Fixing to do doubles towing

[EricBu12]

I meant double and tripples Commercial... 105' Long, 105,000#...



this will be my first rv double ... I found a poss. remedy for the high ball mount. First remove the ball itself and grind a flat spot on it, then get a length of 2" recever and weld it on top of the mount. then I can use my trucks drop hitch with ball. i

 

[EricBu12]

Here is the thing on the 10 deadliest roads in America



http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/7844269/

 

[drtrox]

Hey Eric, you're starting to scare me!!!!!!!!!!

I found a poss. remedy for the high ball mount. First remove the ball itself and grind a flat spot on it, then get a length of 2" recever and weld it on top of the mount. then I can use my trucks drop hitch with ball. i

 

[EricBu12]

Why? just because something is welded???



this will be a custom setup and I am having someone weld it tomorrow by the way. . and he mentioned a reinforcing strap around the box to the mount... Like I said, the weight of th 2nd is Class 2 if that. . very light. and class 1 next week (empty trailer). . I will take a pic of it when I get home Sat. should be pretty good.

 

[drtrox]

No problem with the welding. Just thinking about how far to the rear that set-up is going to put your trailer ball from the bumper. We're talking a LOT of leverage here! If you insist on making your Class 0. 5 hitch into a receiver why dont you at least consider having the receiver stub welded under that U that you mounted to your rear bumper and keep the back end of it flush with the back of the U. That way you will minimize the leverage on the hitch mount and bumper.



Don

 

[EricBu12]

That is good thinking Don but too late right now for time... think about leverage. . how about the 10 feet behind the wheels!. . The 2nd trailer is 2 axle and running empty, Shouldn't do too much. I will evaluate it after several turns and 20 miles. . if it is still tight, on to Moab!

 

[Grizzly]

Here is the thing on the 10 deadliest roads in America



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7844269/

I looked at the web site. It's the deadliest in the state of Utah and one of the deadliest in the country, as you said. That's a good site because you can look up any county in any state. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[EricBu12]

Well don I'm taking your advice on this...



The pintle hitch is coming off and a box is being welded to the bottom of the U shape plate and then the plate will be welded to the bumper. the box at the rear will have a gusset support for the weight leverage but at I said it won't be more than 200# ... . this will lower the mount even more and reduce the rear extention to like a pickup setup. A couple of the plates and the bolts at the top edge of the rear will get a tack to keep from backing out. My 76 yrold dad is the one working with the welder and he is taking the bolts off and such. bolts will go back in if the shank is not too long without the thickness of the pintle mount... . Will take a pic of it when I get home sat but might not be posting the pic til later.

 

[BrianJ]

I double tow 2 quads (14' trailer about 2,300lbs loaded) behind my 33' RV and I spent all of about $300 to have a shop custom weld a hitch receiver to my frame rails, rated and warrantied by the shop as a class III. No offense intended here, but I personally would not tow double with the setup that you have there. Steel or not, the bumper is not designed to take the torsional loads it is going to see towing a trailer.



If it was me, I would do it right the first time and not take any chances, because the liabilty involved is not just damage to your bumper or dune buggy, rather the families traveling along with you on the highway. There was a rather large lawsuite and settlement here a couple years ago because a double towed trailer broke away from a "rigged up" hitch on the RV and killed a couple members of a family. Again, no offense but seeing the pictures of your pieced together solution reminded me of that lawsuit.



One guys opinion, if you're going to double tow, which already has risks, don't short change for a rigged up solution, spend a few bucks and do it right (to the frame with reinforcements).

 

[BrianJ]

As a further note, as a result of that lawsuite NO RV dealer (that I could find) in the metro-Denver area will install hitches on an RV. I had to go out of town to Loveland, CO to get my custom hitch fabricated.

 

[JHaggard]

Seeing in how everyone is giving their two cents I will throw mine in too. The bumper on his 5er is also the mount for the ramp/door. In the pictures you can see the hinges for the ramp/door on the bumper. So it was designed by the manufacture to hold weight, which if your 5er is not a toy hauler then the bumper is there for looks primarily and not for any structural reason. I think you will be fine EricBu12, but what do I know, my CTD only has 18,000 miles on it. I not part of the million - zillion mile club

 

[BrianJ]

The bumper on his 5er is also the mount for the ramp/door. In the pictures you can see the hinges for the ramp/door on the bumper. So it was designed by the manufacture to hold weight, which if your 5er is not a toy hauler then the bumper is there for looks primarily and not for any structural reason.

Static weight on the bumper from the ramp is not the same as the tortional forces applied towing a trailer. The bumper is designed to hold weight from the ramp and associated weight from loading (atv, motorcycle) in one direction. That is hardly the same as holding 2k, with much higher tortional forces, in a towing situation. Not to mention, IIRC, most toyhauler ramps are rated from 800-1000 lbs in capacity, so the weight the bumper is designed to hold (in one direction) would be designed accordingly.

 

[EricBu12]

Brian,,



This ramp and bumper is rated for 2500# for loading. the bumper on the inside top has an angle Iron that is connected to the floor frame and beams... the bumper metal is 1/8" thick and the 1/4" plate around it will be welded to it. as I said, the pintle mount is off and a receiver stub will be mounted to the bottom of the U so in a sense, the whole box structure of the bumper will be the hitch. we will gusset the box tube for those other forces but it should be much better than the way it was in the above pics.

 

[EricBu12]

thinking about weak hitches, go to a few sites and see the square bumper hitch they rate for class 3. !!. . 2 skinny U-bolt to a receiver box. !



Oh and I found out the welder has a plasma welder so not only a better penetration, it will be a pretty smooth weld. Can't wait to see it done.

 

[EricBu12]

Well now yet again another change... the welder came up with an idea and will do it tomorrow.



Take everything off, then weld up a 2" square pipe (Hitch style) from frame to frame rail like that Vari hitch, cut a hole in the bumper for another pipe to pass through to meet that other pipe and weld to it and weld around the bumper opening so everything is sanitary. this has the feel of a class 3 at least. . very stout and will have a center support.

 

[BrianJ]

Well now yet again another change... the welder came up with an idea and will do it tomorrow.



Take everything off, then weld up a 2" square pipe (Hitch style) from frame to frame rail like that Vari hitch, cut a hole in the bumper for another pipe to pass through to meet that other pipe and weld to it and weld around the bumper opening so everything is sanitary. this has the feel of a class 3 at least. . very stout and will have a center support.

Sounds like that would beef it up. One question, if you are already looking at too high of a ball mount (tongue high on the trailer), why don't you just go from a welded cross member (as mentioned above between frame rails) to the bottom of the bumper with a receiver tube, welding the receiver tube to the bottom plate of the bumper. This would help eliminate any risk of a hole cut in the bumper decreasing it's structural integrity.



Basically an "H" shape, welding a receiver tube to the fabricated cross member and underside of bumper. Additionally, you could also weld some 1/4" plate on the bottom side of the receiver tube (on the bumper end) with slots for the safety chains.



Just some thoughts trying to help out... (I did a lot of research on this when I did mine)

 

[BrianJ]

PS, no offense meant with any of my posts. I have been reading your posts on here for long time with nothing but respect. Just trying to help out with something I went through myself a couple years ago.

 

[EricBu12]

No offence taken Brian. .



I'm no engineer, I drive truck for a living. . I have always been mechanically minded and try to think things out. . I have those metal pieces for the chains, just weld those up. .



the fame is pretty high above the bottom of the bumper... Bumper is over 7" tall. . don't know if the tubes welded on the bottom of eachother will reach down to the bottom of the bumper or not. . I will relate that with dad for an idea to give the welder.

 

[EricBu12]

Well the hitch is done. It is just about like I described above... the bar comes through the bumper right near the bottom and is very clean looking. he took the chain tabs I had bolted through the bumper and welded them on the side of the receiver bar. then he welded the bolt holes on the bumper shut and groun them smooth. all very sanitary amd with my drop hitch, should be low enough for the trailer to be sorta nose high but not bad.



Thanks to all for Ideas and criticisims I really do appreciate them. . all total this cost $212 for the welder to do it. I am out only 80 for the pintle and a little steel that can be used for other projects so not bad. anyway, Dad took a couple pics as it was being built so I will upload them saturday.



Eric

 

[steved]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I don't believe it's safe to double tow.

IMO, towing doubles with a set up like this is safer (as far as sway control) than towing doubles with a big truck because you don't have the extra pivot point and the slop associated with the pintle ring on the dolly. His setup is similar to those that run in Canada... they utilize an additional fifth wheel built as part of the lead wagon... no dolly needed.



Now, towing that much weight... I'm not a fan of it, but its not as bad as some I've seen. I think Texas is the worst from what I've seen in my travels... they let anything on the road in Texas...



steved