i want to learn to weld...

[Coalsmoke]

Haha, first I'd put away the 6011, sell the AC welder buy a DC welder and a box of 11018, and enough propane for a proper preheat. A couple of temp sticks wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Greg I've heard nothing but good about those Synchro 350s, as long as you have the juice to run them. I'm of the opinion that its how you wiggle the worm that counts

 

[THenningsen]

Now that I'm progressing in my welding, I am looking to start a few projects. Problem is that I have no way to cut anything. So..... tell me what you all recommend. I can't imagine that I would cut anything much larger than 2-3" square tubing and angle. That being said, will an abrasive chop saw do what I need or do I need to move up to a band saw? As always money is an issue as well as space. I know a decent band saw can run upwards of $1k, same for a plasma cutter. What should do I need to get to meet my basic fabrication needs?

 

[DJW]

GHarman, I thought 6011 went out with the Ark. In 1960 in a high pressure vessel shop, cleaning out the tool room someone found an old tin of 6010, he brought it in and some of the weldors had never even seen it, so were delighted to try, in most shops at that time it was called Splatter Rod, no kidding. Other than occasionally 5P, I've never used 6010 or 6011 since 1960 and then only for tacking. One time on a construction job I was told that their 6010 was giving them trouble, I asked where they kept it, the reply, "In the Oven where else?", I told them that kind of rod needed moisture in the coating, and got laughed out of the room by all assembled. Months later on another job one of those present at the time came to me and apologized for their ignorance. One time went for a job as a fitter also had to weld, took a welding test, (just appearance) all the rod except 7018 was in a heated cabinet, the 7018 was on the floor. Often one wonders how things hold together. I really enjoyed working in steel fabrication, in 1960s using stainless steel, one's overtime equaled your wages, and union wages at that, and they pretty well kissed the ground you walked on. Sadly most of those plants now in Japan or other countries in the East.

 

[GHarman]

THenningsen, Some folks use a chop saw. I personally dont like them cause they are noisy and require respiratory protection and leave fines all over the place. I have a portable band saw. A little more expensive than a chop saw but handy for compound angle cuts. Mine is a Porter Cable that is close to 25 years old. The new Milwauke Portable Saws are the best. I have used them at work. About $300-$400. In my opinion are the best. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

There is no support manufacturer to contact for instructions. Tell me how you would handle this! GregH

Step 1: log onto TDR. Step 2: navigate to this thread. Step 3: hit "Post Reply". Seriously, what's the right answer?

Now that I'm progressing in my welding, I am looking to start a few projects. Problem is that I have no way to cut anything. So..... tell me what you all recommend. I can't imagine that I would cut anything much larger than 2-3" square tubing and angle. That being said, will an abrasive chop saw do what I need or do I need to move up to a band saw? As always money is an issue as well as space. I know a decent band saw can run upwards of $1k, same for a plasma cutter. What should do I need to get to meet my basic fabrication needs?

Honestly, it's amazing what you can do with a little elbow grease, a hack saw, and a good quality blade. I've also used abrasive cutoff wheels mounted in a worm-drive circular saw. Then, of course, there's the chop saw. I don't have one, and a lot of people say they're way too messy. But they're very compact and they work.



GHarman, thanks for the tips on welding back to the start point. Your response cleared things up for me.



Now the next question - what do you guys watch when stick welding? I realized tonight that I tend to watch the arc. But I get the feeling it would be better to watch the puddle. I think I get better results when I pay closer attention to the puddle.



Ryan

 

[GHarman]

6010,6011

DJW, 6010 (Lincoln 5P+) Is widely used in industry especially pipeline. The old red 5P is long gone. The 6011 is still widely available. Your right about it requireing some moisture. It has a cellulose coating. GregH

 

[DJW]

THenningsen, depending on what one intends to cut, all those mentioned are a good choice, (all Quality tools are good), the 14 inch abrasive is a good choice regarding cost, also hard steels such as drill rod, spring steel and doubtful metals, can be cut with it, which will destroy a band saw blade, the metal cutting band saws from Harbor Freight are a good choice, cut up to wide and high structural shapes, plus varying degrees of angle cuts, a great help in fabricating. Plasma will cut any electric current carrying metal to a certain thickness, even if covered in thick paint, rust and scale etc. where as oxy-acy will not cut through scale and only ferrous metals. Each tool has it's own unique place in a workshop. If one decides to specialize on a particular product, only tools useful in that manufacture is needed. Sometimes putting a want ad. in a local newspaper or if there's a free shopper one can find a lot of unwanted tools, check prices of new before you decided to buy as many are priced at or above new. Welding shops and like industrial tool suppliers often take in older tools in trade, so there's a source. Off times a tool or machinery supplier has to take the old tool in to sell the new, so one deal may be in the works, I bought a used saw that way. Hope you find some thing suitable for your shop.

 

[GHarman]

Step 1: log onto TDR. Step 2: navigate to this thread. Step 3: hit "Post Reply". Seriously, what's the right answer?







Honestly, it's amazing what you can do with a little elbow grease, a hack saw, and a good quality blade. I've also used abrasive cutoff wheels mounted in a worm-drive circular saw. Then, of course, there's the chop saw. I don't have one, and a lot of people say they're way too messy. But they're very compact and they work.



GHarman, thanks for the tips on welding back to the start point. Your response cleared things up for me.



Now the next question - what do you guys watch when stick welding? I realized tonight that I tend to watch the arc. But I get the feeling it would be better to watch the puddle. I think I get better results when I pay closer attention to the puddle.



Ryan

Ryan, My response is that; 1. the sparks are giving you an idea that the base metal of the shaft is an alloy with a high carbon content. 2. Some basic experience with drivelines would confirm that the shaft is probably a Chrome Moly alloy. 3. Preheat and possibly a post heat required. 4. Low hydrogen filler metal required. At least 8018-9018. Coalsmoke suggests higher tensile strength rod. 5. Joint preparation, chisel shaped V-groove. Remove all obstructions to the auger. Temperature sticks are a real help. Preheat at least to 400*F. . Weld one side, bump it around if not accessable (After a post heat and cool down time) through the shrouding (requires a clear auger) and prep, preheat and weld the opposite side. Post weld heat treatment. An oxy-fuel torch with a rosebud or a Propane torch for pre-post-heats. Remember to strike the arc in the weld zone!!!! No orphan arc strikes on the shaft!!! There are many other issues that may enter into this equation, like the condition of the shaft and the amount of fatigue points in the vicinity of the break. Were you able to grind them all out? A Die penetrant test would show surface flaws. This is easy to administer in the field by the welder. Ignore the welding rod and the AC unit . Rent a DC machine if you dont have access to one



Ryan, ALWAYS WATCH THE PUDDLE, the arc is secondary. That way you can see when you are to hot and increase your travel speed or slow down for more penetration. The puddle is the indicator of what is going on. GregH

 

[Coalsmoke]

Now that I'm progressing in my welding, I am looking to start a few projects. Problem is that I have no way to cut anything. So..... tell me what you all recommend. I can't imagine that I would cut anything much larger than 2-3" square tubing and angle. That being said, will an abrasive chop saw do what I need or do I need to move up to a band saw? As always money is an issue as well as space. I know a decent band saw can run upwards of $1k, same for a plasma cutter. What should do I need to get to meet my basic fabrication needs?

An abrasive chop saw is a cheap, generally versatile tool that would probably fit your bill real well. I have one in my shop and use it more than any other cutting tool in my line-up because of its versatility. If you have some extra money and want to step up from the abrasive chop saw at the $150 level to a better chop saw at the $400 level, look at a carbide tipped dry cut saw, like this one Makita LC1230 12" Metal Cutting Saw They cut faster and cleaner than abrasive saws, but you do pay more for the saw and blade. The blade life is a null issue as you'll go through $75 worth of abrasive blades before this carbide one will need to be sharpened. Do not use these saws on stainless steel though. Bandsaws have their purpose, but I don't consider them a necessity for the general work I do. Also, it's what a person get accustomed to using. You can do a lot with a little if you can get creative.

 

[Coalsmoke]

GHarman, I thought 6011 went out with the Ark. In 1960 in a high pressure vessel shop, cleaning out the tool room someone found an old tin of 6010, he brought it in and some of the weldors had never even seen it, so were delighted to try, in most shops at that time it was called Splatter Rod, no kidding. Other than occasionally 5P, I've never used 6010 or 6011 since 1960 and then only for tacking. One time on a construction job I was told that their 6010 was giving them trouble, I asked where they kept it, the reply, "In the Oven where else?", I told them that kind of rod needed moisture in the coating, and got laughed out of the room by all assembled. Months later on another job one of those present at the time came to me and apologized for their ignorance. One time went for a job as a fitter also had to weld, took a welding test, (just appearance) all the rod except 7018 was in a heated cabinet, the 7018 was on the floor. Often one wonders how things hold together. I really enjoyed working in steel fabrication, in 1960s using stainless steel, one's overtime equaled your wages, and union wages at that, and they pretty well kissed the ground you walked on. Sadly most of those plants now in Japan or other countries in the East.

6010 is used still by the pallet load. I carried 6011 on my truck too, didn't use it often, but its a nice rod for when you want it. Goes through galvanized well on non code items. When putting in piling splices and anchor caps, nothing like running 5/32" 6010 in.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Step 1: log onto TDR. Step 2: navigate to this thread. Step 3: hit "Post Reply". Seriously, what's the right answer?







Honestly, it's amazing what you can do with a little elbow grease, a hack saw, and a good quality blade. I've also used abrasive cutoff wheels mounted in a worm-drive circular saw. Then, of course, there's the chop saw. I don't have one, and a lot of people say they're way too messy. But they're very compact and they work.



GHarman, thanks for the tips on welding back to the start point. Your response cleared things up for me.



Now the next question - what do you guys watch when stick welding? I realized tonight that I tend to watch the arc. But I get the feeling it would be better to watch the puddle. I think I get better results when I pay closer attention to the puddle.



Ryan

Ryan, I watch everything except the arc. Depending on the weld type, joint prep, etc, you tend to learn what to watch. Sometimes you've got to really stay engaged and focussed, like say in an overhead 7018 fillet, on pre-heated material, I'm really watching the toes of the puddle close to make sure that every bit of undercut is filled in and that I'm getting proper fusion on both pieces of parent material.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Ryan, My response is that; 1. the sparks are giving you an idea that the base metal of the shaft is an alloy with a high carbon content. 2. Some basic experience with drivelines would confirm that the shaft is probably a Chrome Moly alloy. 3. Preheat and possibly a post heat required. 4. Low hydrogen filler metal required. At least 8018-9018. Coalsmoke suggests higher tensile strength rod. 5. Joint preparation, chisel shaped V-groove. Remove all obstructions to the auger. Temperature sticks are a real help. Preheat at least to 400*F. . Weld one side, bump it around if not accessable (After a post heat and cool down time) through the shrouding (requires a clear auger) and prep, preheat and weld the opposite side. Post weld heat treatment. An oxy-fuel torch with a rosebud or a Propane torch for pre-post-heats. Remember to strike the arc in the weld zone!!!! No orphan arc strikes on the shaft!!! There are many other issues that may enter into this equation, like the condition of the shaft and the amount of fatigue points in the vicinity of the break. Were you able to grind them all out? A Die penetrant test would show surface flaws. This is easy to administer in the field by the welder. Ignore the welding rod and the AC unit . Rent a DC machine if you dont have access to one



Ryan, ALWAYS WATCH THE PUDDLE, the arc is secondary. That way you can see when you are to hot and increase your travel speed or slow down for more penetration. The puddle is the indicator of what is going on. GregH

Good answer. Especially the part about inspecting the component. Sometimes a localized repair is just not in the customers best long term interests.

 

[GHarman]

Ryan, I watch everything except the arc. Depending on the weld type, joint prep, etc, you tend to learn what to watch. Sometimes you've got to really stay engaged and focussed, like say in an overhead 7018 fillet, on pre-heated material, I'm really watching the toes of the puddle close to make sure that every bit of undercut is filled in and that I'm getting proper fusion on both pieces of parent material.

Ryan, This is a better description of the process. To keep from having undercut and slag inclusions, getting proper penetration and tie-in, you have to watch every indication of the puddle. This is the ART part of the welding process, the hand/eye coordination. You see, you react. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

I'm working on paying close attention to the puddle. Time and practice will teach me what a "good" puddle looks like.

Ryan

 

[DJW]

Frankly I'm puzzled between Ark and Puddle, when welding I watch each side of joint, space between, molten metal and deposited metal to form one pool, (married some call it) and finished surface of bead. Some can weld as if they were born for it, and sadly many can try as hard and best as they can, but never achieve the standard required for critical work. Something like an opera singer, can practice to improve performance to become a star, but have to have the voice a God given Gift to start with. Although only welding to certify for a number of tests, so that the job could be finished and leave the shop or yard I will state the following. It does take modest effort to design, draught, break down, layout, shear, cut, punch, roll, break, and do the necessary work to lead to assembly, assembling and tacking the whole thing together, but until it's been welded to meet existing codes, it's just that, an assembly. Weldors are often not appreciated for their natural skills and talent, example, "Have you finished yet? how long will it be? you are taking a long time over it, etc etc. " It has been argued if it's even a Trade, and in some labor unions of AFL, welders are paid at a lower rate, called a specialist and not journeyman, and for others just being able to read a tape they are considered of more value. What Talent does it take to read a tape? Granted I'd only take a welding job if working much overtime, high pay etc. or if welding was incidental to the main requirement of the work, but I am well aware of the skill and talent required to become an efficient weldor. Frankly I look on everything else as incidental, and welding the Skilled Portion.

 

[DValentine]

Well said DJW. I am one of those who was not granted with a God given gift.

Ryan, this may not be correct and Greg and other certainly correct me: take an egg and look at it from the side. Imagine the rod, what ever size you are using, covering the skinny part, or the top of the egg. The bottom of the egg the wider part is what "to me" a nice puddle looks like. It not too wide, not thin and drawn out.

Now all this is subject to change to some degree as to what you are welding on... . say overhead or vertical... . the puddle is still the puddle, but may look a little different depending on what you are doing. It still has a shape and will tell you if you need to slow down, or speed up or if you not tying in one side or the other. Looking at the arc will only tell you if you are long arcing or not. Different rods, and different flux coatings will burn and look a little different... . say 6010 or Inconel.

Does this help at all? If not I will try to come up with a different example.

Dave

 

[Coalsmoke]

Welding and operating excavators are too things that have come to me like a duck to water. I know it can be frustrating for others that don't pick it up as fast as I've seen it in both trades. Just have to work a bit more at it I guess. Now, ask me to build you a wooden kitchen table and you better go get the popcorn because comedy hour will have just begun.

 

[rbattelle]

take an egg and look at it from the side. Imagine the rod, what ever size you are using, covering the skinny part, or the top of the egg. The bottom of the egg the wider part is what "to me" a nice puddle looks like. It not too wide, not thin and drawn out.

Well put, Dave! Sounds good to me!



Ryan

 

[THenningsen]

what do you all know about the hobart 400 or miller 375 plasma cutters?