money. And yet, after protesting Vietnam, Clinton tried the same stupid thing in Somalia. He took a narrowly defined mission (break in, secure the food, get it to the places it needs to go, and defend yourself doing it) and then proceeded to try to add other things to it, like influence warlords and "make peace". Can't do that. The military doesn't know how. It makes war, not peace. And so, we sent our guys out on missions defined by politicians, and with resources and equipment defined by politicians again... . and look what it got us. The exact same mistakes we made in Vietnam. Maybe it's just genetic to liberals?

 

[Andy Perreault]

Re: Not quite.

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Hate to break it to you PW, but less than 80 years ago in this nation there were quite a few only White colleges.

What's that got to do with today? Less than 80 years ago, teachers were forbidden to be married, as were flight attendants (aka "Stewardesses"). When I was in middle school in the seventies, they had just started letting girls take wood shop classes and boys take home economics. That was then, this is now.



Why is there no "United Caucasian College Fund"? If there was, it would be labeled as a bigoted, racist, white supremist organization. Why is there no "Miss White America" or the "White Entertainment Awards"? If there were, they would be labeled as bigoted, racist, white supremist entities. There's a magazine called "Ebony". What if there was a magazine called "Pine"? It would be labeled as a bigoted, racist, white supremist entity, and it would be driven out of business because advertisers would be afraid to advertise in it. I saw at work a car magazine titled something like "Black Automobile". Huh? How is a car diff... ... whatever!

What if those three firemen raising the flag at the World Trade Center in that famous photo were all black? Would there have been people whining to alter history in the name of being politically correct by showing one of them as being Caucasian and another as being Hispanic? I can imagine what Jesse Jackson would be saying to that, he'd say it was racist. Why does everything have to be one way but not also the other way?

I'm sure many who read this are thinking that what I'm saying is racist. Well, read it again! Nothing I said was racist in any way. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistencies and the one-way thinking we've all been conditioned to accept as the norm. We as a society have been conditioned by the media that we must feel guilty for thinking these thoughts of simple equality. There's a difference between equality and special treatment! But when a Caucasian celebrity/athlete/politician or average joe points this out, they are immediately labeled as a racist/bigot/white supremist.

Andy



Yes, I'm white. Check that, I'm European-American. I'm also straight and I'm a male and a Christian . I'm guilty of everything! Oh, the shame I must bear! How do I sleep at night?

(FWIW, my best friend in the world is Japanese-American. His mother was forced into an internment camp during WWII, her perents lost everything. )

 

[merryman]

Hey Andy,



Well said and I agree completely, but, oh yea, I am American Indian. Yep, I still agree!!

But you know its not just in race questions, did you notice that many liberal (and politically correct) issues are one way?



I sometimes think there is only one group that is universally discriminated against--middle aged white male!

And one ideology, that is discriminated against and belittled--the basic American way

Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

Poor

Poor pitiful white folks... ...

 

[illflem]

Well said Andy, but it goes even farther than race nowadays. Why is it that a man can get nailed for sexual harassment in the workplace but women never are?



Maybe white males should be put on the endangered species list, it would be nice to have some protection.

 

[The patriot]

And what is February everyone?

Black history month.

Eric:-{}

 

[LarryB]

It goes on and on!



And what about rich and poor? Financial descrimination I say! Everyone in this country should pay the exact same dollar amount of taxes. Is the rich man's money worth less than a poor man's? Why does he pay more? Because he has lots and "I think" he doesn't need it as bad? Now thats equal!



I'm getting more and more confused about this equality thing. The more equal the government makes us, the more unequal it gets. :{

 

[Champane Flight]

I do not.

I do not feel discriminated against. I am white, from Europian ancestery, and have 2. 5 children. I still believe people can rise above predjudice and discrimination. It takes fortitude and large Heuvos at times, and when one speaks out the first thing out of everyone elses mouths is discriminitory,to many people look at only one side when it comes to race related items.



I have said that some of the indian tribes are starting their own colleges. This is mainly from isolation of the tribes (they are out in the boonies. ) It is physically impossible for some to commute some 100 miles to and from college. They are pulling themselves up! Yet they get accused of discrimination! If they sit on their duffs and do nothing, then they are worthless. . When we went to thier graduation and Pow wow three years ago, their were several whites, hispanics, and blacks graduating. All had the highest regard for the level of education they recieved.....



When there is a dispute between two races, you wouldn't just corner any person of the other race and ask him/her of his opinion. You would go directly to the both partys involved and inquire about the situation.

 

[LarryB]

True enough!



It's just that at times it seems like the white male is the only one being forced to be fair and unbiased. Nobody expects it from minorities. Then again, it could be just me.



I guess the pendulem swings slowly.

 

[Champane Flight]

Damn......

Damn we agree on something, Larry! I do believe that we as white are held to a higher standard. Is this fair? I really can't answer that. Are we capable of holding this standard? In one word, Yes.

 

[LarryB]

Re: Damn......

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Damn we agree on something, Larry! .

Will wonders never cease?

Originally posted by Champane Flight

. . I do believe that we as white are held to a higher standard. Is this fair?

I agree again. (I hope this is not a trend)



Not only is this unfair to whites, but unfair to others as well. Why should any American be expected to live up to lower standards? Everyone should be expected to stand up.