Return of the big block?

[RVTRKN]

Prices are up there but the CTD is still more economical. I filled up yesterday at $4. 04 per gal. ($100. 00) which was only 2/3 of a tank and was happy about it. I've seen Diesel at $4. 29 here in So Cal, but I did have over 400 miles on the previous tank and still had 1/3 of a tank left. Try that on a big block gasser. Over half of those miles was towwing my 5ver as well.



Steve...

 

[AHarris]

Stop the chicken little dance

Oil just dropped $4 a barrel today. Hopefully this means the commodity bubble that's driving oil up is starting to bust. The weak dollar right now is the primary reason why oil is up. It went down from over $110/barrel to $106 today. Hopefully it won't go back up tomorrow--you never know--this is a good sign. We'll see how it looks later in the week. From what I read, the market fundamentals (supply is up, demand is falling due to recession) don't support high oil prices which are currently inflated by an artificial bubble created by a currently weak dollar and investors zeroing on on commodities such as oil, sugar, corn, coffee, etc. I'm no economist and just an average joe who goes to Bloomberg.com and reads The Economist--I think those are decent sources of information... much better than CNN or crap rags such as the New York Times.

Grasmo have some faith in the USA. Revolution? Relax, Chicken Little! We are a great country and we will make it though this crisis (a speed bump compared to the biggies we've been through in the last 100 years such as the Depression, WWII, or 9/11) just fine and still drive our CTDs. It insults me to hear people talk about how weak our country is just because we are paying more for fuel. Over here in Germany, gas is $8/gallon and diesel is $7/gallon. My friends in Norway are paying $10/gallon. The Autobahn is packed with tractor trailers and cars every day! A lot of people ride their bikes and walk here too. We (US military) pay US prices on base at AAFEES--I filled up today on gas for $3. 50/gal.

Interesting statistic--in the 1980s during the last (adjusted for inflation) gas spike, the average American household paid 6% of their budget on fuel. Now we are paying around 4-5%. Adjusted for inflation, the price we paid for gas (or diesel) in 1984 equals roughly $3. 25/gal.

Back on topic: I've never owned a big block but a few years ago I did tow a 6,000lb TT across the country with a--don't laugh--1999 318 Dodge 1500 with 3. 92 gears and a cold air intake. Got 8mpg, slowed down to 45 in 2d gear turning 3800 on hills, and burned out 2 rear ends on a 1500 mile trip. For me, gas engines are great for cars but I'll give up camping before I'll ever use one of those damn things to tow a camper with again.

Thanks for listening and y'alll have a blessed day! USA#1!!

 

[snuff]

just a note we still pay less than alot of european countries.

plus who would want to get into a wreck with a little gas mizer?????:--):--)

 

[BLevy]

I have v10. It gets 7mpg towing 17000lbs. ,11mpg empty. Give me a turbo,intercooler, 6 speed and free flowing dual exhaust and I bet it would hold its own against any stock diesel pickup. P. S. I drive only diesel cars. (40yrs. )and plan to buy 2009 turbo diesel. I think you guys are missing the point. Economy is only one of the many reasons for driving a diesel. By the way in the next 5 years the disparity between gas and diesel prices will disappear.

 

[grasmo]

What I meant about the U. S. being weak is the way our constitution is treated like garbage, how worthless the U. S. dollar is and these jerks going to funerals of dead soldiers being disrespectful to their survivors and people are not cracking there skulls for the disrespect. I can't tell you about politics because they keep it very secretive and what they do release is mostly lies etc. . I do know I love diesels. I'm hoping the demand for diesel doesn't make it cost prohibitive. There certainly is a demand for the stuff, Railroads, ships,aircraft?, Heavy equipment,etc. , etc. ,etc.

 

[JDiepstra]

I have v10. It gets 7mpg towing 17000lbs. ,11mpg empty. Give me a turbo,intercooler, 6 speed and free flowing dual exhaust and I bet it would hold its own against any stock diesel pickup. P. S. I drive only diesel cars. (40yrs. )and plan to buy 2009 turbo diesel. I think you guys are missing the point. Economy is only one of the many reasons for driving a diesel. By the way in the next 5 years the disparity between gas and diesel prices will disappear.

Hmmm, let me take my v10, bomb it, and then I bet I could hold my own with any stock diesel pickup.



Are you talking empty acceleration? Heavy towing? Or even MPG's?



Let me know when your mods are done, I am sure we can find someone with a stock truck to test that. It would be interesting.

 

[klenger]

I have v10. It gets 7mpg towing 17000lbs. ,11mpg empty. Give me a turbo,intercooler, 6 speed and free flowing dual exhaust and I bet it would hold its own against any stock diesel pickup. P. S. I drive only diesel cars. (40yrs. )and plan to buy 2009 turbo diesel. I think you guys are missing the point. Economy is only one of the many reasons for driving a diesel. By the way in the next 5 years the disparity between gas and diesel prices will disappear.

Saying that a bombed V10 with more displacement than a CTD will "hold its own any stock diesel pickup" isn't really comparing apples to apples is it.



In any case, I hope your 2009 CTD works out well for you. I'd love to buy a new truck sometime, but sure don't want to give up a paid off truck, 21 MPG, and zero problems for the unknown.

 

[Wiredawg]

My $. 02 on the big block gasser vs. our Cummins diesel:



1. Performance. The gasser would have to have at least comparable towing performance to the Cummins. I own a 17K lb 5th wheel and right now there ain't a gasser that'll pull it at 70mph on the straights aways w/ passing power to spare and pull 7% grades at 55mph.



2. Fuel mileage. I get 14. 5 mpg driving my '02 dually empty (9,600 lbs) driving it like I stole it and get 10 mpg towing the 5er. I imagine a gasser with the necessary gearing would get 8 to 10 mpg empty and 3 to 4 mpg towing.



I know the price of fuel is hurting a lot of folks. My trucks and 5er are paid for so I don't have to balance payments plus pay these high fuel prices. Honestly, I can better afford to pay for fuel now than when I was overseas in 1982. And camping has never been about saving money because it would take much longer to offset the prices of the truck, trailer and fuel compared to the cost a car and hotels. In all the countries I've been to in the world, none had trucks or RVs to match our's in the US.



Finally, America is the greatest nation in the world and we have the best way of life IMHO. No matter what!



Wiredawg

(AKA: Chief Master Sergeant (Retired) Ron Prothro)

 

[RVTRKN]

I have v10. It gets 7mpg towing 17000lbs. ,11mpg empty. Give me a turbo,intercooler, 6 speed and free flowing dual exhaust and I bet it would hold its own against any stock diesel pickup. P. S. I drive only diesel cars. (40yrs. )and plan to buy 2009 turbo diesel. I think you guys are missing the point. Economy is only one of the many reasons for driving a diesel. By the way in the next 5 years the disparity between gas and diesel prices will disappear.

With those upgrades it would probably perform as good as my 07 or 04 CTD but after 150,000 miles it would be worthless in retail value as well as dependability, keeping in mind of the cost of the upgrades, per cost of ownership. I could install a blower (much better than a turbo) and extreme upgrades on a big block but the engine would fall apart in 100,000 miles. I can just imagine what your mpg would be, just make sure theres a gas station every 150 miles. My CTD can go 500 miles on a tank with some to spare towing my 5ver, and empty its even better.

 

[tmacc]

Hi Ron, Long time, no see. I couldn't agree more w/ the above statement. This is a great counrty and we all benefit from our standard of living. Yeah, high deisel prices do suck, but it could be a lot worse. It might get a little worse before it gets better fuel wise, that is.

Some one ask for numbers to compare, so I did a little figuring. It's pretty rough even if you don't figure inflation or $200/barrel. Based on fuel I bought yesterday.



Gas motored truck. Service life of 100K Miles.

100,000 div. by 8MPG = 12,500 gal. x $3. 25 = $40,625





CTD truck. Service life of 100K miles. (I know, I know. Bare w/ me here)

100,000 div. by 14 MPG = 7143 gal. x $3. 88 = $27,714



So, putting the difference of the diesel option in savings for 8 years (I drive about 12k a year now) at 5% blah, blah, blah... only earns you less than a $1000 interest. Sort of a no brainer, eh?



I feel so much better about the diesel option now, don't you?

 

[grasmo]

I agree ... I love America I just hate to see us giving it away. Freedom comes with a price. War aint what it used to be... when my dad served in Korea they shot who they wanted when they wanted and believe me the new way of fighting wars is not as dangerous for our adversaries as it used to be. The world is changing quickly and I guess I better get use to it.

 

[tmacc]

Grasmo, Don't get me wrong. Our country is not w/o it's faults. My father also served in Korea and then spend the next 20+ years in the Air Force. He's not a fan of the current conflict we find ourselves in. I'll say no more so this doesn't devolve into a thread about something other than gas v diesel.

So, how has your '07. 5 treated you? Milage?

 

[Wiredawg]

Hi Tom! Great to hear from you. I'll shoot you a PM to catch up since Maryland.



Ron

 

[SmithMark]

I did the calculations. My son drives a half ton with the hemi and averages 12 mpg. I drive a 96 dually diesel and get 15 mpg. right now gas is $3. 20 and Diesel is $3. 99. When I do the math, the cost per mile is exactly the same for the two. So if you get greater than 3mpg less with the gasser, stay with the diesel.

 

[tmacc]

Yes, you are correct about the 3 mpg difference being the same long term cost of fuel at the prices listed above. However, I don't think your going to use a 1/2 ton truck to pull anything substantial dispite what the Toyota adds portray. The painter we use has a fairly new Chevy 2500 4x4 6L and he's decided to get a 1500 w/ the fuel management system due to the poor gas milage of the current rig. It will be interesting to see how that works out. There aren't too many flat stretches of interstate around the immediate Park City area for that thing to become a 4 banger.

 

[grasmo]

Tmacc I've had a lot of problems w/mine ... see my other posts... waiting on an offer from manufacturer ..... lemon law... . I will say I love my other cummins' 97 & 99 ... . & I am sure I will absolutely love my new cummins when I get it, provided I get one that does not have any bugs. mileage 11. 3 overhead in town no load 12. 6 highway. My other cummins get 19-21 pulling a 6000 lb trailer on the highway hand calc. I really have also considered trying to find a cream puff 5. 9 !

 

[RRuggles]

Return of the big block

The other day when my wife was driving the 6. 7L I was fooling with the calculator. I assumed 8 mpg with gas at $3. 33 and 12 mpg with diesel at $4. 15 and the diesel was still several cents less per mile than the gas.

 

[johncameron]

The painter we use has a fairly new Chevy 2500 4x4 6L and he's decided to get a 1500 w/ the fuel management system due to the poor gas milage of the current rig. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

My brother has a GM 5. 3L with the fuel management system and he can get between 17-18MPG on the highway enpty. Hitch anything ot the trailer hitch that drags wind#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!





John

 

[jcarey]

Grasmo,

I had a GMC 5. 7L that got 11. 5 average combination highway/city driving. Our CTD got an 18 mpg average for the same driving combination.





You need to compare the mileage of the vehicles in question. Based on the comments above, let's say the gas engine of chioce gets about 8-10 mpg empty while the CTD gets about 17-18. In our comparison, we’ll use the high gas figure and the low CTD figure.



17/8 = 2. 125. So, in this scenarios, the CTD gets over twice the mpg of the gas engine. (The CTD goes 2. 125 times farther per gallon of fuel compared to the gas engine. )



Rounding the average down from 2. 125 to 2 stills means the CTD averages twice the mpg per gallon of the gas engine. In other words it takes twice the fuel for the gas engine to go the same distance as the CTD.



So, for this engine comparison, the price per gallon of diesel would have to reach twice the price of a gasoline of gas for the gas engine before you would even reach a brake-even point.



Now, that doesn’t take into consideration the engine surcharge for the CTD.

 

[AH64ID]

Dad has a 97 454 2500 4wd burb... It has 190+K on it, for most of its life it has gotten 11, towing was 4-9 (depending on trailer)... . The fall dad bought his cummins he spent some $$ on the burb, headers, hi-flow cats, hi-flow 3. 5" exhaust. . he also already had elec fans, chiped, airraid intake and synthetic fluid everywhere... He now gets 13 on the hwy and 12 around town (hasn't towed with it since he bought the cummins)...





So lets see 13 vs 18, 18 is 38% more, gas here is 3. 49, Diesel has to go above 4. 80 to make it more per mile... .



Towing, don't even think its close... last time dad pulled with the burb he got 7, trailer weighs half of what he got 12 towing with the diesel... That means diesel would have to be 5. 51 to me more per mile... .



Yep diesel is the way to go...





Heck its only an average of 5 cents per mile more to drive my diesel than my tacoma (and that was before the fuel price rose, and my truck is still breaking in)... Thats only 5K cost of fuel in 100K miles, So about 30% more fuel for 37% more hp, 130% more tq, 117% more cargo space, 101% more payload, and 110% more towing ability... small price to pay...



Yeah, I will keep my diesel.