i want to learn to weld...

[GHarman]

oops, forgot to include the link to the pics..... Cummins Page

THenningsen, The beads look alot better! There are some fill issues along the toe of the weld. I can't tell if you have undercut, if so, pause a little longer. I like what you are doing, especially the bead in the third picture. Clean up your welds and lay a bead between the existing beads to tie the other beads together. You are not looking for deep penetration. That is another issue. Get those weld beads down to a consistant performance level. I definitely see your improvementOo. !

Ryan, Deeper penetration can be achieved with a differend rod. In DCEP, that would be 6010 or 6011. I have welded 1/4" plate square groove with a 1/8" opening using 1/8" 6010 in three passes (API-650 code work). You can use the 7018 as a fill and cap but I would not use 3/32" 7018. 1/4" plate can be beveled and the root opening reduced or eliminated to reduce heat input, but it depends on the application and requirements. Again, it is all experiment and experience unless you have a written procedeure to follow. GregH

 

[DJW]

GHarman, interesting re. weight of steel, when working in a Forge a formula was, square the quarters and divide by 6 for one foot length round bars and divide by 5 for square, but for the square there was also another factor involved, whereas the solid round was accurate enough. All forgings were calculated by weight, as starting with a 4 inch billet could end up with a pipe flange with a outside diameter far greater than 4 inches. Some years ago we needed to unload a strapped pile of steel plates and the foreman was not sure if the boom of the crane could take it, as there was no indication of the weight on the pile. I used the measurement and calculated the weight and allowed extra, and it was under safe working load. Naturally it was the foreman's concern so we waited for the waybill, I was on the safe side by 22 lbs. Each trade and craft have aids to simplify the work. I was never that good identifying steel by the grindstone sparks, (didn't stay lite long enough for me) but some are real wizards and a great help.

 

[DJW]

GHarman, on the welding front, once welding hinges on a winery doors, the engineer (I use that term advisedly) he stipulated in writing to use 7080 LH and 3 DOWNHILL PASSES on the pin portion of the hinge. That whole job was downhill specified using 7080 LH. Of the welder who was doing the main portion of the welding, I remarked to him of the downhill trip, he said after the rain there was about 2 inches of water on the concrete floor as the roof had not been completed, and with that ginger-beer standing next to him dropped a rod, picked it out of the water and started welding with it. Some Code Job! In Earthquake country?

 

[Coalsmoke]

Sorry guys, I've been falling behind online. Been working 7 days a week as many hours as I can stand trying to get some stuff finished for customers before I close up shop. Light is at the end of the tunnel (and its not a freight train:-laf )

Coalsmoke... I'm a police officer myself. If you got any questions, let me know. -- email address removed --

Thank you, I appreciate it and will keep it in mind.



Greg gave good advice about the table and cart, build them to suit your needs. I have business associates that have 3+ welding tables per person in their shop none of which are no less than 3/4" thick plate tops, one table is 12X16, and the others are usually a bit smaller. For me though, I have no need for a table that size, most of my work is either in the field or in the shop and small or too large to put on a table and is built on the floor, no real medium work for me for some reason. So, in the shop I have 3 4x8 tool benches, but I also have a designated welding table that folds down out of the way that is only about 3'x4' with a 1/4" top. It's a small project table and at the same time folds flat to the wall so if I need the full floor space for a larger project I have it. I'm working in a 25X40 something sized area, so space is a little bit of a premium. Anyways, all I'm getting at is don't worry about buddy who says you can't have a table unless its at least 5/8 thick and has a milled perfectly flat surface, etc. :-laf (Unless of course you want to mock up pre-fab pieces to . 005").



As for the cart, make it your own and have fun.



I'll post a couple of pictures here of what works for me.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I forgot to mention that the table has square tube support members welded in on the underside like Greg mentioned. I've got to get back to work, I'll try to catch up on this thread later tonight.

Have a good one guys.

 

[DJW]

GHarman, Ooops 7018 (one does make errors at times) It was not until 1954 in Canada I ever knew there was Straight and Reverse in welding methods, no wonder the Scots welders failed on welding tests. In Britain it was all AC. far simpler machines, most no wearing parts, even gas motor driven were AC. Does not make sense build, an electric motor to produce electricity to weld with, and all with wearing parts. Yes and many were Lincolns, why they didn't introduce those machines in the USA I have no idea. (must have loved Arc-Blow) A plant I worked in just before I left the UK, there were about 7 boys, yes they were boys the oldest 16 years of age, the rest 15, in one part, making up and welding rectangular gasoline tanks for the middle east, they were rectangular so they could be stacked on barges, so no space wasted. They all confirmed to the Petroleum Inst. at the time tested stamped etc. At that time they used the usual hand held shield so a one hand weldor. It's just what one gets used to.

 

[GHarman]

DJW, There sure are different takes on the "welding codes" . Thanks for your input. We are glad to hear about your experiencesOo. .

Those weights on steel are from an official source. I dont recall exactly where. I have used them for years and are very close unless you are estimating weight on a highly alloyed steel, that contains tungsten or any other dense elements. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

As usual, Coalsmoke, posting pictures of welding equipment generates some questions.

What are the two welders on your cart? One of your welding cables looks like it's got some sort of abrasion-resistant sleeve over it. What is that? That's a nice looking swing-arm lamp you've got mounted there... anything special about it? I assume the tubes on the sides are electrode holders. What electrodes do you have in there, and are they all 36"? How in the world does one weld with a 36" electrode hanging off the stinger!?

The tubes you're welding - are those aluminum or stainless? I notice you've got a series of short beads on those - did you eventually join them into 1 continuous bead, or did they stay as they are in the picture? What kind of welding helmet is that on the stool?

My welder is a little Maxstar 150 (so tiny and portable that it comes with a shoulder strap!), but I'm thinking I should make myself a little cart for it. Seems like "The Thing" for welders to have.

Ryan

 

[GHarman]

Weights of steel shapes

More Welding Trivia, Weight per foot of pipe and tube can be had from the manufacturer, or a "Frankland Pipefitters Handbook", including excellent guidelines for building rolling offsets, offsets and branches.

I used to have a "RYALL" structural steel handbook that gave weights per foot of various H, I beams, Channel and angle, but seem to have missplaced it whilst packing for my move! Those books are out there and the info may be available online. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

Those books are out there and the info may be available online. GregH

I've found my local Half Price Books to be a minor gold mine in old timey technical books. Last week I picked up a copy of New Lessons in Arc Welding by Lincoln from 1981 for $5. And Machine Tool Practices from 1982, also $5.

Today I got a copy of Handbook of Engineering Materials from 1955 for $7. Huge book - bigger than Machinery's Handbook.

Used bookstores don't seem to know the value of old technical books. They think the information in them is no longer valuable.

Ryan

 

[GHarman]

The Desk set from the old American Society for Metals would be a real find. When I was a Welding Engineering Tech, many years ago. That was one of the resources we used OFTEN! There was SO MUCH information in there. That was long before the High Speed Internet. Those Desk Sets were horrendously expensive for the time. One book was several hundred dollars!!!

Everything you wanted to know about metallurgy and compatibility and process for most any Metal or alloy available at the time. Just a heads-upOo. . GregH

 

[GiesJ]

My favorite work book is Megyesy's "Pressure Vessel Handbook". I use it almost daily at work...



A wealth of information beyond PV design. For you weekend warriors, excellent sections on layout, measures and weights and of course design. A great chart for optimizing tank design to minimize material needed for a particular volume. I love this book and have all sorts of pages marked.



On another subject, here is a unique tank that we are doing some repair work on - 3000 psi operating pressure. Removal by airarc and repair with 7018 rods. It is interesting to see different welders gravitate to different rod diameters. I have seen everything from 3/32" to 1/4" run here. This particular job has preheat and postweld heat treatment.



Outside removal (that's over an inch deep): #ad




I don't have any good shots of weld beads on this one, but here is the overall vessel. It has 3-1/4" nominal shell thickness. The heavy duty forging is part of the closure mechanism:

#ad




On an unrelated note, Rbattle - I am going to start a new thread regarding some cool old equipment in our shop - a plate shear that can handle 3/4" carbon steel!!



Greg - I have an article on abrasion resistant plate that goes along with your little repair job. I would like to mail to you, could you PM me your address?

 

[GHarman]

GiesJ, Address on the way. Will the repair require X-Ray? What is the base material? Time and temperature for pre and post heats? What code? Do you have a WPS? Thanks for posting this! Can you elaborate on this a little more?



DJW, This job is a great example of Code Work and the necessity of following the appropriate code and procedure, closely.



THenningsen, RyanB, I realize that you are just beginning. These examples are important, showing the necessity for process and procedure.



GregH

 

[GiesJ]

Thanks!
The vessel shell is SA-516 Gr 70 N, Preheat min per procedure is 50° but I have my guys at least at 200°F. 100% RT and PWHT is 2 hrs, 45min. ASME VIII Div 1. Repair work is from some RT examination that found excessive porosity and slag. I feel most of that was from the stops/starts of the SMAW passes.

 

[GiesJ]

Greg - I found the article in question online. So here's a link for everyone: Cracking the case: How to choose the right filler metals to weld AR plate

thefabricator.com is a great website for research! Hope that helps.
The first photo in this article - Starting a portable GTAW business: Part I: Know your tools and skills
is mine and made the cover of one of their issues!
jason

 

[GHarman]

Thanks!

The vessel shell is SA-516 Gr 70 N, Preheat min per procedure is 50° but I have my guys at least at 200°F. 100% RT and PWHT is 2 hrs, 45min. ASME VIII Div 1. Repair work is from some RT examination that found excessive porosity and slag. I feel most of that was from the stops/starts of the SMAW passes.

That is exactly the importance of striking the arc in the weld zone away from the start of the weld, travel to the start and progress through the arc strike, burning it out. Porosity forms at the starts, more often than not! This is a basic skill that should be learned by anyone practicing the SMAW process.



For the benefit of the novices could you breakout the nomenclature into words, ie; RT, PWHT.



Congratulations on getting your picture published. That alone is an accomplishment. Keep 'em comingOo. . GregH

 

[GHarman]

The Fabricator

Carring GiesJ post a bit further. Here is a list of articles that will add more depth to the learning curve. Thanks Jason for the web site. GregH



Arc Welding Related Articles on thefabricator.com

 

[GiesJ]

RT = Radiographic examination (commonly called X-ray)
PWHT = post weld heat treatment
SMAW = shielded metal arc welding (stick)
SA-516 Gr 70 N = Normalized, pressure vessel quality plate, min tensile strength = 70 ksi
ASME VIII = Code of construction for building pressure vessels and heat exchangers
Hope that helps,

 

[rbattelle]

I have seen everything from 3/32" to 1/4" run here.

Wow, that is very interesting. It's nice to know that it's okay to prefer a certain type of electrode. I assumed that at the pro level everyone would use 1/8" or larger electrodes.

On an unrelated note, Rbattle - I am going to start a new thread regarding some cool old equipment in our shop - a plate shear that can handle 3/4" carbon steel!!

Oh, man, I can't wait. I love big iron. Is that roller assembly you've got that PV on custom? Is that your shop that it's sitting in? Any idea how much that sucker weighs? What machines are you using to weld that thing? How in the world do you obtain proper penetration (full?) on 3-1/4" steel?

That is exactly the importance of striking the arc in the weld zone away from the start of the weld, travel to the start and progress through the arc strike, burning it out. Porosity forms at the starts, more often than not! This is a basic skill that should be learned by anyone practicing the SMAW process.

Greg, when doing this are you moving rapidly from the strike to the weld start position? Or are you moving at "normal" welding speed for the application?

Ryan

 

[GHarman]

Wow, that is very interesting. It's nice to know that it's okay to prefer a certain type of electrode. I assumed that at the pro level everyone would use 1/8" or larger electrodes.



Greg, when doing this are you moving rapidly from the strike to the weld start position? Or are you moving at "normal" welding speed for the application?



Ryan

Ryan

The size of the rod may be dictated by the Weld Proceedure Specification.



Move rapidly, holding a short arc, especially with Low Hydrogen electrodes.

GregH